Religions and my opinion

[oso]

I want other people's opinions, just to see what the other sides arguement is, and i'll be referring to the major religions. by the way, i'm an atheist because i won't believe one thing until it can be proven, and it seems evolution is taking the lead.

I believe religion was set up to frighten people to not do anything wrong so everything would be more stable.. (like people wouldn't kill each other because they'd fear the consequences of going to hell or something for eternity)

so i'll bring up christianity because that's the religion i'm most familiar with, but i'm sure this can apply to many other religions.

so since there are maybe 2 billion people believing in christianity, does that mean 4.5 billion people are going to hell because they didn't accept jesus?

what if christianity WAS proven to be true...what happens to all of the ignorant people that didn't know any better? say for example, the slaves of the 1800s...the whites kept the blacks as ignorant as possible. I'm sure some of the whites never told them about religions, so the blacks made up a religion just to keep themselves sane everyday from the abuse. are they going to hell? is it so wrong for them to never be able to know that christianity was the 'true' religion so they must be punished forever for it?

My grandpa tried to convert me to christianity because he believed it was the true religion and he wanted to make sure i would be safe with god. he told me animals don't go to heaven or hell. i asked him why. he said because they can't...reason (i think). so it brought me to think, why are humans so special? we're just another animal too, we've just been able to control every other animal on this planet because of our tool making ability.

Not saying i would do any of these things but...I believe that if i killed another human, i wouldn't go to hell. what if i ate that other person too because i was dying of starvation and they were going to die no matter what? would that spotted hyena go to hell too? they cannibalize. So maybe your arguement is like my grandpas that they can't reason/think or whatever. what about aliens if you believe in them? what if they were twice as smart, would they go to heaven or hell?

These are just questions i've been thinking about and i just wanted to get them out. this is not to start a big arguement, but i just would like to know what the people that contradict me think.

EDIT: i'm also starting to believe governments play a major role with religions

Edited August 5, 2007 by oso

[Beckys_Mom]

Goverments only use religion as a smoke screen....nothing more

And you can ask yourself - What If..till you are blue in the face, cuz you will never know if its true or not...meaning for actual fact

Edited August 6, 2007 by Beckys_Mom

[sede-x-teh-bomb]

the problem i think here is that you are trying to question theistic way of thinking with rational human logic.

the two things are on different playing fields, you can not combine the two, they have a huge conflict of interest.

these forums prove you will not get a clear cut nor satisfying answer.

[Phyltre]

so since there are maybe 2 billion people believing in christianity, does that mean 4.5 billion people are going to hell because they didn't accept jesus?

what happens to all of the ignorant people that didn't know any better? say for example, the slaves of the 1800s...the whites kept the blacks as ignorant as possible. I'm sure some of the whites never told them about religions, so the blacks made up a religion just to keep themselves sane everyday from the abuse. are they going to hell? is it so wrong for them to never be able to know that christianity was the 'true' religion so they must be punished forever for it?

Jesus didn't come to earth to promote himself, he came to earth to promote a way of life and a way of thought. The farther along you get in the NT, the clearer it becomes that the writers are trying very hard to defend the fundamentals of their faith. The Christian message goes from "Love your enemies and neighbors" to "Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king."(Peter 2:16) I realize that I may be speaking against some more conservative Christians by saying this, but I see it is a dilution of Christ's message just as Christ says the Laws were diluted by Moses. I do not think either of these were the result of any great evil; rather, they were humans alive in a time when they were virtually forced to defend their faith against those who would pervert it, dilute it, or rewrite it entirely (as we know, historically, many groups attempted.) If you disagree with me on this, that's your right, I'm just offering my opinion that we shouldn't treat believers any different than nonbelievers, something the later NT seems to muddle.

Therefore I am uncertain that the exclusivist tendencies of the later books of the NT are, in fact, intended in Christ's message. In fact, I think the crux of the matter comes out in Luke 12.

"Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

Peter asked, "Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?"

The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

The last three sentences are the key. Some are given little opportunity; of them, little is expected. But others are given much opportunity; if they knowingly squander it, they will be punished for it. No one who could not have known the master's will is going to be treated the same as someone who knew it all along, and disobeyed. The exact depth and measure of the mechanism is up for debate, but that's how it's stated. I hope that answers at least part of your question.

[moonlit12]

I want other people's opinions, just to see what the other sides arguement is, and i'll be referring to the major religions. by the way, i'm an atheist because i won't believe one thing until it can be proven, and it seems evolution is taking the lead.

I believe religion was set up to frighten people to not do anything wrong so everything would be more stable.. (like people wouldn't kill each other because they'd fear the consequences of going to hell or something for eternity)

so i'll bring up christianity because that's the religion i'm most familiar with, but i'm sure this can apply to many other religions.

so since there are maybe 2 billion people believing in christianity, does that mean 4.5 billion people are going to hell because they didn't accept jesus?

what if christianity WAS proven to be true...what happens to all of the ignorant people that didn't know any better? say for example, the slaves of the 1800s...the whites kept the blacks as ignorant as possible. I'm sure some of the whites never told them about religions, so the blacks made up a religion just to keep themselves sane everyday from the abuse. are they going to hell? is it so wrong for them to never be able to know that christianity was the 'true' religion so they must be punished forever for it?

My grandpa tried to convert me to christianity because he believed it was the true religion and he wanted to make sure i would be safe with god. he told me animals don't go to heaven or hell. i asked him why. he said because they can't...reason (i think). so it brought me to think, why are humans so special? we're just another animal too, we've just been able to control every other animal on this planet because of our tool making ability.

Not saying i would do any of these things but...I believe that if i killed another human, i wouldn't go to hell. what if i ate that other person too because i was dying of starvation and they were going to die no matter what? would that spotted hyena go to hell too? they cannibalize. So maybe your arguement is like my grandpas that they can't reason/think or whatever. what about aliens if you believe in them? what if they were twice as smart, would they go to heaven or hell?

These are just questions i've been thinking about and i just wanted to get them out. this is not to start a big arguement, but i just would like to know what the people that contradict me think.

EDIT: i'm also starting to believe governments play a major role with religions

People who have no understanding of the Gospel message, or of who Jesus is - including children, the mentally disabled, the infirm, those who cannot understand, and anyone else God sees as not having sufficient understanding are not damned to HEll. He is clear in the Bible that it takes a person understanding and then responding to be judged for their decision, and those folks who cannot make an intentional, heartfelt, intelligent decision for Christ are not sentenced to Hell just because they cannot get it. I know that noone can say who is or isn't going to Heaven or Hell becuz God did not give us the capacity to see into each others hearts. For me, this means that even the staunchest atheist can go to Heaven, and even the most faithful christian can go to Hell. I don't understand the why some people say that anyone who dies without knowing Jesus are eternally damned becuz the Bible is clear on this.

Secondly, I am convinced that animals do go to Heaven because God made them in the first place and He said they were "good", so why would He reject them? We will forever know and care for His creation.

Lastly, you ask questions that I am sure noone can answer sufficiently for you. There are some things that we will never know - but the Bible says that each of us should be convinced in our own minds so if you cannot answer a question I think God finds it acceptable for us to say we just don't know. It's better than trying to add things or subtract things from the BIble.

[randomhit10]

I want other people's opinions, just to see what the other sides arguement is, and i'll be referring to the major religions. by the way, i'm an atheist because i won't believe one thing until it can be proven, and it seems evolution is taking the lead.

I believe religion was set up to frighten people to not do anything wrong so everything would be more stable.. (like people wouldn't kill each other because they'd fear the consequences of going to hell or something for eternity)

so i'll bring up christianity because that's the religion i'm most familiar with, but i'm sure this can apply to many other religions.

so since there are maybe 2 billion people believing in christianity, does that mean 4.5 billion people are going to hell because they didn't accept jesus?

what if christianity WAS proven to be true...what happens to all of the ignorant people that didn't know any better? say for example, the slaves of the 1800s...the whites kept the blacks as ignorant as possible. I'm sure some of the whites never told them about religions, so the blacks made up a religion just to keep themselves sane everyday from the abuse. are they going to hell? is it so wrong for them to never be able to know that christianity was the 'true' religion so they must be punished forever for it?

My grandpa tried to convert me to christianity because he believed it was the true religion and he wanted to make sure i would be safe with god. he told me animals don't go to heaven or hell. i asked him why. he said because they can't...reason (i think). so it brought me to think, why are humans so special? we're just another animal too, we've just been able to control every other animal on this planet because of our tool making ability.

Not saying i would do any of these things but...I believe that if i killed another human, i wouldn't go to hell. what if i ate that other person too because i was dying of starvation and they were going to die no matter what? would that spotted hyena go to hell too? they cannibalize. So maybe your arguement is like my grandpas that they can't reason/think or whatever. what about aliens if you believe in them? what if they were twice as smart, would they go to heaven or hell?

These are just questions i've been thinking about and i just wanted to get them out. this is not to start a big arguement, but i just would like to know what the people that contradict me think.

EDIT: i'm also starting to believe governments play a major role with religions

these are all good questions....

religion doesn't frighten me...God has not given us a spirit of fear...we allow man's manipulations to cause us fear....Christianity is also where most of my knowledge comes..

as far as going to hell, the Bible (KJV is the one i use) states that you must have a personal relationship with Jesus and accept the gift of eternal life through Him by acknowledging Him as the Son of God who shed His Blood for our sins that we may be made clean (sin free).

will everyone who doesn't know Him go to hell?...no, i do not believe so...i believe everyone who has not heard the Gospel will be given ample opportunity to hear and will either accept or deny the Gift the Jesus offers....

as for animals, i believe that God has a place for them and it may be Heaven...certainly the sacrifical animals should because they were more righteous than the people who sacrificed them...they also obeyed the Will of God as that purpose they were created...

if you go to hell, knowing and having access to the information you have, then it will be by your choice...you can be forgiven sins by humbling yourself before God and asking for forgiveness with a repenting heart...Jesus already paid for your sins so you could have this forgiveness by Grace...

governments do what ever serves their best interest...they want you to believe that they care what happens to you and there may be a few people, who get through the system, who cares but most are eventually corrupted and become self serving...

i do not know about aliens...i guess if they come here they can be saved the same way we are...by Grace.

randomhit10

Edited August 6, 2007 by randomhit10

[Bella-Angelique]

Just looking at one religion causes too much tunnel vision. Looking at the planet as a whole and how people documented sightings of spirits and how they tried to make sense of it might be a better path for an atheist to investigate than tracking the history of one single religious view.

The bottom line of religions are after all, a belief in the existence of spirits and how the behavior of the living causes effects on an inner existence that is immortal.

Despite the power of priesthoods through history, the true seat of power was always that of the kings so thinking religion was invented just for controlling a populace would be inaccurate. Real control of people has always been done through violence and the control of resources.

[momentarylapseofreason]

Many animals have the intelligence and feelings of small children-they deserve respect and ethical treatment from us to be sure.

Edited August 8, 2007 by momentarylapseofreason

[Bella-Angelique]

Many animals have the intelligence and feelings of small children-they deserve respect and ethical treatment from us to be sure.

Yes, we are the angels and the demons of the animal world, their gods that walk the earth.

[Spyda]

I want other people's opinions, just to see what the other sides arguement is, and i'll be referring to the major religions. by the way, i'm an atheist because i won't believe one thing until it can be proven, and it seems evolution is taking the lead.

I believe religion was set up to frighten people to not do anything wrong so everything would be more stable.. (like people wouldn't kill each other because they'd fear the consequences of going to hell or something for eternity)

so i'll bring up christianity because that's the religion i'm most familiar with, but i'm sure this can apply to many other religions.

so since there are maybe 2 billion people believing in christianity, does that mean 4.5 billion people are going to hell because they didn't accept jesus?

what if christianity WAS proven to be true...what happens to all of the ignorant people that didn't know any better? say for example, the slaves of the 1800s...the whites kept the blacks as ignorant as possible. I'm sure some of the whites never told them about religions, so the blacks made up a religion just to keep themselves sane everyday from the abuse. are they going to hell? is it so wrong for them to never be able to know that christianity was the 'true' religion so they must be punished forever for it?

My grandpa tried to convert me to christianity because he believed it was the true religion and he wanted to make sure i would be safe with god. he told me animals don't go to heaven or hell. i asked him why. he said because they can't...reason (i think). so it brought me to think, why are humans so special? we're just another animal too, we've just been able to control every other animal on this planet because of our tool making ability.

Not saying i would do any of these things but...I believe that if i killed another human, i wouldn't go to hell. what if i ate that other person too because i was dying of starvation and they were going to die no matter what? would that spotted hyena go to hell too? they cannibalize. So maybe your arguement is like my grandpas that they can't reason/think or whatever. what about aliens if you believe in them? what if they were twice as smart, would they go to heaven or hell?

These are just questions i've been thinking about and i just wanted to get them out. this is not to start a big arguement, but i just would like to know what the people that contradict me think.

EDIT: i'm also starting to believe governments play a major role with religions

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