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evolution vs. creationism


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#331    KllrKlsm

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 01:41 AM

Well, we certainly see eye to eye on many things. I'm not Holier than thou just Passionate. I don't mind debating skeptic's sometimes, often times they are more reasonable than christians. Like I said, it took me nearly a week working 5 hours a day to find these sources. I don't have to necessarily agree with everything that is said in them to cite them. Please send me the sources to djdniners@yahoo.com. It makes it very difficult to know where some one is coming from without it. Not that I have totally, sized you up yet, or that you have a clue to all that I intend. What are your thoughts on Troys fall, and the migration of there descendants in relation to the Exodus? Thats rhetorical and you need not answer. Like I said this is off the subject. I just mentioned Velikovsky because, some of the work he did was justified, not that the premise or conclusion he drew for his beliefs was correct. As far as relating myth to history in some respects Velikovsky was a revolutionary, and some of his best work. Earth in Uphevel was him trying to take physical science facts alone, (Not his subject of study) and prove his theories. Anyways his relating Amalek to the Hyksos was a very good premise also, and a very workable one. Despite objections the old man came up with a few remarkable findings in his research. Though the most skeptical of his critics try to renounce it as generalizations.

http://www.varchive.org/ce/jupiter.htm
Since 1941, velikovsky insisted that electromagnetic interrelations in the solar system cannot be ignored - this was the theme of my long debate, in writing and oral, with Einstein - from August 1952 to his death in April of 1955. At some point in our debate (in a letter written in June 1954) I offered to stake our debate on whether Jupiter sends out radio noises, to which he reacted skeptically, yet was greatly surprised when nine days before his death I brought to him the news (New York Times of April 6, 1955) that such radio noises were accidentally detected.

Thanx for the advice and conversion, KillCarneyKlansmen.


#332    Doug1o29

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 04:58 PM

Quote

Well, we certainly see eye to eye on many things. I'm not Holier than thou just Passionate. I don't mind debating skeptic's sometimes, often times they are more reasonable than christians. Like I said, it took me nearly a week working 5 hours a day to find these sources. I don't have to necessarily agree with everything that is said in them to cite them. Please send me the sources to djdniners@yahoo.com. It makes it very difficult to know where some one is coming from without it. Not that I have totally, sized you up yet, or that you have a clue to all that I intend. What are your thoughts on Troys fall, and the migration of there descendants in relation to the Exodus? Thats rhetorical and you need not answer. Like I said this is off the subject. I just mentioned Velikovsky because, some of the work he did was justified, not that the premise or conclusion he drew for his beliefs was correct. As far as relating myth to history in some respects Velikovsky was a revolutionary, and some of his best work. Earth in Uphevel was him trying to take physical science facts alone, (Not his subject of study) and prove his theories. Anyways his relating Amalek to the Hyksos was a very good premise also, and a very workable one. Despite objections the old man came up with a few remarkable findings in his research. Though the most skeptical of his critics try to renounce it as generalizations.

http://www.varchive.org/ce/jupiter.htm
Since 1941, velikovsky insisted that electromagnetic interrelations in the solar system cannot be ignored - this was the theme of my long debate, in writing and oral, with Einstein - from August 1952 to his death in April of 1955. At some point in our debate (in a letter written in June 1954) I offered to stake our debate on whether Jupiter sends out radio noises, to which he reacted skeptically, yet was greatly surprised when nine days before his death I brought to him the news (New York Times of April 6, 1955) that such radio noises were accidentally detected.

Thanx for the advice and conversion, KillCarneyKlansmen.


I'll send you my sources.  It will take awhile to relocate them and then awhile more to type them in.
Plan B:  I have the entire (uneditted) list of sources on disk.  Can I just e-mail the whole bunch?

As for Troy:  I don't have any thoughts on that.  I haven't read enough to form opinions.  One can only do so much and that is a little lower on my priority list.  I would appreciate hearing your comments, though.

I believe the Asiatics (The term "Hyksos" properly applies only to their kings.) were an amalgamation of Semitic tribes.  When they were expelled from Egypt, they went back to their homelands, or settled elsewhere.  I suspect the "Hebrews" were habiru, a term meaning something like "bandit" and formed from pieces of other tribes sometime after the events we call the Exodus.

FYI:  I am trying to develop a mathematical model of sunspot activity to test against the North Atlantic Oscillation and weather patterns in the American southeast.  I think there's a connection.  So maybe Velikovsky and I accidently agreed on something.

I believe you asked what my linguistic qualifications were:  I don't have any.  Well, that's not completely true.  Linguistics is a hobby and I am surrounded by multi-lingual people.  My grandmother, mother, sister and nephew are all fluent in English and Finnish.  My daughter is fluent in English and Russian, reads French and has a smattering of Finnish.  I am fluent in English, read Spanish and speak a smattering of Finnish and Gaelic.  My first cousin is fluent in English, French, Latin, German and reads a form of medieval French (She's a medieval historian.).  In my church is a man fluent in English and Hebrew (He's a pulmonologist and one of my sources.) and a woman who speaks English, French, German and Latin.  Down the hall from me is a man fluent in Turkish (English is his second language.) and across the parking lot is a woman who speaks both English and Spanish like a native (She's Colombian.).  My pipe teacher speaks English and Gaelic and two or three times a year I get to meet people who speak both English and Gaelic.  Last July I went to the American Finnfest and, to my surprise, found I could understand Finglish (Can't speak it, though.)!

I have to rely for most translations on standard language-to-language dictionaries and what other people have written.

My life-long goal is to become truly educated.  That includes history, math, science, art, music, literature and religion.  My research into Moses is part of that.  I also play the bagpipe (Grade 3), make hooked rugs (Seeing as I can't paint.) and have advanced degrees in biometrics (math/statistics) and forestry.  My historical interests are the American Civil War, the War of 1812, the Thirty Years War, Moses/Exodus and the Dark Ages in Britain.

I contend that much of what the Bible contains is historical and verifiable, but some of it is myth and/or legend.  What amazes me is not that there are mistakes (Ever write a 1500-page book without any?) but that there are so few.  Understanding what underpins creation does not lessen one's appreciation of it, but only increases the awe.

Doug


If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#333    camlax

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 05:47 PM

Quote

I contend that much of what the Bible contains is historical and verifiable, but some of it is myth and/or legend.  What amazes me is not that there are mistakes (Ever write a 1500-page book without any?) but that there are so few.  Understanding what underpins creation does not lessen one's appreciation of it, but only increases the awe.
Doug



I have to respectfully disagree here with you Doug. I do not think that some historical accuracy in the bible adds any credibility to god in the bible. If I were to write a book of the happenings of the last 200 years it would be fairly accurate (also one must take into account the world then was "smaller" than it is now).

I don't think social and political awareness adds to credibility on supernatural entities. If you look back through history, I think people are often surprised by the amount of awareness commoners or slaves have. This served a more important purpose other than educational. Social and political awareness was part of the survival game then as much as it is in some parts of the world now. When mastodons fight, grass gets trampled.

Of course many historical accounts are exaggerated into myth and legend. That is something that occurs in all human societies. I think if you were to talk to a folklorist they would tell you most folklores are loosely based upon once real events. Knowing that I think only further shows that supernatural accounts in the bible fall in the same place as "dead" religions, Mythology.

Edited by camlax, 10 September 2007 - 05:47 PM.

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It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.
Could you please relay that message to your inner voice?"
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#334    KllrKlsm

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:12 PM

Quote

Can I just e-mail the whole bunch?


Yes

Quote

As for Troy:


NP

Quote

I believe the Asiatics (The term "Hyksos" properly applies only to their kings.) were an amalgamation of Semitic tribes. When they were expelled from Egypt, they went back to their homelands, or settled elsewhere. I suspect the "Hebrews" were habiru, a term meaning something like "bandit" and formed from pieces of other tribes sometime after the events we call the Exodus.


Agreed, Troy was a semi confederated state of hittites, maybe 1 reason for break down.

Quote

sunspot activity


Yes verifiablity

Quote

I have to rely for most translations on standard language-to-language dictionaries and what other people have written.


Me too. Language is neet, but I'm poor at it, just reference it. But the hebrew, chaldee, greek, and aramaic tend to put alot emphasis on the meaning of words. Verb based, figures of speech, allegory, etc ...

QUOTE
educated


Yes, it seams so. Outstanding!

QUOTE
I contend that much of what the Bible contains is historical and verifiable, but some of it is myth and/or legend. What amazes me is not that there are mistakes (Ever write a 1500-page book without any?) but that there are so few. Understanding what underpins creation does not lessen one's appreciation of it, but only increases the awe.


Agreed, good to hear.

Edited by KllrKlsm, 10 September 2007 - 09:13 PM.


#335    Doug1o29

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 02:04 PM

Quote

I have to respectfully disagree here with you Doug. I do not think that some historical accuracy in the bible adds any credibility to god in the bible. If I were to write a book of the happenings of the last 200 years it would be fairly accurate (also one must take into account the world then was "smaller" than it is now).

I don't think social and political awareness adds to credibility on supernatural entities. If you look back through history, I think people are often surprised by the amount of awareness commoners or slaves have. This served a more important purpose other than educational. Social and political awareness was part of the survival game then as much as it is in some parts of the world now. When mastodons fight, grass gets trampled.

Of course many historical accounts are exaggerated into myth and legend. That is something that occurs in all human societies. I think if you were to talk to a folklorist they would tell you most folklores are loosely based upon once real events. Knowing that I think only further shows that supernatural accounts in the bible fall in the same place as "dead" religions, Mythology.


You "disagree" with me, then reiterate my own thoughts.  So where's the disagreement?

Maybe a few biblical examples:  It turns out that "Ramses" from the Exodus story is nearly a perfect match for Avaris/Piramesse.  Succoth/Tjeku matches up well with Tell el Maskutah.  Pithom matches up well with Merneptah's Fort at the east end of the now-defunct Lake Kemuera.  Marrah was probably Ayn Musa and Elim was probably the ruin Aeolim in Wadi Gharandel.  That part is historical.

But just which Pharaoh's army was destroyed at the Red Sea Crossing?  There's no confirmation of that, so it has to be regarded as myth.  Part of the Exodus story MIGHT be a reflection of events of the late 18th/early 19th Dynasties, BUT Horemheb was dead already, so the Pharaoh of the Red Sea wasn't him.  Seti survived and reigned for another 20 years, so it wasn't him.  That leaves Ramses I and we have his mummy:  he died from an ear infection, so it wasn't him.  We're out of Pharaohs.  The same problem occurs with any other potential Exodus:  all the possible Pharaohs survived, so we're down to speculating about which prince might have been killed.

But there is a caveat:  the topography of the Bitter Lakes basin would permit a southeast wind to blow the narrows free of water while that same wind produced a surge wave travelling up Tiah Beni-Israel from the Red Sea.  I think SOMEBODY either suffered a disaster there, or saw the waves converging and made up the rest.

Egyptian mining expeditions/work details were accompanied by a military wing that both served to protect the expedition and enforce directives.  One can imagine there was no love lost between the wings.  The military wing probably camped separately from the rest (You don't socialize with people you might have to kill [unless your name is Campbell]).  If a military wing crossed the channel after the main body and got caught in mid-channel by the surge waves, we would have the basis of a legend.  Many such expeditions traveled this route, so it is quite likely that some of them observed the surge wave phenomenon and completely possible that a group got caught by the waves.  This, of course, is speculation, but the topography exists today and the surge waves still occur; though, their impact is lessened by the Suez Canal.  At least, this version makes more sense than Rohl's super-sonic wind and jet-pack wearing sheep, or the fanciful version more-or-less recounted in the Bible.

So what do we have?  A bunch of historical locations, a topography that makes a version of the story possible, no missing Pharaohs and a lack of corroboration.  In other words:  a mix of history and myth.  And by definition, that makes the story of the Exodus a legend.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#336    camlax

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 04:15 PM

Quote

You "disagree" with me, then reiterate my own thoughts.  So where's the disagreement?

Maybe a few biblical examples:  It turns out that "Ramses" from the Exodus story is nearly a perfect match for Avaris/Piramesse.  Succoth/Tjeku matches up well with Tell el Maskutah.  Pithom matches up well with Merneptah's Fort at the east end of the now-defunct Lake Kemuera.  Marrah was probably Ayn Musa and Elim was probably the ruin Aeolim in Wadi Gharandel.  That part is historical.

But just which Pharaoh's army was destroyed at the Red Sea Crossing?  There's no confirmation of that, so it has to be regarded as myth.  Part of the Exodus story MIGHT be a reflection of events of the late 18th/early 19th Dynasties, BUT Horemheb was dead already, so the Pharaoh of the Red Sea wasn't him.  Seti survived and reigned for another 20 years, so it wasn't him.  That leaves Ramses I and we have his mummy:  he died from an ear infection, so it wasn't him.  We're out of Pharaohs.  The same problem occurs with any other potential Exodus:  all the possible Pharaohs survived, so we're down to speculating about which prince might have been killed.

But there is a caveat:  the topography of the Bitter Lakes basin would permit a southeast wind to blow the narrows free of water while that same wind produced a surge wave travelling up Tiah Beni-Israel from the Red Sea.  I think SOMEBODY either suffered a disaster there, or saw the waves converging and made up the rest.

Egyptian mining expeditions/work details were accompanied by a military wing that both served to protect the expedition and enforce directives.  One can imagine there was no love lost between the wings.  The military wing probably camped separately from the rest (You don't socialize with people you might have to kill [unless your name is Campbell]).  If a military wing crossed the channel after the main body and got caught in mid-channel by the surge waves, we would have the basis of a legend.  Many such expeditions traveled this route, so it is quite likely that some of them observed the surge wave phenomenon and completely possible that a group got caught by the waves.  This, of course, is speculation, but the topography exists today and the surge waves still occur; though, their impact is lessened by the Suez Canal.  At least, this version makes more sense than Rohl's super-sonic wind and jet-pack wearing sheep, or the fanciful version more-or-less recounted in the Bible.

So what do we have?  A bunch of historical locations, a topography that makes a version of the story possible, no missing Pharaohs and a lack of corroboration.  In other words:  a mix of history and myth.  And by definition, that makes the story of the Exodus a legend.
Doug


I read your original thought in the wrong context, my apologies. I thought you were implying some historical in the bible lends credence for supernatural support. Rereading your post I realize this was not your intention, I was tired when I originally read it.


"Sorry, but my inner voice tells me to tell your inner voice the following:
It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.
Could you please relay that message to your inner voice?"
~Harte

"Imagination without knowledge is Ignorance waiting to happen."

#337    Doug1o29

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Posted 11 September 2007 - 07:26 PM

Quote

I read your original thought in the wrong context, my apologies. I thought you were implying some historical in the bible lends credence for supernatural support. Rereading your post I realize this was not your intention, I was tired when I originally read it.


Apology accepted.  Thank you.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#338    Doug1o29

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 01:24 PM

Quote

Me too. Language is neet, but I'm poor at it, just reference it. But the hebrew, chaldee, greek, and aramaic tend to put alot emphasis on the meaning of words. Verb based, figures of speech, allegory, etc ...


That's how I trace names - by meaning.  If two words had the same meaning, then they potentially refer to the same place, even if they don't sound the same.  Especially in Sinai, there are a lot of situations where a person writing in one language tried to capture the sound of a name that was in another language.  The result makes little sense in the second language, but can be translated in the original - the problem:  the name is usually misspelled.

Then there are names like Kadesh/kadus that means "Desert" in Hebrew and a stone watering trough in Arabic.  What is the name referring to?

Anyway, I will now try to add a copy of my (current) bibliography.  I deleted two references to websites that are no longer operable.  In addition, there are three more that I haven't finished reading yet.  Hope this works:
Doug


Aharoni, Yohanan and A.F. Rainey (Ed. and Tr.).  1979.  The land of the Bible:  a historical geography, revised and enlarged edition.  Westminster Press.  Philadelphia.

Aharoni, Yohanan.  Michael Avi-Yonah, Anson Rainey and Ze-ev Safri.  1993.  The penetration into Transjordan.  The MacMillan Bible Atlas.  MacMillan Publishing Company, New York.  p. 48.

Ahrens, John.  n.d.  The Tao of Apuuli.  http://members.aol.com/TAOofAPU/maat.htm.  4 May 2004.

Airplane, Lady Be Good.  2005.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Be_Good, 21 October 2005.

Aldred, Cyril.  1988.  Akhenaten, king of Egypt. Thames and Hudson, London.

Andrews, Mark.  2005.  Marriage in ancient Egypt.  TourEgypt, InterCity Oz, Inc., http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/marriage.htm, 13 December 2005.

Anati, Emmanuel.  2001.  Mount Sinai has been found:  the riddle of Mount Sinai discoveries at Har Karkom.  Har Karkom Archeological Survey.  http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Anati_Mount_Sinai.htm, 28 October 2004.

The Auk:  a quarterly journal of ornithology 32(3).  July 1915.  p. 280.

Baker, Vic.  1995.  Joseph Thomas Pardee and the Spokane Flood controversy.  GSA Today 5(9).  http://gsahist.org/gsat2/pardee.htm, 28 October 2004.

Barton, George A.  1920.  Archeology and the Bible, 3rd Ed.  Philadelphia: American Sunday-School Union.  p. 310.  http://ragz-international.com/legend_of_sargon.htm, 27 April 2004.

BASE Institute.  2002.  What was the Wilderness of Etham referred to in Numbers 33:8?  http://www.yare.org/e-books/EEF1/scripts/map.htm.  July 7, 2005.

Batrawi, A.  1946.  The racial history of Egypt and Nubia.  In: The Journal of the Royal Anthropological Institute, 75:1945, pp. 81-101; 76:1946, pp. 131-56.

Bechtel, F. and Thomas M. Barrett (Tr.).  2003.  Manna.  In: The Catholic Encyclopedia.  New Advent.  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09604a.htm.  11 July 2005.

Bible Dictionary.  2004.  Kibroth-hattaavah.  http://www.biblelearn.com/east2184.htm, 13 September 2004.

Bietak, Manfred.  1996.  Avaris, the capital of the Hyksos:  recent excavations at Tell el-Daba.  British Museum Press, 1996.

Binyamin, Masaoth Rabbi.  2000.  In: Torah:  Navigating the Bible.  World ORT, http://bible.ort.org/books/torahd5.asp?act...&portion=16, 2 November 2005.

Bloch, M. R.  1996.  Common salt . made the world go round sea levels, David Bloch MRBLOCH SALT ARCHIVE.  http://www.salt.il/sealevel.html, 13 October 2004.

Bodenheimer, Fritz.  1927.  The manna of the Exodus, Zion Experimental Agricultural Station, Hebrew University.

Bowden, G. and R. Reycraft.  2000.  Confronting natural disaster:  engaging the past to understand the future.  University of New Mexico Press.  Albuquerque.  pp. 75-98.

Boyd, James O.  2005.  Jacob.  Herald Magazine.  http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/dict...ries/0JISBE.htm, 13 April 2005.

Bratcher, Dennis.  2005.  The date of the Exodus:  the historical study of scripture.   Christian Resource Institute.  http://www.cresourcei.org/exodusdate.html.  23 November 2005.

Breasted, James H.  1912.  A history of Egypt from the earliest times to the Persian conquest.  Charles Scribner's Sons.  New York.  pp. 188 and 276.

Bright, John.  1981.  A history of Israel, 3rd Edition.  Westminster, Philadelphia.

Brown, Brian.  1923.  The wisdom of the Egyptians.  Brentanos.  New York.

Budge, E. A. W.  1978.  An Egyptian hieroglyphic dictionary, Vol. I, Sec. 143.  Dover Publications.  ISBN:  0486236161.

Budge, Ernest A.  1923.  Tutankhamen.  Dodd, Mead & Co.  New York.  In Geerts, L. C. Earths ancient history.  Earth-history.  3 January 2005.  http://www.earth-history.com/Egypt/Tutankh...budge-tut09.htm.  21 April 2005.

Butin, R.  2004.  Cinites.  Catholic Encyclopedia (III).  New Advent.  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03776b.htm, 27 January 2005.

Catholic Encyclopedia.  2004.  Manna.  New Advent.  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09604a.htm, 22 June 2004.

Centre for Sinai.  2004.  Environment of the Sinai.  Centre for Sinai.  http://www.centre4sinai.com.eg/su-enviroment.htm.  15 October 2004.

Churchill, Laurie.  1999.  Itinerarium Egeriae.  http://go.owu.edu/~o5medww/egeria, 11 January 2005.

Clayton, Peter A.  1994.  Chronology of the Pharaohs:  the reign-by-reign record of the rulers and dynasties of ancient Egypt.  Thames and Hudson, London.  ISBN 0500050740, p. 224.

Columbia Encyclopedia.  2005.  Ezion-geber.  Encyclopedia.com, High Beam Research, Inc.  http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/e/eziongeb.asp.  24 October 2005.

Comwell, Jim A.  1995.  The alpha and the omega, chapter 4.  http://www.mazzaroth.com/ChapterFour/SargonDidHeExist.htm, 28 April 2004.

De Silva, Shan.  2004.  Toba, Sumatra, Indonesia.  Volcano World, University of North Dakota.  http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/volc_i...nesia/toba.html, 25 October 2004.

Demsky, Aaron.  1988.  Writing in early Judaism:  the biblical period.  In: Mulder, Martin Jan and Harry Sysling (Eds.).  Mikra, text, translation, reading and interpretation of the Hebrew Bible in ancient Judaism and early Christianity.  Van Gorcum, Assen/Maastricht and Fortress Press, Philadelphia.

Dever, William G.  1990.  Archaeology and Israelite settlement.  In: Dever, William G. n.d.  Recent archaeological discoveries and biblical research.  Seattle & London. University of Washington Press.  pp. 70-71.

Dollinger, Andre.  2000.  The admonitions of Ipuwer.  Ancient Egyptian Didactic Literature.  http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/texts/ipuwer.htm.  29 April 2004.

Dollinger, Andre.  2005.  Biography of Ahmose, son of Abana.  Ancient Egypt. http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/ahmose_inscription.htm.  13 December 2005.

Domain of Baal.  2004.  Athirat (Ugarit), Asherah (Hebrew), Domain of Baal, resurrecting interest in the ancient deity.  Baal.com.  http://www.baal.com/baal/about/MajorDeitiesUgarit.shtml, 5 January 2005.

Dunn, Jimmy.  2003.  Seti I.  TourEgypt, InterCity Oz, http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/seti1.htm, 6 April 2006.

Dunn, Jimmy.  2003.  Thutmosis III.  TourEgypt, InterCity Oz, http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/tuthmosis3.htm, 17 February 2006.

Dwyer, James.  2004.  Chronology of Jubilees, a quest for creation answers.  http://www.creation-answers.com/chronoj.htm, 26 August 2004.

Finkelstein, Israel.  1993.  Archeological survey in the hill country of Benjamin.  Jacob M. Alkow Department of Archeology and ancient Near Eastern cultures.  Jerusalem.

Finkelstein, Israel.  1995.  Living on the fringe: the archaeology and history of the Negev, Sinai and neighboring regions in the Bronze and Iron Ages.  Sheffield Academic Press.  p. 118.

Fox, Troy.  2003.  The military campaigns of Seti I.  TourEgypt, InterCity Oz, http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/setiwar.htm, 9 January 2006.

Fox, Troy.  2003.  Who were the Hyksos.  TourEgypt, InterCity Oz.  http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/hyksos.htm.  13 January 2005.

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Givon, Shmuel.  1997.  The smaller stele of Sethos I from Beth Shan reconsidered.  In:  Abstracts of the 1997 ASOR Annual Meeting.  A25, Ramat-Gan, Israel.  http://www.asor.org/AM/ASORAbs97.html.  5 November 2004.

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Green, Paul.  2004.  Moses was disabled.  British Broadcasting Corporation.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/features/moses.shtml.  July 20, 2004.

Hamilton, Jefferies M.  n.d.  Hormah.  In: Freedman, David N. (Ed.).  The Anchor Bible Dictionary (3).  New York.  pp.288-289.

Hefner, Alan G.  2004.  Baal.  Encyclopedia Mythica, Pantheon.  http://www.pantheon.org/articles/b/baal.html, 7 January 2005.

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Hillier, Amargi.  2003.  Ancient rock quarries:  the Ravine of Inscriptions.  TourEgypt.  http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/inscription.htm, 10 November 2004.

Hurt, John.  2001.  Rithmah.  Eastons Bible Dictionary.  http://www.htmlbible.com/kjv30/easton/east3137.htm, 15 July 2005.

Illes, Judith.  2004.  Hathor, lady of beauty.  TourEgypt.  http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/hathorbeauty.htm, 20 December 2004.

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LaMarche, V.C., Jr. and Hirschboeck, K.K.  1984.  Frost rings in trees as records of major volcanic eruptions.  Nature (307), pp. 121-126.

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Maas, A. J. and Thomas M. Barrett (Tr.).  1909.  Elohim.  In: The Catholic Encyclopedia (5).  Robert Appleton Company, New York.  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05393a.htm, 9 December 2004.

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Mattfeld, Walter R.  2003.  The Exodus' "poisonous quail" of Kib`roth-hatta`avah (Nu 11:31-35, 33:16, 17; Psalm 78:26-31).  BibleOrigins.  http://www.bibleorigins.net/ExodusQuailmir...othhattaav.html.  December 14, 2005.

Mattfeld, Walter R.  26 September 2003.  Kadesh Barnea is Tell Masos, NOT Ain el Qudeirat (which is Hazar Addar)?  Bible Origins.  http://www.bibleorigins.net/KadeshMasosAkrabbim.html.  29 October, 2004.

Mattfeld, Walter R.  17 October 2003.  The route of the Exodus, part 2.  Bibleorigins.  http://www.bibleorigins.net/TheRouteOfTheExodusPart2.html.  31 August 2005.

Mattfeld, Walter R.  2004.  Map of Kibrothhattavah.  BibleOrigins.  http://www.bibleorigins.net/Kibrothhattaav...usaHaweiti.html.  December 14, 2005.

Mattfeld, Walter R.  2004.  Oboth Map Webde.  Bibleorigins.  http://www.bibleorigins.net/ObothMapWebde.html, 4 November 2005.

Mattfeld, Walter R.  10 March 2004.  Map of Ije-Abarim, Iye-Abarim, Iyim.  BibleOrigins.net, http://www.bibleorigins.net/IyimAbarimMap.html, 3 November 2005.

Mattfeld, Walter R.  31 August 2004.  The land of Goshen (Ancient Egyptian Pa-qas, Greek Phacusa, modern Faqus).  BibleOrigins.  http://www.bibleorigins.net/GoshenMapFaqus.html, 12 January 2005.

Mattfeld, Walter R.  10 March 2004. The route of the Exodus and additional sites mentioned in the narratives as envisioned by the ca. 560 BCE biblical narrator.  Bibleorigins.  http://www.bibleorigins.net/RouteOfTheExodusMapSites.html.  7 October 2004.

Mattfeld, Walter R.  26 March 2004.  The route of the Exodus:  proposals for Yam Suph (Lake Timsah), Etham/Shur (Tumilat/Timsah/Abu Suwayr), Marah/LXX: Merrah (Bir el Murr), Elim (Ayun Musa's 12 springs) Wilderness of Sin/LXX: Sina (El Sanawi/Hosan abu Zenna), Dophka (Ras Umm Qatafa/Qattar Dafari), Alush (Bir El-Guweisa), Rephidim (Serabit el Khadim), Horeb/Choreb (Gebel Ghorabi/Gharabi), Mount Sinai (Gebel Saniya), Paran (Feiran Oasis).  Bible Origins, http://www.bibleorigins.net/YamSuphTimsahElimAyunMusa.html, 22 September 2005.

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#339    KllrKlsm

KllrKlsm

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 01:28 PM

Yep
Thanx






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