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Is Jesus the Messiah?


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#211    TheKnight

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 10:37 PM

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I think I'm gonna stop going through each and every verse given, as you can tell they are not very reliable.  I suggest you guys research this passages in context to understand what it is speaking of because I'm not going to go through every verse.

I think that'd be wise. Many of the Christians who have posted haven't posted accurately at all.

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LOL the kid changes his stance on god ALMOST as quickly as he changes screen names.  But he is a youth, and they are well noted for their fickle nature.

How on Earth do you get that idea? My stance only changed recently because of evidence combined with my experiences with HaShem for the last few months. The last couple months God has been pressing me to look into this Jesus and I never had the time to until recently. I looked into it and came to find that Jesus isn't the Messiah. Aside from that I have NEVER changed my stance before, unless you count going from hating God out of spite, to loving God out of reverance/thanks a change. In fact, when I think about it, I would say I haven't changed at all because 1. I never had all that much faith in Jesus and 2. I still follow the same HaShem I followed before I left the god-man behind. In fact, you'll find few posts made my Child-of-Israel concerning Jesus. The vast majority of them are about God and if Jesus is mentioned he's a side note. I can promise you this though, never again shall the name Jesus come from my mouth or the typing of my fingers in a positive Light. I have and do take blasphemy very seriously. Jesus, like Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda, is no where in my book as being the Messiah.


#212    JMPD1

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 10:44 PM

Just a reminder of who you were:

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QUOTE(Knight of Zion (COI) @ Apr 17 2007, 12:00 AM)

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QUOTE(Zero of Deism @ Apr 16 2007, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was a Christian for almost 18 years, to say I did not think the same way as you at one point would border on silliness.


You never thought as I do, if you did you wouldn't be where you are now spiritually.


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QUOTE(Knight of Zion (COI) @ Apr 16 2007, 11:17 PM)
In your opinion yes. Was your heart in the right place when you sought God? Did you love him? Why were you in it? What were you doing it for? How were you doing it? You have probably heard these questions, but God doesn't abandon a seeking soul. I doubt it was only due to validity, if you lost faith because of validity than IMO you didn't have faith in the first place...just ritual.....probably a result of the CBDIM.




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#213    moonlit12

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 10:51 PM

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I understand it fine and well, and as far as God is concerned his throne is occupied solely by him. Not some man who told people to stop following his Laws. If anything, Jesus deserved his crucifixion.


I am tired of your bellyaching.  If you don't want to believe that Jesus is the Messiah - fine... but don't go around making these statements about Jesus deserving to be crucified unless you desire others to start making judgements about what you deserve.
I have hoped you would get a clear understanding of what you were looking for and at this point you sound more interested in the fight than in the search and I am sure no one is interested in a struggle of wills with you.
Of all the things you have proven in this thread the most apparent is that you are angrier than when you began this topic, and of all the things that I think a person would feel after finding "truth", I would think anger would be the last.  
Bottom line - it is time to stop taking out your frustrations on us.

Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in everything

#214    TheKnight

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 10:51 PM

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Just a reminder of who you were:
You never thought as I do, if you did you wouldn't be where you are now spiritually.

I remember saying those things, and what was I speaking of? God. Not necessarily Jesus. In any case, what I said would still be true because as I have said already this thread, I never truly believed in the Jesus man.


#215    moonlit12

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 10:52 PM

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I think that'd be wise. Many of the Christians who have posted haven't posted accurately at all.
How on Earth do you get that idea? My stance only changed recently because of evidence combined with my experiences with HaShem for the last few months. The last couple months God has been pressing me to look into this Jesus and I never had the time to until recently. I looked into it and came to find that Jesus isn't the Messiah. Aside from that I have NEVER changed my stance before, unless you count going from hating God out of spite, to loving God out of reverance/thanks a change. In fact, when I think about it, I would say I haven't changed at all because 1. I never had all that much faith in Jesus and 2. I still follow the same HaShem I followed before I left the god-man behind. In fact, you'll find few posts made my Child-of-Israel concerning Jesus. The vast majority of them are about God and if Jesus is mentioned he's a side note. I can promise you this though, never again shall the name Jesus come from my mouth or the typing of my fingers in a positive Light. I have and do take blasphemy very seriously. Jesus, like Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda, is no where in my book as being the Messiah.


If you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all. Please.

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#216    Manananggal

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 10:55 PM

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I understand it fine and well, and as far as God is concerned his throne is occupied solely by him. Not some man who told people to stop following his Laws. If anything, Jesus deserved his crucifixion.

So, what do YOU deserve, according to your laws?

I understand, I just don't care.

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#217    moonlit12

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 10:56 PM

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So, what do YOU deserve, according to your laws?


I tried to warn you...  hmm.gif

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#218    TheKnight

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 11:04 PM

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So, what do YOU deserve, according to your laws?

Well, if I am diligent in my following of the 7 Noachide laws, than I shall be given a place in the world to come to exist eternally with HaShem. Nothing overall has changed about my beliefs in God with the exception of Jesus. Everything else is the same. As I have said, and always will say, Salvation comes to those who desire HaShem. If you want HaShem, seek HaShem, love HaShem, and relate with him, you too will have a place in the world to come. What is God's plan? What is his desire? Love. God intended love, and he wants our love. We love him, we get to be with him, we don't love him, we don't get to be with him. Some Jews feel that we are rewarded in heaven, I believe that merely being with God is reward enough. The action (just like in Christianity) matters not, it is the heart which matters and whom your heart chooses that determines your dwelling place. A Rabbi put it this way.

Rabbi: "I once met a man who was going to convert to Judaism. However, he had a problem. He LOVED Lobster. The Torah tells us that we shouldn't eat lobster. Now for me (The Rabbi) refraining from eating lobster is ok because I don't like Lobster, but for the man who loves Lobster, he shall be rewarded because he chose HaShem over himself."


The whole point of the Law, is to see whom you choose. God or yourself. God doesn't care so much about what you do, it's WHY you do it. When a shellfish lover refrains from eating shellfish because he says in his heart "HaShem I love you more than shellfish" he has shown great love and this is where we find righteousness in Judaism/Chassidius. It's not about the actual action, it's about whether or not you love HaShem. This is the point and purpose of the Law. It is to show we love God more than us. What do I deserve? I deserve judgment, but because of my devotion and love to HaShem, I receive HaShem, and it is a joy.


#219    Manananggal

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 11:11 PM

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Well, if I am diligent in my following of the 7 Noachide laws, than I shall be given a place in the world to come to exist eternally with HaShem.


And if you're not.....  huh.gif

I see. Thanks for answering. Well, you better cross all your fingers that you never have a bad day. Wouldn't want being human and imperfect and completely unable to fulfill the laws by yourself, to take away from your self-righteousness. Might want to cross your toes, too. Good luck. I'm rootin for ya! (Don't make any mistakes, now)

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#220    JMPD1

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 11:29 PM

The Seven Laws:

1 - Do not worship idols;
2 - Do not blaspheme;
3 - Do not murder;
4 - Do not have forbidden relations;
5 - Do not steal;
6 - Do not eat flesh taken from a living animal; and
7 - Do not forsake the creation of courts and laws to enforce these


Don't really have a problem with 1,2,3,4,5, and 7, but #6?
Well, I guess I'm destined for someplace warmer

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#221    TheKnight

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 11:49 PM

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And if you're not.....  huh.gif

I see. Thanks for answering. Well, you better cross all your fingers that you never have a bad day. Wouldn't want being human and imperfect and completely unable to fulfill the laws by yourself, to take away from your self-righteousness. Might want to cross your toes, too. Good luck. I'm rootin for ya! (Don't make any mistakes, now)

I don't have to be perfect, I have to love HaShem. Didn't you read the post?


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The Seven Laws:

1 - Do not worship idols;
2 - Do not blaspheme;
3 - Do not murder;
4 - Do not have forbidden relations;
5 - Do not steal;
6 - Do not eat flesh taken from a living animal; and
7 - Do not forsake the creation of courts and laws to enforce these
Don't really have a problem with 1,2,3,4,5, and 7, but #6?
Well, I guess I'm destined for someplace warmer

Lol. It says from a living animal. Which means, don't treat animals uncruelly. If you take meat from a living animal you have mistreated it. In America we call that Animal cruelty. If you gut the cow and get your hamburger meat while the cow is alive and kicking, then you have broken number 6. When you eat meat from an animal that is dead, then you have not broken it. The law means basically, don't get your chicken wing from the chicken if the chicken is still alive. Kill it first, then get your meat. Don't torture it. Besides breaking the law isn't the problem, it's not loving HaShem. From the words of the deceiver Jesus "If you love me you will keep my commands. If you break them, than you do not love me." If in a fit of fury I murder a man, than I have in that moment chosen to serve myself and not HaShem.

Edited by Knight of Zion (COI), 11 August 2007 - 11:51 PM.


#222    Radian

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 11:53 PM

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Well said ????He hasn't said anything ,he's only posted a page full of biblical quotes
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#223    moonlit12

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 11:53 PM

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I don't have to be perfect, I have to love HaShem. Didn't you read the post?
Lol. It says from a living animal. Which means, don't treat animals uncruelly. If you take meat from a living animal you have mistreated it. In America we call that Animal cruelty. If you gut the cow and get your hamburger meat while the cow is alive and kicking, then you have broken number 6. When you eat meat from an animal that is dead, then you have not broken it. The law means basically, don't get your chicken wing from the chicken if the chicken is still alive. Kill it first, then get your meat. Don't torture it. Besides breaking the law isn't the problem, it's not loving HaShem. From the words of the deceiver Jesus "If you love me you will keep my commands. If you break them, than you do not love me." If in a fit of fury I murder a man, than I have in that moment chosen to serve myself and not HaShem.


Doesn't leave much room for grace does it?

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#224    Manananggal

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 12:02 AM

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Well, if I am diligent in my following of the 7 Noachide laws, than I shall be given a place in the world to come to exist eternally with HaShem.



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And if you're not.....  huh.gif



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I don't have to be perfect, I have to love HaShem. Didn't you read the post?


Yes, I read the post. My first question here was in response to your statement that IF you are diligent about following the laws, you will have a place with God. I asked, basically, what happens if you are NOT diligent (i.e. have a day where you are less than perfect and don't follow one of the laws, failure here is certain it's just a matter of time, none is perfect being the thought behind my question). I wasn't asking if you  have to be perfect, I was asking what happens when you don't follow the laws. I am sorry if I did not make my point clear. So, do you have to follow the laws to get your righteousness, or do you just have to love God, which is it? Is following the laws hit-and-miss ok, I mean it's all going to come out in the wash and as long as you love God and try to put him first most of the time everything's good and you can be with him for eternity?

Which is it, now? Do you have to follow the laws to gain righteousness, or not?


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#225    Manananggal

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 12:05 AM

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Doesn't leave much room for grace does it?

Maybe the grace comes in when God sees how much Knight loves him and how good Knight is for showing it, and so rewards him for his deeds because he was so good to follow the laws and show his love for God?

Is that accurate, or close, Knight? Or are you saying that the laws have taken the place that Jesus used to take for you? God grants grace to you through your observance of the laws, whereas you used to believe, or at least say, that Jesus was the way that grace came through? God is surely not obligated to reward your righteousness in observing laws. Do  you see it as your choice, like Christians see the choice of accepting Jesus as the means through which grace comes?

Edited by Manananggal, 12 August 2007 - 12:07 AM.

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"Those to whom the impossible has happened are forever vulnerable; the impossible may happen again at any time." - Norah Lofts, The Haunting of Gad's Hall




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