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Telekinesis


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#106    AmazingAtheist

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 11:59 AM

Sorry -- No such power exists.

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When men are at their most religious
That they behave with the least sense
And the greatest cruelty.

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#107    SOUL-DRIFTER

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 02:23 PM

[quote name='Jjbreen' date='Oct 15 2007, 11:39 PM' post='1936897']
I'm sorry but now it can't -- there is simply NO evidence at all that the above is even remotely true or factual! I find it curiously funny that people say these silly things and then when asked to offer some credible or valid proof - they head for the door w/all sorts of lame excuses --- even, "I don't have to prove it to you. I can make any lame statement I wish, but I don't have to offer any proof of my words!" U R right you don't --- but you also then show the type of Character and Integrity that you have ...> ZERO, even with the 'believers'.

Here is the problem - there are PLENTY of believers out there that want this to be true! Yet no one, not one single person offers even the believer any proof!! Why is that?

The problem is that is nothing short of a lie. Who are you kidding? I am serious with this. There is not one piece of evidence to suggest the human mind is capable of this. So why say it?? Truthfully, why say it - when you cannot even look yourself in the mirror and state: Do I have any honest and credible evidence of this? YES or NO? Then if it's yes --- why do you not supply it??  Why do people play 'cryptic words games' --- when that is exactly what it is --- G A M E S!

So you proved it to yourself ---
NOW how about the rest of the world?? Or is that beneath you?? Plus are you certain you've not mistaken Science for "TK" ... like so many have done w/the so called Pin (Psi) Wheel.

See the Believer wants to believe!
The Skeptic wants to believe .... and yet it always is the case ...>>> People come on here, make bold claims of fame and then run like hell when asked: Please supply credible and valid proof. Funny how that is always never provided...

So what is your excuse? I am most curious to hear if it's a new one or not ....................


Excuse.?
I am not claiming one.
I did not claim to have Telekinetic powers. Only that I did perform it, ONCE.
Is not this forum a place for discussion? Not a laboratory for proving or disproving asomething.?
If the proof is as important as you make it to be, than look for it in other places other than internet forums.
People will say whatever they want here, and there is no doubt, a lot of lies told.
But for those of you who want proof, SEEK IT. Don't expect to find it here.

Armchair skeptics do themselves no favors.

I have been involed in this subject and many others for over 40 years. I did not learn and seen what I have by not going out and trying to find it.
I have witness genuine phenomena and  witness a lot more frauds as well.

Believe whatever you are comfortable with.

Accept it or not. Telekinesis is a real phenomena.



#108    GeneBrowne

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 02:58 PM

Quote

Accept it or not. Telekinesis is a real phenomena.


Well prove it. Someone please prove it. It;s not much to ask for ... or is it? Maybe people haven't been able to edit videos to make it look genuine ... I duno what the excuse is. But if it is a real phenomena ... shouldnt there be at least a little proof?




Gene



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#109    SOUL-DRIFTER

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 03:08 PM

Quote

Well prove it. Someone please prove it. It;s not much to ask for ... or is it? Maybe people haven't been able to edit videos to make it look genuine ... I duno what the excuse is. But if it is a real phenomena ... shouldnt there be at least a little proof?
Gene


Think man. Think!

This is not a phenomena that could satisfactorily proven here on this forum, even if we really had someone that could do it right now.
You need to be physically present to witness and scrutinize what you see.



#110    eqgumby

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 03:16 PM

Quote

Think man. Think!

This is not a phenomena that could satisfactorily proven here on this forum, even if we really had someone that could do it right now.
You need to be physically present to witness and scrutinize what you see.

Try reading the whole thread. Try being objective. People want proof, and here we have provided, once again, a venue in which in can be proved. Yet as usual, NO ONE steps up. NO ONE can do it. Tons of excuses, NO PROOF. No one will likely meet even HALF of the protocols set forth, because it's NOT REAL.

Credentials/Background<--This is a link!


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#111    GeneBrowne

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 04:06 PM

Quote

Think man. Think!

This is not a phenomena that could satisfactorily proven here on this forum, even if we really had someone that could do it right now.
You need to be physically present to witness and scrutinize what you see.


I'm sick of thinking about it. There's nothing to think about. When asked a simple task of proving what so many people should be capable of, everyone runs and hides. It's not going to be satisfactorily proved on this forum because no1 can do it ... I said it. I give people the benefit of the doubt with hopes of proof coming along ... but apparently thats not going to be happening anytime soon. Just another claimer that's not going to post evidence to back it up.





Quote

Try reading the whole thread. Try being objective. People want proof, and here we have provided, once again, a venue in which in can be proved. Yet as usual, NO ONE steps up. NO ONE can do it. Tons of excuses, NO PROOF. No one will likely meet even HALF of the protocols set forth, because it's NOT REAL.


My TK allows me to see that there is nothing going to come of this because no1 can provide the proof asked for. Therefore, it's all just misconceptions, at least from the posters here.

Maybe if someone with the real thing and tried to change our mind with something other than a post it would be different. I'll be waiting.





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#112    Jjbreen

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 04:10 PM

Quote

So what is your excuse? I am most curious to hear if it's a new one or not ....................
Excuse.?
I am not claiming one.
I did not claim to have Telekinetic powers. Only that I did perform it, ONCE.
Is not this forum a place for discussion? Not a laboratory for proving or disproving asomething.?
If the proof is as important as you make it to be, than look for it in other places other than internet forums.
People will say whatever they want here, and there is no doubt, a lot of lies told.
But for those of you who want proof, SEEK IT. Don't expect to find it here.

Armchair skeptics do themselves no favors.

I have been involed in this subject and many others for over 40 years. I did not learn and seen what I have by not going out and trying to find it.
I have witness genuine phenomena and  witness a lot more frauds as well.

Believe whatever you are comfortable with.

Accept it or not. Telekinesis is a real phenomena.


Wait, you only were able to do this 1 time. LMAO ..........

I'm going to try and be seriously OBJECTIVE here........

I will submit a very rational argument here:

A. Since you only did this 1x.

........... Did you try again at any other time after this, or was this it. Once you did this, that was it?

If you didn't try again I would be seriously shocked and surprised. Why? Because if I did something like this, you'd know damn well I'd want to try this again - NO QUESTION MARK!!

So I'm going to go with the side, you DID try this again and more than just a few times.

The fact that this was only accomplished once and never again - R U 100% positive that you took into account all other possible dynamics that could be at play?
(I would also ask: How old were you at the time?)

Again, did you try to account for ANY and ALL other possible Dynamics that might or could have been at play here? Or did you just accept Telekinesis??

See the very fact that this only happened once, suggests and strongly suggests that some other dynamic was at play and not Telekinesis. Can you look yourself in the mirror straight on and say, "I know for 100% positive I have taken into account all other possibilities and there were no other chance of some other dynamic at play. Especially since I could only do this one time!?" You have to look yourself in the eyes before you can look into anyone else's.

See here is why I say this. In ALL the Telekinetic powers that I've investigated "hands on" and via videos. There were other dynamics at play and NOT Telekinesis.

Thermodynamics is at the top of the list.
Vapor bubbles is another.
Un-even tables
Nervous twitches from legs and arms.
Personal Breathing.
The Metal Under the table was magnetized unknown to the owner and caused the motion. <-- That one was really strange.
Drafts from:
... Windows
... Vents
... Personal Breathing
................................... and so on... the list would go.
NOT TO LEAVE OUT:
Tricks
Illusions
Scams.
......... These three should be at the top of the list.

See we've heard this claim of "Time and Practice and you too can do telekinesis" and yet, even with you saying this there is no credible or valid evidence to support this as a truth but everything to support this as an exaggerated and un-supported claim - aka - a lie. Sorry. But we've heard this time and time again ... with zero support of any kind of credible, let alone verifiable evidence. That always is the case ... and even with you is also the case. What we have in un-verifiable hear-say 1x only words.

Why do you honestly expect us to believe this? W/the clear and obvious history of scams, lies and mis-representations? If you have studied this, you'd know this. If you had studied this you'd be more than aware of the no small serious lack of any credible - verifiable proof.

What did you honestly expect?  blink.gif

I have to close w/agreeing w/Eggumby.


#113    SOUL-DRIFTER

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:34 PM

Quote

Wait, you only were able to do this 1 time. LMAO ..........

I'm going to try and be seriously OBJECTIVE here........

I will submit a very rational argument here:

A. Since you only did this 1x.

........... Did you try again at any other time after this, or was this it. Once you did this, that was it?

If you didn't try again I would be seriously shocked and surprised. Why? Because if I did something like this, you'd know damn well I'd want to try this again - NO QUESTION MARK!!

So I'm going to go with the side, you DID try this again and more than just a few times.

The fact that this was only accomplished once and never again - R U 100% positive that you took into account all other possible dynamics that could be at play?
(I would also ask: How old were you at the time?)

Again, did you try to account for ANY and ALL other possible Dynamics that might or could have been at play here? Or did you just accept Telekinesis??

See the very fact that this only happened once, suggests and strongly suggests that some other dynamic was at play and not Telekinesis. Can you look yourself in the mirror straight on and say, "I know for 100% positive I have taken into account all other possibilities and there were no other chance of some other dynamic at play. Especially since I could only do this one time!?" You have to look yourself in the eyes before you can look into anyone else's.

See here is why I say this. In ALL the Telekinetic powers that I've investigated "hands on" and via videos. There were other dynamics at play and NOT Telekinesis.

Thermodynamics is at the top of the list.
Vapor bubbles is another.
Un-even tables
Nervous twitches from legs and arms.
Personal Breathing.
The Metal Under the table was magnetized unknown to the owner and caused the motion. <-- That one was really strange.
Drafts from:
... Windows
... Vents
... Personal Breathing
................................... and so on... the list would go.
NOT TO LEAVE OUT:
Tricks
Illusions
Scams.
......... These three should be at the top of the list.

See we've heard this claim of "Time and Practice and you too can do telekinesis" and yet, even with you saying this there is no credible or valid evidence to support this as a truth but everything to support this as an exaggerated and un-supported claim - aka - a lie. Sorry. But we've heard this time and time again ... with zero support of any kind of credible, let alone verifiable evidence. That always is the case ... and even with you is also the case. What we have in un-verifiable hear-say 1x only words.

Why do you honestly expect us to believe this? W/the clear and obvious history of scams, lies and mis-representations? If you have studied this, you'd know this. If you had studied this you'd be more than aware of the no small serious lack of any credible - verifiable proof.

What did you honestly expect?  blink.gif

I have to close w/agreeing w/Eggumby.


As I said before.
Whatever you feel comfortable with in believing.
I was in fact 29 at the time.
And I doubted myself at the time.
I checked for the table to be level, the glasses were nonmagnetic.
The motion was toward me, constant and steady as I was visualizing it to be, thus my breath did not cause it.
My hands were no where near the glasses.
Yes, I tried to use every thing I could think of, to explain the movement. Everything you mentioned and more. None of it fit.

I said I had done it one time. Poor choice of words. It was actually that particular day and time period.
I sat down and repeated the movement at least 3 times.

You say you would go bonkers and perform it as much as possible.
I will admit I thought I would feel the same. But it didn't turn out that way.

I said to myself in the beginning, that I was going to follow through, just to prove to myself once and for all, if there is any truth to Telekinesis.
After those experiences my interest to persue it,  drained out of me.
Mission was accomplished.

At my age, it would take years to work my way back to that, and I have no interest in doing so.

If you people wish to go on believing it is all hogwash, then knock yourselves out.

Oh and by the way, I have witness at least one other performing it under strick conditions... in person.
He was no fraud, as is with 99% of the others.

If there is someone who really thinks they can perform it. Then I urge them to start with the JAMES RHANDI challenge.
For anyone of this forum. If they can claim the $1,000,000, that should be enough to convince them.


#114    Snake022

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:40 PM

yes, if there really is someone who could really do it, i think we would know about it. really, if you can do it, its not that hard to prove it exists. just call up like the CNN, or FOX news or something, and tell then you have something to show them, if you really can do it, you ould get attention in no time, the whole country would know, and you could be able to not make excuses, or magic tricks, just do it. yet all we get is stories of people doing them, no video, no picture, no proof. it makes us wonder, if it really exists, and people can do it, why dont they? i have yet to see one who claims to have such talents actually back them up. all we get is stories, most of them are from children, mainly with overactive imaginations, who just jump to conclusion, or make up things for attention.

Edited by Snake022, 16 October 2007 - 08:40 PM.


#115    Jjbreen

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 08:57 PM

Quote

I said I had done it one time. Poor choice of words. It was actually that particular day and time period.
I sat down and repeated the movement at least 3 times.


Wow - now the story begins to change... from 1x to now 3x's ....  blink.gif

U do seriously understand at your 'age' - how this begins now to question your crediblity??

I'm 53, and at 29 if I did it 1x and was going to try it 2 more times - I would so get witnesses to back this up. There would be no question mark, especially even at 29, I would and did know - this has to be validated, IF I'm going to talk about it. WHY? Because I was aware of the scams and such, even then! I would have even pulled out my VHS Video Camera as well .... I would have take great care. * But I am aware that is me. This is also related because of what I've done professionally before that time and after .......*

Quote

At my age, it would take years to work my way back to that, and I have no interest in doing so.


Of course not! That is an easy out. I'm sorry for that comment, but you must understand, IF indeed you have been aware, you would know this too is seen as a 'excuse', valid or not ... sad but true, but you should be aware of this.

Also again, based on your age and supposed awareness of this - you should have been well aware of the skeptic and attitude you'd get when you could offer no better evidence then 'years ago hear-say'.

As one other person has said - "If indeed this is true and was witnessed ---> then it would be known sooner then later, trust me.

The question is - why do you expect to be accepted? Why do you expect to be believed? Why do you expect OBJECTIVE dialog on it, when you offer no Objective Evidence?  Personally you've honestly shown more ignorance then awareness in this field.  Sorry ---


#116    SOUL-DRIFTER

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 12:45 AM

Quote

Wow - now the story begins to change... from 1x to now 3x's ....  blink.gif

U do seriously understand at your 'age' - how this begins now to question your crediblity??

I'm 53, and at 29 if I did it 1x and was going to try it 2 more times - I would so get witnesses to back this up. There would be no question mark, especially even at 29, I would and did know - this has to be validated, IF I'm going to talk about it. WHY? Because I was aware of the scams and such, even then! I would have even pulled out my VHS Video Camera as well .... I would have take great care. * But I am aware that is me. This is also related because of what I've done professionally before that time and after .......*
Of course not! That is an easy out. I'm sorry for that comment, but you must understand, IF indeed you have been aware, you would know this too is seen as a 'excuse', valid or not ... sad but true, but you should be aware of this.

Also again, based on your age and supposed awareness of this - you should have been well aware of the skeptic and attitude you'd get when you could offer no better evidence then 'years ago hear-say'.

As one other person has said - "If indeed this is true and was witnessed ---> then it would be known sooner then later, trust me.

The question is - why do you expect to be accepted? Why do you expect to be believed? Why do you expect OBJECTIVE dialog on it, when you offer no Objective Evidence?  Personally you've honestly shown more ignorance then awareness in this field.  Sorry ---


The fact that you have the attitude that you do, is a testament to your lack of awareness.

OH yes. I did know that I would probably get the response that I got.
But because this is a discussion on the subject, I felt compelled to share my experiences.
If my lack of proof offends you...SORRY. It is the way it is.

53.
And of those 53 years, how many of them were spent investigating and researching? 10, 20? More?Less?
Did you travel the country to check out stories?
How many different claimed psychics did you check out and meet up with?
I have spent over 40 years at the subject. Traveled the country and met with too many to list.
Have you met James Rhandi in person?
Despite his skepticism, he is a marvelous man.
More open minded than you think.




#117    eight bits

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 01:14 AM

Quote

At my age, it would take years to work my way back to that, and I have no interest in doing so.


You must have some interest. You brought it up.

Train someone younger; wax-on, wax-off and all that.

I am sorry - it must be reasonably obvious by now that I am not in cahoots with the sharks, but I simply do not follow what you are claiming. You worked for months and months at this, succeeded to your own satisfaction, and then - what?

Why give it up? Why not publish the book? Why bring it up now? What were you researching for all those decades if not your own feat, which is unprecedented in human history?

Why do you even think it is telekinesis? All you report is that something moved and you personally, working by yourself, could not find any other explanation.

What am I missing? Help me, please.

Edited by eight bits, 17 October 2007 - 01:15 AM.

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#118    SS79

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 01:51 AM

Quote

Train someone younger; wax-on, wax-off and all that.


ROFL  , that takes me back .

I do agree with 8 bits though it does seem a little odd . I mean if it was me I'd want to shout it from the rooftops . wouldn't anyone ?

Quote

Have you met James Rhandi in person?
Despite his skepticism, he is a marvelous man.
More open minded than you think.


And tell me you say you met randi ? and you advised soemone here to take his challenge . surely knowing there 1.000.000 dollars up for grabs and knowing you have achieved it before and knowing your  going to be in contact with randi.  surely  that would be worth  the effort ?

blessings SS79  x x x x

Edited by spiritual_soul79, 17 October 2007 - 01:54 AM.


#119    Jjbreen

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 02:16 AM

Quote

The fact that you have the attitude that you do, is a testament to your lack of awareness.

OH yes. I did know that I would probably get the response that I got.
But because this is a discussion on the subject, I felt compelled to share my experiences.
If my lack of proof offends you...SORRY. It is the way it is.

53.
And of those 53 years, how many of them were spent investigating and researching? 10, 20? More?Less?
Did you travel the country to check out stories?
How many different claimed psychics did you check out and meet up with?
I have spent over 40 years at the subject. Traveled the country and met with too many to list.
Have you met James Rhandi in person?
Despite his skepticism, he is a marvelous man.
More open minded than you think.


No, I've not met James Randi, nor do I have any interest in meeting him. He doesn't impress me in the least.

As for the other questions: Yes actually I did travel and investigate and talked with some psychic's, which proved in 98% of the time a total waste of time and money. (That is also why I have on this board $1,000.00 up for grabs.)

No I am not a 'novice' on this nor am I total dis-believer. As I have stated more times than I care now, I do accept certain Psi - Psychic abilities. I have come to have a very sour taste toward the term Psychic - so I prefer to use the term: Psi.

I've studied in depth a whole lot of claims, especially more locally where I live then nation wide. But have checked out a 'few' nation wide.

The abilities I have come to accept are:

Telepathy between twins.
This has been well documented enough that this is not so much a question any more... Except HOW they do this. I've even witnessed this first hand with twins.
............ The funny thing is, those twins that can do it - do not cop attitudes, do not spew out excuses. They do stand up and say, "let do it..." and they do!

Remote Viewing.
I've seen enough first hand and 2nd hand studies and tests to see that this is also real. Again specifically how it is done, is not understood. The one test that I thought was very impressive was Ingo Swamii and his "Jupiter Remote Viewing", where he saw rings close around Jupiter. A tabloid 'took' the information and published it BEFORE Voyager got to Jupiter and found rings around Jupiter and these rings were close. Ingo was just too accurate on the details to be Chance Guessing. To even suggest rings around Jupiter at that time was ... well it wasn't good press for Ingo until the Voyager Pics came back. Now is he 100% all the time Right On? NO --- like baseball players, he's had his strike outs as well.

But other RV'ers have stepped up locally and nation wide and provided no cop attitudes and excuses and proved the viability and reality of this. R they 100% all the time? No ---

Then Empaths.
Not the touchy feely New Age Crap that is out there. Where it's dependent on visual and audio clues. No these are people that can sense and feel the emotions of others - with blinders covering their eyes, ears covered and no physical contact other than in the same room. They can tell you various levels of personal emotions they feel in and from other people.

Telekinesis -
NO -> funny thing is there is nor has their been any credible evidence ever submitted that was found to be less then it was billed. Scams, hoaxes, illusions, tricks and mis-representation of Science as "Psi".

But not one piece of credible evidence of Telekinetic powers.  So the dialog on this is handi-capped big time. It's a Science Fiction Special Effects dialog.

You and other expect a dialog of seriousness and we are left going why? How can a serious dialog happen on this when there is no serious evidence submitted to dialog? Even you have no evidence to supply us. Only 'ancient' history 'hear say'. The problem is hear-say isn't evidence. We have all the hear-say on UM to fill books. But there isn't even one line in this book of anything that can be validated or confirmed. Not a sentence, a paragraph or page.

Plus there is zero evidence historically speaking. Not even in the orient, where I would have expected -- if -- it were possible they would be the ones to do it. I have a number of oriental doctor's and practitioners of oriental medicine and such that I've talked with. Those video's and such that are on Utube or Google they will be the first to admit - it's a trick. These guys are masters at tricks and now how to do it well. But it is NOT psi, but "mystic illusions". They even told me a number of ways that they do these tricks and showed the tricks to me to prove it!

So bottom line is: How do you expect a serious dialog, where there is no serious, credible or valid evidence to dialog?


#120    SOUL-DRIFTER

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 02:26 AM

Quote

You must have some interest. You brought it up.

Train someone younger; wax-on, wax-off and all that.

I am sorry - it must be reasonably obvious by now that I am not in cahoots with the sharks, but I simply do not follow what you are claiming. You worked for months and months at this, succeeded to your own satisfaction, and then - what?

Why give it up? Why not publish the book? Why bring it up now? What were you researching for all those decades if not your own feat, which is unprecedented in human history?

Why do you even think it is telekinesis? All you report is that something moved and you personally, working by yourself, could not find any other explanation.

What am I missing? Help me, please.


My interest is not a hands on active one as it use to be.
I do however like to keep up and occasionally check in on the several forums which I am a member, amd partake in discussions on this and the mariad of other subjects.

I succeded because of my commitment to it. And the fact that the phenomena is a real one. This is what I needed to prove to myself.
What I did was not unprecedented. Others have done it.

One of the reasons that contributed to my giving it up, was the constant mental excercises I did to get there, were no walk in the park.
They were difficult to do regularly and every day.

I am definately going to finally go ahead and get the book I wrote about this program published.(I wrote it shortly after my experience)
Since I have no proof of what I say, it will be my way of bringing a close to that chapter of my life.

I believed it was telekinesis because I saw no other explanation.
Could it have been a ghost, that moved it to amuse me? Or an invisible alien?
Not impossible, but I would consider that more unlikely. Wouldn't you?

What are you missing?
Nothing.
You are just another of the many skeptics that are desperate to see proof. You are not getting it. And the amount of claimed abilities you feel should have produced something if there was anything to it.
Am I correct in my assesment?
I personally do not see how this is a subject that could be proven, unless one could get official government documents attesting to it in some research they had done.
Otherwise all I can tell you is do leg work to see in person people that claim it.
If you consider this, be patient. You will certainly see more frauds than anything.
Of all the psychics I seen. Only one performed an act of psychokinesis that I considered genuine.

Most people will never have the time or patience to persue subjects such as this for the length of time needed to experience something genuine.
If you wish to find simple proof of ESP that would be simpler and could be easily tested for at home.





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