[The Spartan]

Quote

The Tărtăria tablets are three tablets, discovered in Tărtăria, Romania. They bear incised symbols that have been the subject of considerable controversy among archaeologists, some of whom claim that the symbols represent the earliest known form of writing in the world.

The Tartaria Tablets

Quote

The tablets are generally believed to have belonged to the Vinča culture, which at the time was believed by Serbian and Romanian archaeologists to have originated around 2700 BC. Vlassa interpreted the Tărtăria tablets as a hunting scene and the other two with signs as a kind of primitive writing similar to the early pictograms of the Sumerians. The discovery caused great interest in the archeological world as it predated the first Minoan writing, the oldest known writing in Europe. It was suggested by some that the symbols indicated some sort of connection between south-eastern Europe and Sumerian Mesopotamia.

However, subsequent radiocarbon dating on the Tartaria finds pushed the date of the tablets (and therefore of the whole Vinča culture) much further back, to as long ago as 5500 BC, well before the Sumerian era [2] (although this is disputed in the light of apparently contradictory stratigraphic evidence [3]).

If the symbols are indeed a form of writing, then writing in the Danubian culture would far predate the earliest Sumerian cuneiform script or Egyptian [1]. They would thus be the world's earliest known form of writing. This claim remains controversial.

All quotes, Pictures from wikipedia.org

I just came across this on the wikipedia. but there not much further given on this? any body know more on this stuff?

This post has been edited by coredrill: 10 November 2007 - 08:16 AM

[The Spartan]

since the radio carbon dating is sort of a last word..no one has a word?
Funny!

Mods..could anyone close this topic?

[HollyDolly]

Thanks for posting this information.This is the first I have heard of them.
Too bad so far all they have found is three tablets.However there could be more out there.
If they find more,they could try to decipher the writing. Will have to look for more info on it on the net.

[angrycrustacean]

I guess it all depends on how writing is being defined - if pictographs are counted then I can certainly see that these could be writing. On the other hand, with so few specimens it's kind of hard to tell the difference between a pictograph and a decorative/symbolic carving.

HollyDolly on Nov 13 2007, 02:56 PM, said:

If they find more,they could try to decipher the writing. Will have to look for more info on it on the net.

Not necessarily true - even though much Egyptian writing was known, archaeologists still needed the Rosetta Stone to begin to decipher it.

However if more tablets were found with similar motifs and/or designs in them, it could be reasonably assumed that it was an early form of writing/pictographs, and not just pictures.

[Malruhn]

These are stone/clay, and radio carbon dating only works on once-living stuff (bone/animal/plant matter). They could date the stuff the items were found with, but that is wildly inaccurate (I have a ring on my finger that is almost 200 years old... as well as a metal buckle that was made within the last six months...).

However, this IS a cool find! I'll have to keep reading! Nice linky and post!

[1.618]

Hello coredrill, here's a few relevant links i found. I'd never heard of them before. It's amazing what you keep digging up in your back garden
http://www.prehistor..._populara01.htm

http://www.prehistory.it/ftp/winn4.htm

http://links.jstor.o...%3E2.0.CO%3B2-0

http://users.cwnet.c...mer-origins.htm

[crystal sage]

Two of them look like protective amulets...

The links given by 1.618 mention the Danube script...

they do look similar...

http://www.prehistor...adeisegni1i.htm

[crystal sage]

http://phoenicia.org/demotic.html

This post has been edited by crystal sage: 14 November 2007 - 12:37 AM

[Legatus Legionis]

coredrill on Nov 13 2007, 06:46 PM, said:

since the radio carbon dating is sort of a last word..no one has a word?
Funny!

Mods..could anyone close this topic?

why close the topic?

back to topic.

how would this be controversial the present language came from that.

[The Spartan]

LiGhTyAgAmi on Nov 14 2007, 10:04 PM, said:

why close the topic?

back to topic.

how would this be controversial the present language came from that.

Quote

The tablets are generally believed to have belonged to the Vinča culture, which at the time was believed by Serbian and Romanian archaeologists to have originated around 2700 BC. Vlassa interpreted the Tărtăria tablets as a hunting scene and the other two with signs as a kind of primitive writing similar to the early pictograms of the Sumerians. The discovery caused great interest in the archeological world as it predated the first Minoan writing, the oldest known writing in Europe. It was suggested by some that the symbols indicated some sort of connection between south-eastern Europe and Sumerian Mesopotamia.

However, subsequent radiocarbon dating on the Tartaria finds pushed the date of the tablets (and therefore of the whole Vinča culture) much further back, to as long ago as 5500 BC, well before the Sumerian era [2] (although this is disputed in the light of apparently contradictory stratigraphic evidence [3]).

If the symbols are indeed a form of writing, then writing in the Danubian culture would far predate the earliest Sumerian cuneiform script or Egyptian [1]. They would thus be the world's earliest known form of writing. This claim remains controversial.

If the script is older than the currently establised older scripts of sumerian cuneiform and egyptian hieroglyphics......it is of course contrevorsial!!

This post has been edited by coredrill: 15 November 2007 - 03:14 PM

[crystal sage]

http://www.sfgate.co...c...227.DTL&o=0
Cave's ancient treasure / 77,000-year-old artifacts could mean human culture began in Africa



http://www.bbc.co.uk...hinktrans.shtml

[crystal sage]

The logic... that Man was unevolved.. were unable to communicate thru script ..pre..what ever time archaeologists can find evidence for...still puzzles me... there are more and more discoveries of ancient cities.. submerged cities... and like the Pyramids.. evidence of amazing building skills (yet they think they weren't smart enough to have thought of the wheel) ..

Just think how many books.. magazines.. videos...forms of communication will survive us.. to be dug up thousands of years from now??

everything will have decomposed..rusted..... unless they were carefully preserved... and even then .. we would be pushing it... maybe all that will remain are perhaps some of our sturdiest structures... and some bits of pottery... glass... most metals may have been dug up or recycled ..or resold over hundreds.. thousands of years for a few or many Euros.. or dollars...

If you see how earth naturally recycles all.. via bioremediation...

http://en.wikipedia..../Bioremediation


" from dust to dust"
I am surprised that there is very much left at all... We may be seen as primitive waring neanderthols to our future generations..

Just because no evidence can be found yet.. it doesn't mean it never happened..
Mostly all we have are word of mouth... legends... passed down thru generation .. to generation over thousands of years....

This post has been edited by crystal sage: 18 November 2007 - 03:14 AM