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Is the Biblical Yahweh actually a dragon?


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#1    draconic chronicler

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 11:53 AM

Before dismissing this out of hand, I would ask everyone read the whole post, and read it from the premise that Yahweh and El (Elohim) the actual Creator are two seperate entities, (as many serious Biblical scholars have proposed), with Yahweh actually being the one of many Bene Elohim, which also  includes the creature Satan, long associated with flying serpents and dragons.  I repeat, I am not proposing that "God is a Dragon", but that the Creator (El, Elohim), created "dragons" as assistants, that have been mistaken as our Gods around the world, including the "Watcher Dragon" of the Hebrews called Yahweh, who through a minunderstanding of scripture is now worshipped by most Christians and Jews as the actual creator.

Here are the facts:

1. The highest heavenly creatures are called Seraphim, a word which the highly esteemed and scholarly Jewish Enclyclopedia states means "fiery flying serpent", though medieval Christians have transformed these "dragons" into the more familiar, swan-winged, "cartoon" angels of popular culture. When the ancient Jews translated the word Seraphim into Greek, the word they used was drakon, which is the word our modern "dragon" is derived from.

2. The only graven image/idol Yahweh ever permits is that of a "fiery flying serpent", obviously his personal image, This image has supernatural powers, and Yahweh allows it to be freely worshipped in Solomon's temple. As soon as the idol is broken, disaster befalls Israel and it has never recovered until the late 20th century.

3. The flood story of Genesis is believed by most Biblical scholars to be a "retelling" of near identical, yet far older Sumerian versions in which the God name Enlil, who is also subservient to a greater Creator God is called "a Great Serpent-Dragon of Heaven". His hymns also associate him with rainbows as we see in Genesis, and he is called "the good shepherd".

4. Some scholars acknowledge that the Name Yahweh comes from the Cannanite Dragon God Yaw, who like the Biblical Yahweh is a god of storms and floods, but is a "son" of the true Creator Elohim, also the name of the Creator in Genesis, not Yahweh.

5. Virtually every world culture had identified the winged intelligent dragon as a real creature, and most of the earliest cultures recognize it as the creatue that brought them knowledge of agriculture and technology. This is also true in the Judaic legends with the reptilian "watchers".

6. In Exodous, Yahweh leaves his dragon sized tent, and flies ahead of the Israelites to burn away impassable briars and scorpions. He marks the route by spewing smoke and fire.

7. Yahweh plops his huge dragon body in the bed of the Jordan River upstream to divert its flow so the Hebrews can cross its bed to attack Jericho.

8. He is specifically described spewing fire from his mouth and smoke from his nostrils, exactly like the dragon like Leviathan that the Bible states he "plays" with. (A female dragon?)

9. Many biblical passages imply that Yahweh physically consumed his meat offerings unlike the "fake" gods of other cultures. The Bible is very specific that Yahweh wanted salt on his meat as well, suggesting these offereing were physically consumed and not merely burned to ashes.

10. Like many legendary dragons, Yahweh occasionally "consumes" humans as well, to include two of Aaron's sons who prepared a sacrifice wrong. In scripture, Yahweh demanded the first born of all Israelites, but the bible says it was possible to pay him money instead, on a sliding scale, also indicating the univesal dragon love of hoarding treasure.

11. The preferred prey of dragons in most cultures are "human virgins" for reasons which are not entirely understood. This trait is very apparent in the Bible as well, where Moses presents Yahweh with 32 Midianite virgins after the Israelite destruction of this tribe. No more is said of them so we can only assume they were "consumed" like Aaron's sons.

12. The Persian Zoroastrians, whom share much reiligous doctrine with Christianity clearly state in their own scriptures (the Denkard), that the "God" of Judaism and Christianity who watched of the Israelites and provided their laws was a dragon, and brother to the dragon Ahriman in their own religion. Interestingly, the storm dragon of Sumeria who flooded the world happened to be brother to the dragon Enki who livied the the garden of Eden and who "tricked" a man named "Adam" out of eternal life.

13. Some Christian gnostics also state Yahweh is a dragon in their scriptures.

14. Jesus stated the Pharisees were worshipping a creature that was NOT his father. Many Christians claim Jesus meant Satan, but this does not make sense, for the Jews clearly worshipped Yahweh and clearly recognized Satan as a distinctly different creature which they definately DID NOT worship. Could Jesus have been referring to the Yahweh dragon? After all he did not call to Yahweh from the cross, but to El. The first paragraphs of the Bible show these are two different entities, for El's creation story is completely different from Yahweh's, far less scientific one.

15. Yahweh is described with "feathers", as depicted on most of the most acnient dragon wings and this idea lasted until medieval times, after which dragons became less commonly seen.  Saphira in Eragon is reminesecent of these ancient dragon depictions, and probably inspired the design of this character.

Actually there is enough evidence of Yahweh "being a dragon" to literally "fill a book", (as it indeed has, in my upcoming one on this precise subject des), but thought this is an adequate amount of Biblical facts to gender an interesting discussion.

Can anyone refute these Biblical facts? And shouldn't Christians want to embrace these facts, for the worldwide belief in dragons as benificent supernatural entities has far more theological and even scientific precedent than "a bearded old guy on a golden throne? Might it not be a good idea to recreate the fiery flying serpent image Yahweh ordered Moses to make, something very good that cured sickness, and which Yahweh allowed to be worshipped in his temple for centuries, Israel prospering during all the time it was worshipped, and was virtually annihlated as soon as it was broken?
And might there not be some volunteer virgins willing to appease Him for the good of all mankind, not to mention starting up a daily ration of unblemished calves and lambs like the good old days?   And liqour.  He asks for liquor in the Book of Genesis.  (Actually a lot of the ancient Dragon Gods ask for liquor).


#2    Method

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 03:01 PM

I love how you referr to GOD, as a bearded guy on a golden throne, quite stereotypical. An no, I believe my belief in GOD and the holy trinity holds more scientific buoyancy then the dragon theory.

I believe that the consistency's in many different religion's, such as early sumeria where many serpent god's reigned, were passed down into almost folklore, if you will.


#3    Neognosis

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 03:11 PM

Quote

I love how you referr to GOD, as a bearded guy on a golden throne, quite stereotypical. An no, I believe my belief in GOD and the holy trinity holds more scientific buoyancy then the dragon theory.


First off, there's no scientific bouyancy to either the dragon idea or the trinity idea. None. That's why it's faith.


Quote

I believe that the consistency's in many different religion's, such as early sumeria where many serpent god's reigned, were passed down into almost folklore, if you will.


Human nature is the same from race to race, and we all are descended from a comparatively small pool of common ancestors. That's why religions have similarities. We all are thinking with similar minds descended from the same ancestors. Human wants, needs, desires, are all the same, so the religions created from a collective subconscious are going to have similar themes, despite the seperation of time and space.

As for this dragon idea, several of the points mentioned above just aren't true, and those are just the points I'm relatively familar with. So if the few that I know about are distorted, I can only assume others are as well.

Either way, it's entertaining.


#4    Moondoggy

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 04:04 PM

I will begin with your first point about the Jewish Encyclopedia. First of all you are referencing the "babylonian origins" that they posted in it. IF you and anyone here accesses the "Angelology" section of the JE they will see that the Seraphim are considered angels. Secondly this is substantiated in the Jewish Study Bible which is an authorized text for Judaism unlike the JE which is not! Thirdly, the root word for Seraphim is Saraph and is always translated "Firey or "burning" it has absolutely nothing to do with dragones semantically. If Seraphim were dragons the text would have a coupled word that would have used the Hebrew word Tannin.

Also there is no theology in Judaism that Yahweh and Elohim are two different deities. The usage of the words are characteristic definitions of the same God. The Jewish mantra if you will has always been. "The Lord our God is one!" It always has been as such and always will be.




#5    libra II

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 07:48 PM

I have often seen the dragon in Jahweh in the Bible, so don't just put DC down all the time folks, just because Christian indoctrination demands it. I do not believe in dragons, but I do understand symbols and metaphors.


#6    draconic chronicler

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 10:03 PM

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I will begin with your first point about the Jewish Encyclopedia. First of all you are referencing the "babylonian origins" that they posted in it. IF you and anyone here accesses the "Angelology" section of the JE they will see that the Seraphim are considered angels. Secondly this is substantiated in the Jewish Study Bible which is an authorized text for Judaism unlike the JE which is not! Thirdly, the root word for Seraphim is Saraph and is always translated "Firey or "burning" it has absolutely nothing to do with dragones semantically. If Seraphim were dragons the text would have a coupled word that would have used the Hebrew word Tannin.

Also there is no theology in Judaism that Yahweh and Elohim are two different deities. The usage of the words are characteristic definitions of the same God. The Jewish mantra if you will has always been. "The Lord our God is one!" It always has been as such and always will be.


There are many scholarly articles that convincingly argue that orignally El and Yahweh are different Entities.  This is why there are two completely different creation stories in Genesis, the original, evolution friendly version credited to El and the fairy tale version to Yahweh.  And archaeology PROVES  That the original Storm dragon Yaw of Cannanite mythology was the son of El, exactly as it is stated in Psalms, and implied in Deuteronomy.
And BOTH Storm Dragon Yaw, and Yahweh the Storm God acknowledge Ba'al Hadad as their sworn enemy.  WAKE UP Moondog, they are the same diety.  That why the Bible say Yahweh breathes fire, has wings, creates floods, blocks rivers with his body, eats virgins, and hordes gold.  As well as being jealous, vindictive, cruel, and generally ungodlike.  But don't blame him, he's a dragon who works for El, the creator, just like Quin Ling, Queztalcoatl, Kuklakan, etc.  100 million years ago it was the smartest creature to be a heavenly assistant.


We've gone over this time and time again Moondoggy.  NOBODY supports your view.  The Jewish Encyclopeadia isn't the only source that states the Seraphim are reptilian creatures, just about EVERY Encyclopedia states this except Christian sources with an "agenda".  And we have proof from ancient scriptures translated from Hebrew to Greek, translated by the ancient Jewish priests and Rabbis that translated the Seraphim to DRAKONS.  This is an undeniable fact.  And there are BOTH ancient Jewish and Christian scriptures that state in black and white that Drakons reside in Heaven.  By the middle ages even the Jews became ignorant of much of their ancient knowledge that had to be rediscovered through archaology.  And as I explained before, ancient Jewish religious laws prescribed exactly how HOLY DRAKONS must be depicted, and these HOLY DRAKONS decorate the MOST HOLY Jewish religious artifact after the Ark of the covenant, the seven branched Menorah.  

You are living in total denial guy.  The highest heavenly creatures in Judao Christian Theology are Drakons, including Yahweh.

And yes, Yahweh's Personal Idol which the Hebrews had to adore or be killed by dragons (fiery flying serpents) is called the NehashaTAN.  Nehash - Serpent, TAN= Tannyn - DRAGON.  Serpent Dragon, the same Title give to the Sumerian Storm Dragon Enlil who flooded the Earth, and who was renamed Yaw by the Cannanites, and who would become Yahweh.

Below is an article by a Christian who is also an expert in  Hebrew who supports the fact the Seraphim are flying reptiles, EXACTLY as the Jewish Scholars who wrote the Jewish Encyclopedia  say.  

Give it up Moondog.  The thing that supports your idea of the swan winged, Pagan humanoid "cartoon angel" Seraphim, are ignorant people of the middle ages that lost their knowledge in the dark ages, and of course, your Christian Sunday School Coloring books.  All of the archaeology, and ancient scriptures, and Christian and Jewish art ALL SUPPORT the Draconic Seraphim.  It is such common knowledge among real Jews in Israel that the AH 64 Helicopter is called the Seraph, after the Biblical Fiery flying serpent.    You lose.

Serpentine / Reptilian Divine Beings in the
Hebrew Bible: A Preliminary Investigation
Michael S. Heiser
Introduction
The focus of this brief overview into the matter of serpentine /
reptilian beings in the Hebrew Bible arises from a study of the biblical
Mypr#o (seraphim). Traditionally, the word seraphim has been understood to
derive from the Hebrew verb Pr#o (saraph; “to burn” – hence, seraphim
would mean “burning ones” or “fiery ones”). While this is certainly
possible, there is another very plausible (and I would say more likely)
possibility that either eliminates seraph as the root, or co-exists and overlaps
with it (I think the latter). This alternative root would mean there are clear,
unmistakable references to serpentine / reptilian beings in the Hebrew text
of the Old Testament.
Naturally, for readers of The Façade (or inquirers on my website), this
would dovetail with what I refer to as the “Watcher paradigm” – that the
Watchers, reptilian beings described in religious texts of great antiquity (cf.
the Dead Sea fragment 4QAmram), are the “root origin” of the worldwide
serpent mythologies that have serpentine gods / flying serpentine beings
as those divine beings which bestowed high technology to mankind and
which fathered the first line of god-(human) kings.
The Data to Consider
It is plain from the contents of the Hebrew Bible that a saraph is a
serpent. The word (as a singular or plural noun) occurs seven times.
During the desert wanderings of the Israelites under the leadership of
Moses, God judges the people (Numbers 21:6) by sending
~ypir'F.h; ~yvix'N>h; (hannechashim hasseraphim; “seraph serpents”) to bite them.
The translation “seraph serpents” is more accurate than “fiery serpents”
(KJV) as we shall see. When the people prayed (Numbers 21:7) that the
“serpents” (there, nachash) be taken away, Moses intercedes for the people.
God then instructs Moses to make a saraph (Pr#o) and to put it on a pole, so
that all who would look at it would be healed from the bites (Numbers

21:8). Moses responds (Numbers 21:9) by building a tv,xon> vx;n> (nechash
nechosheth). Note that in this narrative, the Hebrew words nachash and
saraph are used interchangeably. This points to the fact that a saraph is not a
“fiery thing” but simply a serpent. As further proof of this
interchangeability, in Deuteronomy 8:15 Yahweh is praised twice for
bringing Israel through the desert with its notorious nachash saraph.
With this interchange as backdrop, the prophet Isaiah’s use of saraph
/ seraphim sets up the issue of reptilian / serpentine divine beings. In Isa.
14: 29 and 30:6, Isaiah mentions the @peA[m. @r'f' (saraph me(opheph; literally,
“flying serpent”). More on this below. The famous throne room vision of
Isaiah in chapter 6 of his book notes that in the throne room of Yahweh
there were seraphim –serpentine beings. These beings also had wings and
could fly, and had human features as well (hands, face, feet):
Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne,
high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphim:
each one had six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his
feet, and with two he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy,
holy, [is] the Lord of hosts: the whole earth [is] full of his glory. 4 And the posts of the
door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. 5
Then said I, Woe [is] me! for I am undone; because I [am] a man of unclean lips, and
I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the
Lord of hosts. Then flew one of the seraphim unto me, having a live coal in his
hand, [which] he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7 And he laid [it] upon
my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and your iniquity is taken away,
and thy sin purged. 8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send,
and who will go for us? Then said I, Here [am] I; send me.
In putting these features together, let’s return first to Isaiah 30:6. In that
text, the flying serpents come from the Negev, that desert area between
Palestine and Egypt. These were either real animals, or the term denoted
some type of spiritual (cosmic) enemy. The latter seems preferable, since
throughout the ancient world certain deities were described in such terms
(flying serpents), and there is no such flying animal.1 The term could also
be used of human enemies, as is implied by the other reference to flying
serpents above, Isaiah 14:29:
1 Some speculate that Isaiah is referencing a pterodactyl-like animal, which is both unlikely and
unnecessary given the surrounding religions.

Isa 14:29 Rejoice not, O Philistia, because the rod of him that smote you is broken:
for out of the serpent's (nachash) root shall come forth an asp, and his fruit shall
be a flying serpent (saraph me(opheph).
%Kem; jb,ve rB;v.nI yKi %LeKu tv,l,p. yxim.f.Ti-la; WTT Isa 14:29
`@peA[m. @r'f' Ayr.piW [p;c, aceyE vx'n" vr,Vomi-yKi
This passage is noteworthy on several levels. Three times the enemy of
Israel, the “chosen seed” (cf. Genesis 3:15ff.) is described in serpentine
terms. The “root” or “seed” (offspring, in Hebrew idiom) is described as
the root of the nachash. Readers of The Façade will instantly recognize this
being as the one in the garden of Eden who seduced Adam and Eve. In The
Façade, I argue that the “serpent” (Hebrew, nachash) in the Eden story of
Genesis 3 was not a snake – it was a divine being, a rebel of the divine
council, which met in Eden, the garden of God.2 God curses all parties
concerned at the Fall in Genesis 3. One of the curses involves the “seed” of
the nachash being bitterly opposed (a perpetual enemy) of the “seed” of the
woman (Eve). The seed of the woman is obviously humanity (and
ultimately, the Messiah; cf. Gal. 3:16). Who are the seed of the nachash?
They are both the original enemies of the divinely chosen seed of the godly
(Noah), produced by fallen divine beings in Genesis 6:1-4. These offspring
are called the nephilim (giants) and gibborim (mighty warriors). The
nephilim and / or gibborim produce succeeding generations of enemies of
God’s chosen seed (Israel). It is no mistake that Moses and Joshua and
their armies continually run into these descendants (like the Anakim; cf.
Deuteronomy 3 and Numbers 13). Later enemies, like the Philistines
spoken of in Isaiah 14:29 above, are logically referred to as the “seed of the
nachash” (recall Goliath the giant was a Philistine, and a descendant of one
the nephilim lines).
Curiously, though, they are also called “flying serpents”. What about that?
2 See Ezekiel 28:10ff. Note the PDF file available on my website bookstore that details
these terms as standard descriptions in ancient Canaan for the divine council’s meeting
place.

In general (preliminary) terms, it seems to me that “flying seraph” would be
a better translation of Isaiah 14:29 –
his fruit shall be a flying seraph (saraph me(opheph).
The meaning behind this, as I see it, is that Israel’s enemies would be
descendants of the reptilian / serpentine beings who seduced human
women in Genesis 6. These beings are called Watchers in the book of 1
Enoch, and are described as reptilian in the Dead Sea fragment, 4QAmram.
It is clear from several passages in 1 Enoch that the writer there considered
the seraphim to be serpentine beings (cf. 1 Enoch 20:7, 71:7; 61:10 – a
description of the cherubim and the serpentine beings who guard God’s
throne –cf. Isaiah 6).
Seraphim, then, are reptilian / serpentine beings – they are the Watchers
(the “watchful ones” who diligently guard God’s throne, which is carried
[cf. Ezekiel 1, 10] by the cherubim, who may also serve as guardians).3
There are “good” serpentine beings (seraphim) who guard God’s throne (so
Isaiah 6’s seraphim), and there are fallen, wicked serpentine beings
(seraphim) who rebelled against the Most High at various times, and who
became the pagan gods of the other nations. Interestingly, 4QAmram adds
a feature to the serpentine Watcher that stands opposed to the good
heavenly watchers: the evil Watchers of 4QAmram are also described as
“dark”. This stands in opposition to the luminous or “brassy” appearance
of good heavenly seraphim.
A Brief note on the Root of Seraphim
Above I noted that there was an alternative root possibility that
dovetails more readily with the serpentine context of seraphim. Rather than
the traditional root of saraph (“to burn”), the root of seraphim may come
from the Egyptian srf (“serpent”). Isaiah especially is known for its
Egyptian flavor in parts, and there are numerous texts and artworks in
3 This conclusion is very tentative, and reflects my suspicion that the reason that descriptions of seraphim,
cherubim, and Watchers (in Daniel) as “human like beings clothed in white linen” have overlapping
features (hands, feet, human face, wings) is that they are names for the same entities (cf. not all cherubim
have four faces, e.g.). This would make Satan an original Watcher – at one time a guardian of the divine
throne. I am still thinking about all this, though, and my views may change.

Egypt that describe and depict serpents. Many of them have the srf as
having wings or flying. Others combine this description with fire (and so
this may give rise to a dual wordplay in the Hebrew Bible – where
seraphim refers to a luminous serpentine divine being). This seems most
consistent.
For further reference (texts and iconography):
Karen Joines, Serpent Symbolism in the Old Testament: A Linguistic,
Archaeological, and Literary Study (Haddonfield House, New Jersey, 1974)
“Serpent” in Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (Brill, 1999)


#7    Archosaur

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 10:12 PM

Well, this one's sure a live grenade.

A have found the link between the Serephim and "fiery flying serpents" before I had even heard of DC. Others have found it independently as well. This one holds up pretty well. Actually, their is logic to DC's points. I, myself had always had trouble with the concept of a benevolent creator, who was also destructive and capricious. I assume that much of this was a bunch of violent nomadic tribes trying to understand how a supreme being would act (if their chieftains are vengeful and petty, then God must be MORE vengeful and petty). I also assumed that much of the supernatural destruction (floods, burning cities, genocide) was probably done by equally zealous angels/seraphrim (we know that they are capable of faults).

So: all of that aside, I am not convinced that Yaweh was a watcher/high seraphim. You'd think he would have corrected the Isrealites that they were worshiping a servant of, and not God himself.


#8    northwest

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 10:47 PM

Quote

snip


you know, you have got me thinking.

Though I'm pretty sure that what they have been encountering has been misinterpreted as the god father, and that
YHWH, whoever he was, was not the father of Jesus.
But the flood has nothing to do with Judaism, and was a part of another story, not involving YHWH.

I didn't do my homework, so I'll ask you, when is the first time that hame YHWH is mentioned in Jewish texts?



Edited by northwest, 18 September 2007 - 10:49 PM.

I believe

#9    truethat

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 10:53 PM



Interesting topic,  I would wager that the argument is rather, is the biblical God based on dragon legend rather than to argue he's an actual dragon.


#10    libra II

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 11:01 PM

Quote

Interesting topic,  I would wager that the argument is rather, is the biblical God based on dragon legend rather than to argue he's an actual dragon.



That's right, girl


#11    libra II

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 11:16 PM

Quote

Interesting topic,  I would wager that the argument is rather, is the biblical God based on dragon legend rather than to argue he's an actual dragon.



It's so funny, why we don't talk anymore......ah ah, and and we don't eat pork anymore


#12    draconic chronicler

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 10:50 AM

Quote

you know, you have got me thinking.

Though I'm pretty sure that what they have been encountering has been misinterpreted as the god father, and that
YHWH, whoever he was, was not the father of Jesus.
But the flood has nothing to do with Judaism, and was a part of another story, not involving YHWH.

I didn't do my homework, so I'll ask you, when is the first time that hame YHWH is mentioned in Jewish texts?


I agree.  Even Jesus plainly states that the Pharisees were worshipping "The Murderer from the beginning", and NOT his Father the Creator.  In Fact, Jesus does not call to Yahweh from the cross, He calls to Eloi (Elohim), who according to Cannanite theology was the Father/Creator of the Storm Dragon Yaw, who would be called Yahweh by the Hebrews.  Chrisitians today believe Jesus is referring to Satan, but this makes knows sense becasue the Pharisees were conciously worshipping Yahweh.

I also agree that the Hebrew flood story is based on the Sumerian one.  But the Sumerian god who causes the flood is called a dragon, just as Yaw, who becomes Yahweh is called a dragon, ans who is responsible for the same flood.  They are clearly the same dragon God known to different people by different names.

Yahweh is first mentioned in Genesis, during the "second creation story".  Many scholars believe this was added by the "Yahwehist Priests" much later, and it is completly different with man being created first, before everything else.  The Elohim creation is remarkably consistent with Evolution, with life beginning in the sea, with fish, then dragons (dinosaurs) with birds, followed by mammals and man on the last day.


#13    draconic chronicler

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 10:56 AM

Quote

Interesting topic,  I would wager that the argument is rather, is the biblical God based on dragon legend rather than to argue he's an actual dragon.


Fine.  But then explain why cultures all over the world ALL believed in giant talking, flying  reptiles that taught people technologies, liked virgin sacrifices, spewed fire, and hoarded treasure.  Just seeing a few dinosaur bones really doesn't cut it, and for centuries even the most educated men reported dragons as real creatures.  One "dragon" has been reported 10,000 times since 1932, only we no longer use the "D-word" in describing it.


#14    Neognosis

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 12:47 PM

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explain why cultures all over the world ALL believed in giant talking, flying reptiles that taught people technologies, liked virgin sacrifices, spewed fire, and hoarded treasure.


Because we are all human beings with the same higher reasoning functions. Explain why all human cultures independently breast feed their children, tell bedtime stories, invent legends, explore, travel distances in search of the unknown, gaze at the stars, etc. etc.

We are all the same species. It is no miracle or wonder that we invented the same types of supernatural beings.


#15    northwest

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 01:04 PM

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I also agree that the Hebrew flood story is based on the Sumerian one.  But the Sumerian god who causes the flood is called a dragon, just as Yaw, who becomes Yahweh is called a dragon, ans who is responsible for the same flood.  They are clearly the same dragon God known to different people by different names.


Actually that's not what I had min mind.
Flood is not just a Sumerian myth. You can even find a native american legend of a flood and a hollow tree of cypress in which a Noahian figure puts various animals.
I think sumerian attribution of flood to YAH is pretty much as misguided as Jewish attribution of YHWH to Father.
What I think is that flood was indeed a collective decision of the entire council of gods, and the Father, as a way of starting a new world.
They needed a planet with suitable vessels where souls can incarnate, but earth at the time was just anything but that, it was no place
where you can send souls to learn and grow, so it needed to be destroyed to make a new generation of vessels.
The entire ecosystem had been corrupted in one way or another by meddling of all kinds of gods, and entities from other worlds,
and they simply chose the purest lines of creatures to mend what had been done.
You find find entries in the Bible and other texts suggesting that these beings not only mixed with people, but with animals too.
In fact, the legend of Mu says that it was flooded because the reptilian people inhabiting it were matting with all kinds of animals.

It doesn't mean that every person destroyed in the flood was punished and went to hell. It really has nothing to do with that.
It was a plan of destroying the genetic lineages that had been created so far. Its not revenge, it's gardening of biological life.

I believe




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