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does god exist


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#16    Xenojjin

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 03:18 AM

  He is saying god cant exist since monkeys are still around , ( obvious ). assuming somehow that evolution goes hand in hand with gods creation and that since monkeys are still around if their was a god their would be no need for monkeys ( were this comes from I do not know ) and since monkeys exist god must not exist either since the void is a cosmicly enhanced higher being that knows all , see's all , and can tell all .   blink.gif



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#17    bathory

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 04:58 AM

QUOTE
ATHEIST
The bible is false *Rambles* because *some text* contradicts *some other text* 

NON ATHEIST
that text doesnt contradict itself because it really means *Rant* 

ATHEIST
what about *this text* ... *rambles about logic behind evolution* 

NON ATHEIST
that text is fine because *Rambles* ... *rambles about illogic in evolution* 

ATHEIST
*rambles about more logic in evolution and illogic in creation* 

NON ATHEIST
*rambles about creation vs desighn issues and throws in some morals from bible* 

ATHEIST
*rambles* 

NON ATHEIST
*rambles* 


BOTH
*go on in repetitive fashion for 2 more pages*



*giggles* you give far to much credit to your theist brethren.
trying to disprove evolution is like trying to disprove the moon landings:)
as for contradictions in the bible, there are plenty, thats a fact, twisting the meanings around in an attempt show otherwise is plain silly:)

you should have said
"logic wins"
"theist puts fingers in ears and sings"
and then have the mod enter the picture:)

remember kiddies, faith is not proof.


#18    Xenojjin

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 05:22 AM

*coughs* apperantly bathory also knows everything , for he is always right . Their is no way evolution cannot be responsible for all that is . It is logical because bathory says so . Bathory must be right .



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#19    crosswarrior

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 06:08 AM

QUOTE (bathory @ Jan 9 2004, 03:58 AM)

trying to disprove evolution is like trying to disprove the moon landings:)
as for contradictions in the bible, there are plenty, thats a fact, twisting the meanings around in an attempt show otherwise is plain silly:)


remember kiddies, faith is not proof.

     Ok Bathory; then lets try and disprove the lunar landing so to speak. But lets assume for the moment that Evolution is completely responible for everything that exist; there is no intelligent design (this includes all "Alien breeding theories") in anything in this part of Space-Time. We will say for the sake of arguement that it all really did start out with a "Big Bang," caused by a chunk of compressed matter. This "Big Bang" then in time brought about the solar system; and in such a way that it is able to sustain life. Completing the circle by actually creating living cells, out of non-living cells; and all merely by chance.
      There is a few "contradictions" that I see in this explaination.
1. Where did the matter that started the "Big Bang" come from if the "Big Bang" is responsible for creating everything?
2. How do planets arrainge themselves so that they are suitable for life forms; when the planet does not think, and therefore cannot calibrate itself to fit those life forms.
3. How does a fried out chunk of non-organic dust become alive anyways?

     Oh! And remember we need proof! Faith in Evolution will not work! thumbsup.gif    

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(Justice, though heaven fall)

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#20    bathory

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 07:33 AM

QUOTE
1. Where did the matter that started the "Big Bang" come from if the "Big Bang" is responsible for creating everything?


perhaps it was always there? perhaps the universe is in a constant cycle of being reborn? just because we can't answer that is in no way evidence of a creator god...
what created god?

QUOTE
How do planets arrainge themselves so that they are suitable for life forms; when the planet does not think, and therefore cannot calibrate itself to fit those life forms.


they don't...where the heck did you come up with that one?

QUOTE
How does a fried out chunk of non-organic dust become alive anyways?


well think about it, everything at its most basic form is made up of 'non-organic dust', as far as my understanding of it is, chemical reactions occured, creating amino acids, amino acids form together creating proteins, etc etc Seraphina could most likely explain it far better than i can

QUOTE
Oh! And remember we need proof! Faith in Evolution will not work!


now you guys will whine about me using a link as a proof, but i'm not about to go and write up pages and pages of crap just to satisfy your urges:)
some proofs of evo

now if you actually read it, please feel free to comment on and dispute anything there.

care to offer some creationist evidence?..

QUOTE
apperantly bathory also knows everything , for he is always right . Their is no way evolution cannot be responsible for all that is . It is logical because bathory says so . Bathory must be right .


actually, its logical because when logic is applied to it, it stands the test...
but points for trying:)


#21    Althalus

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 08:07 AM

Going off at an angle here: -  

Isn't it good to finally see a 'religious' discussion not go up in flames after the first three posts?  So refreshing.

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#22    doink

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 08:51 AM

Great experience with the child, I'd have loved to hear it. Thanks for sharing it. As for the question of the existence of God, I think the only evidence someone can have is their own experience. As this can be life changing, and mean a lot to them, they become very offended if someone else ridicules that experience, and the person. It is for this reason that some choose not to reveal the experience, or at least not all of it. On the other hand, someone who has not had an experience like that may wonder why it couldn't happen for them, and since there's nothing wrong with them then the experience must not be true. And then there are others who've been mistreated in some way associated with a certain belief. They seem to want to prove that every thing about that belief is wrong, to vindicate the hurt they felt. There are those that have a belief, yet decide that their belief is the only one that is right, and all others are wrong. I beleve these people have a deep fear of the unknown.
They all have something in common.


#23    Aslan

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 09:37 AM

I'm sorry to say this sonofkrypton, but I'm extremely sceptical that this story ever happened, for the simple reason that I've already read it somewhere else. It's been around for a while now, and seems to be nothing more than an urban legend.


#24    sonofkrypton

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 11:39 AM

ASLAN i'm only relaying something i was told being an atheist i dont personally know what to think and having only met this boy twice b4 i would not like to call him or a family member i only posted it as a conversation piece to learn what other people think, i'm sorry if it appears to be a lie  sad.gif


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#25    Seraphina

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 12:53 PM

my my my...well, spoke too soon of the religious debate front, didn't I? tongue.gif

QUOTE
apperantly bathory also knows everything , for he is always right


Better to be all knowing than all following wink2.gif



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Apparantly, over on Exchristian.Net, they say that I'm "probably the smartest person" on UM....that is so cool...

#26    Void

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 02:12 PM

Even if you are an Atheist you can still consider that perhaps having blind faith in a God may be more beneficial to yourself and the species, than knowing God might not exist, even if that may be true.


#27    Seraphina

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 02:21 PM

I doubt that very much...historically, religion has caused far more harm to humanity than good. There's no denying that, it's a recorded fact...religion is one of the greatest divides that can exist between different peoples, and has and still does result in hatred and killing.

'Blind' faith is hardly something I'd consider a benefit to humanity, nope cool.gif The very fact that it's called blind means that it goes against all logic and rational thinking.

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Apparantly, over on Exchristian.Net, they say that I'm "probably the smartest person" on UM....that is so cool...

#28    DespondentDave

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 02:35 PM

QUOTE (shirini @ Jan 8 2004, 10:57 PM)
I almost cried when I read this.  crying.gif
See this is why children never question the existents of god and other things, they already know, like we did once!  sad.gif

I similarly wish to weep when I witness such blissful naivety amongst people.

The lad is four years old, and mummy and daddy had never told them about God or Jesus, and that is considered proof of God, I mean come on....

When I was four I remember sitting in a bath and asking my mum "if I could have a piss". Amusing as this may seem, the point is relevant. I had never heard that word from my mum. I had heard it in the playground, thought it was right and proper, and a nice new word to my dictionary, and therefore used it. (PS Mum was none too impressed)

Four year old children are very attentive. They hear things from a whole range of sources, not just their immediate family. Television, discussions in the supermarket, nursery, playgrounds etc. If said parents believe that the only things their son ever learn is from them, then I seriously doubt their mental capacity to be parents.

I was brought up a Catholic, but the more time goes on the more you realise that 95% of religion is made up. It's a way of explaining the wonders of the universe without having to think too rationally about it. "So where did we all come from mummy?" "God created us dear". "Great. That's that then. Game on"

There may well be an afterlife. There may well be a God of some description. None of us know anything for sure, but considering the many thousands of different types of religions, no matter how primitive they are, I continually find it astounding that people are so certain that theirs is the correct one. What is more disturbing is the insistance of enforcing these beliefs on their children (but that's another story). The reason a lot of children do not question the existence of God is because they are told by their parents that it is fact (Gospel if you like). Small children do not believe that their parents would ever tell a lie to them. That's just the innocent world in which they live.


#29    sonofkrypton

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 02:43 PM

i understand wot you said i also dont believe in enforcing reloigion on small children all i know is that he hasn't started school yet and has never been to nursery and never watches programs of a religious nature so his sources are limited in his surroundings to have formed his question

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#30    DespondentDave

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Posted 09 January 2004 - 02:49 PM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Jan 9 2004, 01:21 PM)
I doubt that very much...historically, religion has caused far more harm to humanity than good. There's no denying that, it's a recorded fact...religion is one of the greatest divides that can exist between different peoples, and has and still does result in hatred and killing.

'Blind' faith is hardly something I'd consider a benefit to humanity, nope cool.gif The very fact that it's called blind means that it goes against all logic and rational thinking.

Examples of how 'blind faith' is not necessarily a good thing:-

Let's look at September 11th 2001? The terrorists in question were quite convinced that their actions would lead them to an eternity in paradise. It's only when you look from the outside at their beliefs, you realise just how ridiculous they were.

For me there is no greater evil than two parents allowing their son/daughter to die because their religion bans them from having a blood transfusion. Another example of enforcing beliefs on people who may, if they had reached adulthood, have had totally different beliefs themselves. I'm sorry, but if there is an all loving God out there, do you seriously believe that he would condemn you to Hell for receiving blood from another person when you are not even old enough to know anything about it!? This happened to a young boy in our town many years back. In all probability he could have been saved by a blood transfusion. The parents refused admission, the little lad died, but that's OK because he was off to paradise (How the f#ck do they know? It's one hell of a big risk don't you think?). Well if there is a just God up there, those parents should be sent packing to Hell the minute they depart this Earth!  





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