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what is life?


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#46    minaras

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Posted 24 April 2008 - 09:13 PM

1)living organisms normally are not dying because the chemical reactions that are composing them are continuing happening.if we analyze all these reactions we will have a very good view to their homeostasis.As we said we are seeing the world from the inside , or else in a mirror like direction, because we our selves are part of things, so we appreciate things from its results.We think that homeostasis is a very magical and perfect mechanism, because we are the result of homeostasis, but the theory that we analyzed says that homeostasis simply is the cataloge of the chemical reactions that are still happening, and just because they keep happening, the organism is alive.



2)the complex organic compounds that are composing living creatures probably are the results of many years of reactions, or else they are the fingerprints of the reactions from the beginning of all the reactions till today.



3)because human is a very complicated system of reactions that all depend from each other, its very loggical to say that it is almost impossible to treat compeletely a chronic disease with a single drug.The human body is not a car that we fix the part that is wrong and everything is ok.Instead, its reactions are so complicated, that (unless the illness is caused by a foreign agent e.g. a microbe, or by that lack of a substance that can be replaced), if there is a problem with a reaction this will lead to a chain reaction way problem to other reactions of the body as well.This mechanism is responsible for chronic diseases.The only way to treat compeletely this disease is to put back the initial reaction with the problem the way it was.Every other method will reduse symptoms, but not heal.Or it may theat a problem and create another.A good example for this is the treatment of high blood pressure or cholesterol.This are much more complicated that we though, that ever with the proper treatment of high blood pressure or cholesterol, we are not talking about healing, but for statistically significant improvement.Some studies also shows that there is no decrease in mortality even with the treatment of the risk factors.Another good example are rheumatic diseases.No complete cure exists.Drugs have many side effects.One hole is closed, and another is opened. Even in major diseases there is a big dissosiation between the pathogenetic mechanisms that are discovered and treatments.This diference will continue growing if we dont realize that the mechanism that organism works is more complicated.  




#47    minaras

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Posted 30 April 2008 - 09:52 PM

1)lets come now to the position to answer if the spores that some microorganisms forms(e.g. cryptobiosis,anhydrobiosis etc) are living forms.If their metabolism is not zero, if it exists but it cant be detected because it is so weak, then they dont differ in anything from the other organisms.If their metabolism is absolute zero, then the answer gets more complicated.The fact is that it doesnt matter what it is, because the question is useless.Life as we see it is simply the result of the chemical reactions on earth.As we said ,we are part of the system and we dont realize it, but if we were alien forms of life for example, and we were watching the earth from outer space, then we would see only a very complicated network of reactions that are becoming more and more because of the energy of light.This system would have different structural forms, colours, etc.So, what happens with the spores is that because they face very unfriendly conditions ,the certain chemical reactions stop happening or they are lowering their rate.According to our definition, they are not life, but what is life?Life seems to be more an invention of us,or else a term that we use to describe anything that looks like us.There is not such a thing as life, its an illusion.An organism is the reactions that we see, and we think they are something amazing because we see them separately from all the other reactions that are happening in the world.We judge them from their reult, which is that they become like us.We are a part of the reactions that are happening as well, and while we see organisms that look like us, we think they are independent creatures, but actually they cant be separated from the whole soup of reactions.The spores are becoming as they were before because their reactions start happening, and they start looking like us.There is not such a thing as homeostasis.So tthe existence of their reaction gives the illusion that we called life.
2)Another implication of the theory is that because the sum of the chemical reactions is a chain, it means that the cause of a disease maybe come from the organ that has the symptoms, but maybe not.An initial problem causes its irregularity, but depends of the vulnerability of each organ to see in which organ the symptom will be seen, because all the reactions communicate with each other, and when a problem exists its like a volcano and we dont know where will it explode.For example a psychic disorder can cause a problem from the liver for example




#48    Your Friend

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 12:45 AM

Dear Friends,
      The evolution of life and the origin of life are two different concepts in science. We may wish for the general concept of evolution to be either true or untrue. I wish only to point out a scientific principal that proponents of " Intelligent Design ", " Creationism" , or " Classical Religions" fail to understand.
One of your very bright young creationist scientist could tomorrow morning devise a proof of the invalidity of Evolution and natural selection.  It could possibly be shown to represent incontrovertible evidence of the falseness and errors of modern science and the mistakes and misapplications of science that led us down the false road of Evolution for almost 200 years.
     It is indeed sad that such a marvelous and astounding discover would do absolutely nothing to prove creationism or to breathe life back into a dead god.
    You see Evolution is a positive assertive theory theory, all of the contra evidence that has ever been opposed and stacked against it, has only been an attempt to disprove the theory of Evolution.

     If you could disprove carbon dating would that prove the " divinity of Christ " . If you could eliminate the archaeological evidence of Eons, would that be proof of a God that was his own father.

     If I were able to " really show "  that evolution violated the second law of thermodynamics. Would this make the story of the parting of the Red Sea even a bit more true.

    You see my friends you are not in a battle with science, you are not in a battle with the principalities of darkness, you are in a battle with your own reason and common sense.

    Were you to successfully knock down the straw man of science then what ?. Is sickness again caused by an evil spirit ? Does a man again gain the ability to live for days in the stomach of a big fish and be spit upon the shore unharmed?.  

     If the earth were to be re flooded. Would the millions of species and all the resources to feed and reestablish them now be possible to be be put on a little wooden boat.

     If all Scientists just gave up our reasoning and worldly thoughts and embraced what you would have us believe.
  
     Tell me what to believe about the origin of life and the development of animal, plant, and human diversity of life on this planet. I want to know what you would have me believe?

     Tell me your replacement theory.

Thank You,




#49    minaras

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 03:24 PM

what makes you think that human is the head of evolution?if you go with your dog for a walk and you meet another dog, i think that the dog will pay more attention to the other dog rather than you!!you may say that we are higher in evolution because we dominated on earth, but i am not so sure about that, because dinosaurs were the dominated species once.can you consider them higher than human?


#50    Drayno

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 04:18 PM

Life is to live, only we define it accordingly as we have a full conscientious perspective thanks to our ability to think and reason. original.gif

"One leader, one people, signifies one master and millions of slaves." - Camus

#51    OilFight

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Posted 14 June 2008 - 01:06 AM

minaras on Jun 11 2008, 08:24 AM, said:

what makes you think that human is the head of evolution?if you go with your dog for a walk and you meet another dog, i think that the dog will pay more attention to the other dog rather than you!!you may say that we are higher in evolution because we dominated on earth, but i am not so sure about that, because dinosaurs were the dominated species once.can you consider them higher than human?


Who thinks this huh.gif? I don't see anyone on this thread implying that we "the most evolved" species on earth, how would one even define what is "more" evolved anyway?


#52    minaras

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 10:08 PM

sorry!!!it was mostly a general  philosophical question



#53    Dragohunter

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Posted 27 June 2008 - 08:40 PM

The real question is if life is just a bunch of atoms connected in a special way or something else. This is more of a philosophical question rather than biological.

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Without time, there can be no change. Time "exists" as an essential property of space, so we must conclude for something to be here there must always have been something. Time is not a property of "nothing" (how could it be?) so 'something' must have existed for the universe to have been 'created' from. It would seem infinite regression indeed exists.

#54    DEFCON_1

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:20 AM

I think "what is life" is an irrelevant question. It is, and so be it because it is. simply put.

I think a beefier quesiton can be why is life?

by that nobody can really give a qualified answer. We can either state "i don't know" or we can leave a faith in something having a sort of divine plan  for all of these ocurances to give rise to this thing called life. Otherwise it simply can't be explained by our manmade minds.

For any "humanists" out there who believe life and the universe was created for man to have his way with, remember that man has no place 20 000 leagues under the sea where life continues to exsist. The mere variety of life on this planet  alone is proof enough all of that is not for us to consume and utilize. Yet most of you still do rather selfishly.

modern human life is a glorious state in that we can manipulate almost anything, do anything our minds can imagine (limited to the laws of universal physics)  in that can basicly manipulate anything known of in the physical universe. This ability to manipulate freely and do as our will intends is almost a gift. Seeing as it was a fluke that we were given the planet over the dinosaurs. The human is'nt  a dominant species in that the reptile is a more prevalent species. however it is doubtful the reptile contemplates its' exsistence. Therefore giving rise to the purpose of a human who Does contemplate this.

Whether you believe in a God or not , something is the governing force giving way to these occurances. For it after all ultimately gave you the gift of human consciousness.


#55    minaras

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 10:59 AM

continue from previous
Of  course, when we are talking about chains of chemical reactions, we do not mean it in the simplistic way, that they are in a chain, and everything is happening in  an order, where the formed substance goes to the next position to react with the next substrate etc. Things in nature are much more random, and  it is difficult sometimes for us to detect which is  the next step.One of the major difficulties are some passive phenomena that happen, such as plasma flow, passive diffusion through membranes because of difference in concentration, or electrical gradients, excretion throught ducts, etc.The latter are phenomena that happen passively ,due to the laws of nature and are not defining life, the way the chemical reactions do. To be more symbolical, they play the role that scientists play in a chemical lab:they transfer the substances from one tube to another, arrarge the conditions, etc.But the chemical reactions are the big difference.

Of course , if these movements that we are talking about were not there, we would not be the way we are.We are the results of all these , and so it is normal to think that if something was not the way it is, WE would not be there, the way we are!So we think that they are essential for us and everything was arranged perfectly, and if something was a bit different ,we would not be there, but as i told everything depends on who is the observer.We are a changing complex, and everything that happens lead to us.We see things from the opposite side though.It is like we are in a moving ship, and so we realize things differentl from someone who is standing in the port.Most of all we dont have a good sence of our own movement.If we were not in the living system, we would not find any reasoning for all the creatures on earth.Even if we were tables for example, we would think that the most perfect creatures are the tables.All depends on what is the observer.




#56    SQLserver

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 03:36 PM

Life is nothing besides chemicals interacting. This is generally accepted in biology.

It is naive to assume that humans are any different. It is also incorrect to assume that there is something mysterious about the human mind, or something about it that doesn't fit in with science.

Edited by sqlserver, 27 September 2008 - 03:36 PM.


#57    OilFight

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Posted 27 September 2008 - 06:58 PM

sqlserver on Sep 27 2008, 08:36 AM, said:

Life is nothing besides chemicals interacting. This is generally accepted in biology.

It is naive to assume that humans are any different. It is also incorrect to assume that there is something mysterious about the human mind, or something about it that doesn't fit in with science.


My thoughts exactly, it's only through our ability to create tools and a higher-than-average intelligence that we have been able to create civilization, technology, philosophy, and all that jazz. Any animal with the capacity to manipulate objects for specific purposes and enough curiosity could get to our level given the right circumstances.


#58    Repoman

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 05:45 PM

minaras on Sep 13 2007, 10:07 AM, said:

So, a simple chemical reaction as long as it happens ,is the simpliest form of life, or else, the sparkle of life.
This distinction between "form of life" and "sparkle of life" is far more significant than you allow for in the rest of your post.

In fact, what you really said is "a simple chemical reaction is life or it isn't life".  

So which is it? This question is important because the rest of your post relies on it.




#59    minaras

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:31 PM

In this point, someone would ask:Why are the forms of life the way they are today?In other words, what gave them their shape, and their characteristics?How can simple reactions lead to the complicated forms we see today?The answer is that the forms we see today are the result of what had happened, so we(the results), see ourselves as the most capable to survive, which is true, because thats what happened through time!as we told, virtually we see history from the opposite side, or else ,we see the theory of evolution from the end towards the beggining


#60    minaras

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 01:55 PM

i would like to answer to some points here:
Repoman:Actually the whole idea is that the definition of life is made only because we are a part of it.We call life everything that looks like us.As long as a virus or a spore has metabolism and make similar processes like us, we call it alive, but when they have zero metabolism, we find it hard to consider it alive.Fire on the other hand doesnt look enough like us to consider it alive.
Life is a creation of our mind, to describe anything that is like us,eg an ongoing system of reactions.It doesnt exist as an objective thing in the universe.For example a stone that is travelling million light years away from earth, can only see a soup of random, meaningless chemical reactions near the surface of earth, because it is not participating in the system....!So the distinction between sparkle an form of life is mostly artificial.
Sorry, for not answering to everybody that posted here , but i promise i will do it soon...





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