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Beyond the Border of Space.


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#1    BELOWIM

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 07:54 AM

This is something that's odd, has alway's intrigued me ever since I can remember, what is happening at the very edge of our known Space?? Is there more Space beyond Space? Or doe's it loop back in some kinda vortexial way? Is it a dimensional hole? Apart from that restaurant that's there little is known of this strange unexplored or seen Zone. If it is truely expanding, then what is it expanding into? More Space? I know this subject will possibly hurt some head's but I would really like to KnoW your thought's on this as I'm sure no thoery can be disproven, and more importantly no law's will be effected? Are we in the centre or left of centre? Top or bottom? Can it be possible that beyond Space is nothing, Ouch my head hurt's HELP....??? Below is all the picture's I could get of this area!! Beyond Mystery?


#2    boorite

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 11:17 AM

There's no "beyond space" in the same sense that there is no "before time." It's a fundamental quantity, which is to say it can't be known via other quantities, and other quantities are in fact defined in terms of it. It can be (and is) defined only operationally, by arbitrary units of measurement. In philosophical terms, it's an a priori assumption.

When physicists say that space is expanding, they mean only that distances between any two points in the universe are increasing. They don't mean that space is a container that is expanding into a spacelessness "outside" of it, just as time is not understood as proceeding into any sort of timelessness that comes "after" it.

What's "there" outside space? The answer isn't exactly "nothing." A better answer is, there is no "there" there.

Can it be possible that space is nothing? Yes, in a sense.

Anyway, your head will hurt less if you don't try to define space in terms of anything outside it or more fundamental than it. You'll be relieved to know that the reason it makes your head hurt is that it can't be done. It helps me to think of space as a relationship between physical bodies, and without any physical bodies, there is no space. I think that's close to the right way to see it.


#3    BELOWIM

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 11:49 AM

Yes Space and time are interrelated , but Space is defined as an area which is empty?? I don't get that bit ? Empty Space nothingness? O.k we have Space between between things but I'm talking about Beyond Space. Nice answer boorite, but not conclusive, added sight but the whole conception is? Please don't email S.H. This really is a good question for Physicists and Astral traveller's alike.


#4    boorite

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 12:14 PM

Quote

O.k we have Space between between things but I'm talking about Beyond Space.


What is giving you a headache is that you are beginning to understand that "talking about Beyond Space" is strictly impossible, and yet you are still trying to do it.

I suppose that it might help you to choose a definition of "space" before trying to ask what might be "beyond" it.


#5    BELOWIM

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 02:20 PM

"'Impossible" something that can not happen! that's great so your saying Its impossible that Space is Infinate or has boundarys?  Where's the limit, if your talking impossible then Space can't happen, but we know it doe's so I,m wondering were this limiting point is?....


#6    BELOWIM

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 02:46 PM

"no before time" is misconceptual I can not relate to that? what do you perceive the beggining of time to be?? Space /Time we are starting to get fundamental observation, I thank you, ?????????????????


#7    boorite

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 03:23 PM

Quote

"'Impossible" something that can not happen! that's great so your saying Its impossible that Space is Infinate or has boundarys?


No. What I said was really simple.

Quote

"no before time" is misconceptual I can not relate to that?


I don't know what this means or if it is a question or a statement or what.

Quote

what do you perceive the beggining of time to be??


Seems to be around 15 billion years ago. Whenever it was, there is no "before" that. Similarly, if time stretches back infinitely, then there is no "before" it. Time is a fundamental quantity. And so is space. Neither can be stated in any terms that are more basic than themselves. Furthermore, the nature of language is such that you can't even compose a sentence that does not assume the existence of both. For these reasons, it is impossible to talk about "beyond space" or "before time" or indeed "after" time. It is strictly nonsensical.

The conceptual error that many people make is to think of space as a container, and so if space is expanding, then it must be expanding into something, even if that something is said to be "nothing." That's incorrect. Space is all the space there is, and there is nowhere for it to expand "into." It just expands, i.e., points in space get farther apart over time.


#8    BELOWIM

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 03:49 PM

"before" A strange statement as the word itself mean's something before it!"time is a fundamental quality.And so is space."So your saying something before Space/Time, I wonder What?


#9    boorite

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 07:08 PM

No, that is not what I wrote there. Never mind.


#10    Mademoiselle

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 12:15 AM

Quote

"'Impossible" something that can not happen! that's great so your saying Its impossible that Space is Infinate or has boundarys?  Where's the limit, if your talking impossible then Space can't happen, but we know it doe's so I,m wondering were this limiting point is?....



Hey there BELOWIM ,

I remember there was  this fascinating thread about "nothing being something"  by our UM friend BraveNewWorld recently . Check it out .

Oh , and welcome on the UM .. with such questions and thoughts , i'm sure u'll love it . Enjoy .

Oh ,  and by the way , regarding your initial thought about space  ... i think there are parallel spaces .. beyond ours .. alternative spaces .. something to do with multiplicity !
Probably the same way all info about our  DNA  is found in every shread of a cell of our body . Over and over and over .

Edited by Sama, 18 October 2007 - 12:17 AM.

La vie est un long fleuve tranquille .....

#11    SameerPrehistorica

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 11:21 PM

whoever think of this...their head is going to hurt for sure.........
  no one can find we are in left or right or etc...............it is expandind to more space.that is true.but how more it will expand and i wonder how its corner will be............still many questions will rise up

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#12    BELOWIM

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 08:46 PM

Thank's Sama, meanwhile. Oh my gosh! I posted this topic for the reason of my first statement. To throw idea's around. I would just as rather hear from a 5 year old that BELOWIM this is what is happening .its? or the scientist who invented the world's most powerful telescope and see's? or an astral traveller who's been there? or the alien from planet Zeta X who live's next to the border?or the mathamatician who equate's O+U-T / T-HxE*R=E? or the prophet that see's ? or the dreamer? When I said my head hurt's was a metaphor for LOL. Thinking outside the box is grand, here's the oppurtunity to do that. It's about imagination and speculation alike, maybe I should have put this topic in the funny's but it is real and is Unexplained? And a Mystery? As far as I'm concerned it could be where the God's go on there off day's to play hockey? LOL I actually have a theory on this but that's to come?..................Show me your idea's that's the challenge ALL?


#13    too_animalistic

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 08:05 AM

BELOWIM on Oct 19 2007, 03:46 PM, said:

Thank's Sama, meanwhile. Oh my gosh! I posted this topic for the reason of my first statement. To throw idea's around. I would just as rather hear from a 5 year old that BELOWIM this is what is happening .its? or the scientist who invented the world's most powerful telescope and see's? or an astral traveller who's been there? or the alien from planet Zeta X who live's next to the border?or the mathamatician who equate's O+U-T / T-HxE*R=E? or the prophet that see's ? or the dreamer? When I said my head hurt's was a metaphor for LOL. Thinking outside the box is grand, here's the oppurtunity to do that. It's about imagination and speculation alike, maybe I should have put this topic in the funny's but it is real and is Unexplained? And a Mystery? As far as I'm concerned it could be where the God's go on there off day's to play hockey? LOL I actually have a theory on this but that's to come?..................Show me your idea's that's the challenge ALL?


Whats beyond space is that the question? I would propose more space. But the edge of space I suppose if it was finite would meet with non-space. But then I could ask if there is a location where non-space and space meet, whats on the other side of the non-space. I would have to assume more space or a third type of existence being niether space nor non-space. And since the non-space would not be space it would seem that we would not observe the edge of space and non-space meeting but rather the edge of space and more space, or space and the 3rd existence of niether space nor non-space. but since this 3rd existence is not non-space it would have propeties of space and non-space, and it would ultimatley be the edge of where space meets space or where space meets lesser space.

Heres another possiblity. Space does not exist as we percieve it. Remove time from the equation for a second. Imagine everything wrapped up into a sphere. Every single possible wave of existence throughout all times except for time itself is observable in this sphere. One possible scenario overlaps another in this sphere sharing the same space just existing spearately in separate times. But since we took time out of the equation we see no difference from location (a) in space from location (cool.gif in space because of the maximum denseness of the space filled and overlapped with infinite possibilites. Possiblities are truley infinite because you can always add a duplicate changing the sum but for the sake of visualizing it we restrict everything into a sphere. Now lets take the infinite length of time and fit it into a sphere of equal size. now overlap these spheres. One solid sphere of spactial existences in every possible possiblity being interlaced with a sphere of an infinite line of time(I imagine this would look like a sphere of nerve branches so dense there is no recognition of where the branches are. Now with gravity we can both pull and push the speheres opposite eachother to rotate them in differentiated revolutions. The intersection of a single unit of space and time could then be labeled as a single perspective. In this scenario the only border of space is when time is not intersecting with it and this could if time and space were in separate spheres, so what if we put them both back into one sphere so they share equall size and there is no unit of space without a unit of time in its space.  Here there is no boundary. Space and time are all there is. It's just infinite.


#14    ShaunZero

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 08:34 AM

I've always wondered this myself. And no one's explaination seems to satisfy the answer. I honestly think that's because the truth is....... we don't know.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" ~ George Carlin
Are you a cynic?

#15    BELOWIM

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 10:24 AM

That was a great read too animalistic, I congratulate on what was obviously deep thought and your observations are good theory. The idea of non-Space is interesting. So we now have two fundamental constant's which are Space and Time, these are not enough to work with! I need more??? This beat's the pant's off of talking about Alien boogie being's in my book! Beside's that it's our Space not their's, LOL. I think might hereby declare a Name for this Region/Border I,ll call it The Never Never.





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