Personally, I do not agree with it. Innocent people have been executed. criminals say if they had have thought of the death penalty, they would have made sure they killed any witnesses. I don't think it works.
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The Death Penalty
Do you agree with it?
Started by Cercea , Jan 18 2004 03:14 AM
Started by Cercea , Jan 18 2004 03:14 AM
132 replies to this topic
#1
Cercea
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 03:14 AM
#2
Seraphina
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 10:22 AM
I still believe that, at the end of the day, there are certain things that human beings don't do...human beings do not needlessly kill a person in cold blood...and quite frankly, when you do that, you no longer have the right to be considered a human being.
I consider the death penalty an alternative to putting people in prison who will, quite frankly, never be rehabilitated...however, obviously the criminal system isn't perfect, so I think there would need to be certain standards set to make sure that no mistakes were made...my usual theory is that, if the jury return a unanimous verdict, then it can be considered proven beyond any doubt that the person has commited these crimes, and the death penalty may be issued (obviously, I'm talking in cases like murder and so on, not everyday crimes
)
I think it would really need to be up to the judge's discretion whether he thought the person was capable of rehabilitation...perhaps a specialist physcologist could even be consulted on the matter (heck, their fee would be a damn sight cheaper than paying to support the guy in prison for life).
However, look at it this way...if the death penalty was enforced, do you not think it would act as a very firm deterant?
On the whole though, I'm all for vigillantes going down into subways and killing muggers ala death Wish, but oh well
I consider the death penalty an alternative to putting people in prison who will, quite frankly, never be rehabilitated...however, obviously the criminal system isn't perfect, so I think there would need to be certain standards set to make sure that no mistakes were made...my usual theory is that, if the jury return a unanimous verdict, then it can be considered proven beyond any doubt that the person has commited these crimes, and the death penalty may be issued (obviously, I'm talking in cases like murder and so on, not everyday crimes
)I think it would really need to be up to the judge's discretion whether he thought the person was capable of rehabilitation...perhaps a specialist physcologist could even be consulted on the matter (heck, their fee would be a damn sight cheaper than paying to support the guy in prison for life).
However, look at it this way...if the death penalty was enforced, do you not think it would act as a very firm deterant?
On the whole though, I'm all for vigillantes going down into subways and killing muggers ala death Wish, but oh well
Apparantly, over on Exchristian.Net, they say that I'm "probably the smartest person" on UM....that is so cool...
#3
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 12:24 PM
Yeah vigilantes ROCK! *gives seraphina a potato sack* you gotta supply your own doorknobs >_>;;
However giving the death penalty is not a suitable punishment. In the end he/she is still getting away with it, because death is a release. A more suitable punishment is thus:
Blind him/her, Deafen him/her, Paralyse him, feed the bugger/buggeress through a tube, the person in question will only have their mind for company, and this will be a very lonely existance, imagine spending thirty years not being able to see hear or move with only your thoughts as company? To me this is more unbearable than spending 3 hours with des 'o' connor.
However giving the death penalty is not a suitable punishment. In the end he/she is still getting away with it, because death is a release. A more suitable punishment is thus:
Blind him/her, Deafen him/her, Paralyse him, feed the bugger/buggeress through a tube, the person in question will only have their mind for company, and this will be a very lonely existance, imagine spending thirty years not being able to see hear or move with only your thoughts as company? To me this is more unbearable than spending 3 hours with des 'o' connor.
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Cadjole....i like that word, so much more sophisticated than bludgeon.
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#4
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 02:00 PM
I'm not interesting in punishment for scum, so much as ensuring that they'll never be in a position to victimise someone else. I believe in protecting the innocent far more than spending time and money trying to rehabilitate criminals.
Apparantly, over on Exchristian.Net, they say that I'm "probably the smartest person" on UM....that is so cool...
#5
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 02:14 PM
Criminal who have shown that they are capable of crimes such as rape, murder, kiddnapping... are no longer worthy of mercy of any kind. In that cause the nice, Christian, Biblical thing to do ; would be to either stone them or impale them, or burn them to death.
But personally I think that if the person is caught in the act they should just have their existance ended right then and there.
But personally I think that if the person is caught in the act they should just have their existance ended right then and there.
Fiat justitia ruat caelum.
(Justice, though heaven fall)
Enter freely. Go safely and leave something of the happiness you bring.
(Justice, though heaven fall)
Enter freely. Go safely and leave something of the happiness you bring.
#6
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 04:30 PM
This is a tough one for me. Over the years I have gone back and forth on the issue several times...
I think that some criminals are such evil and horrible human beings that they really don't deserve to be counted amongst the human population. Cold blooded Killers, rapists, and child molesters need to be dealt with in a permenant fashion. It allows some small degree of closure for the victims family. It also sends a message that such crimes will not be tolerated in our society.
Unfortunately, there are two small problems that occur when enforcing the death penalty:
1. Mistakes happen in our court system in a frightening regularity...The wrong people are convicted in a higher percentage of cases that most would like to beleive. The death penalty is quite permamanent, allowing for no chance to take back any mistakes on the states' behalf.
2. What kind of message are we sending when we punish our citizens for killing by killing them? Because the court does it, does that some how make it OK?
Prosecutors have a stunning amount of power in our court system, they decide who to charge and what charges to file against someone. The prosecutors are just people who make mistakes like everyone else, but they are responsible for putting citizens in jail for long periods of time and in extreme cases the try for the death penalty.
In serious crimes where the death penalty is considered, the pressure from the community and victims families for a conviction is extreme. Does the pressure that the prosecutor feels to convict someone for a crime ever cloud their judgement? Do they sometimes want to give closure to a grieving family that they empathise with so strongly that it clouds their thought process?
Trials are supposed to protect the innocent from being falsely convicted, but that doesn't always happen. Sometimes people are convicted on circumstancial evidence alone. How many people have had their cases overturned when DNA testing was introduced into their appeals cases? thousands...How many innocent people are still serving time in jail because of an overzealous prosecutor?
Because of the above reason, I think that the death penalty is not a good idea. It is just too permanent and irrevocable to be fair.
I think that some criminals are such evil and horrible human beings that they really don't deserve to be counted amongst the human population. Cold blooded Killers, rapists, and child molesters need to be dealt with in a permenant fashion. It allows some small degree of closure for the victims family. It also sends a message that such crimes will not be tolerated in our society.
Unfortunately, there are two small problems that occur when enforcing the death penalty:
1. Mistakes happen in our court system in a frightening regularity...The wrong people are convicted in a higher percentage of cases that most would like to beleive. The death penalty is quite permamanent, allowing for no chance to take back any mistakes on the states' behalf.
2. What kind of message are we sending when we punish our citizens for killing by killing them? Because the court does it, does that some how make it OK?
Prosecutors have a stunning amount of power in our court system, they decide who to charge and what charges to file against someone. The prosecutors are just people who make mistakes like everyone else, but they are responsible for putting citizens in jail for long periods of time and in extreme cases the try for the death penalty.
In serious crimes where the death penalty is considered, the pressure from the community and victims families for a conviction is extreme. Does the pressure that the prosecutor feels to convict someone for a crime ever cloud their judgement? Do they sometimes want to give closure to a grieving family that they empathise with so strongly that it clouds their thought process?
Trials are supposed to protect the innocent from being falsely convicted, but that doesn't always happen. Sometimes people are convicted on circumstancial evidence alone. How many people have had their cases overturned when DNA testing was introduced into their appeals cases? thousands...How many innocent people are still serving time in jail because of an overzealous prosecutor?
Because of the above reason, I think that the death penalty is not a good idea. It is just too permanent and irrevocable to be fair.
Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.
People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.
People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.
#7
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 06:42 PM
spot on fluffy bunny agree with everything you say m8Seraphina i think your wrong about the death penalty being a deterent. I mean places where they have it still have plenty of murders and rape etc. The thing is if someone is evil they're evil and the threat of the death penalty won't stop them or even make them think twice. These people would just do it anyway.
I do however believe corporal punishment should be brought back, the kind of crimes that are committed an punishable by this could be detered as that type of criminal is more likely to think twice.
Like fluffybunny said death is final, theres no goin back, theres no re-trials and for this reason and this reason alone there is at this time no civilised argument FOR the death penalty.
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#8
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 07:04 PM
Also seraphina
Ok if theres been a unanimous verdict returned then they can be punished for a crime, but as fluffy said theres an alarmingly large volume of cases that's verdict has been overturned.
How exactly do you rectify a mistake like that 10 mins after you've put 20 000 volts through someone?
Ok if theres been a unanimous verdict returned then they can be punished for a crime, but as fluffy said theres an alarmingly large volume of cases that's verdict has been overturned.
How exactly do you rectify a mistake like that 10 mins after you've put 20 000 volts through someone?
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#9
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 07:09 PM
Oh.. you guys probably already know my answer to the question.... 
I 100% agree with the death penalty. I would even like to see it enforced a little more.
I don't see any reason to put someone on "death row"... I say when they are convicted and sentenced to death ... they should be executed asap... like within a month's time instead of waiting years on "death row" - costing millions of dollars to keep them in prison until their date of execution. (doesn't make sense to me).
I also believe an eye for an eye.... if someone steals.. they should lose a finger... it happens again... lose another... again.. the whole hand....etc....
I know I sound harsh... but oh well!!
As far as innocent poeple that have been wrongly executed... I don't think that number is too high.
(okay... let the flogging begin)
I 100% agree with the death penalty. I would even like to see it enforced a little more.
I don't see any reason to put someone on "death row"... I say when they are convicted and sentenced to death ... they should be executed asap... like within a month's time instead of waiting years on "death row" - costing millions of dollars to keep them in prison until their date of execution. (doesn't make sense to me).
I also believe an eye for an eye.... if someone steals.. they should lose a finger... it happens again... lose another... again.. the whole hand....etc....
I know I sound harsh... but oh well!!
As far as innocent poeple that have been wrongly executed... I don't think that number is too high.
(okay... let the flogging begin)
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#10
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 07:14 PM
| QUOTE |
| As far as innocent poeple that have been wrongly executed... I don't think that number is too high. |
I can believe you just said that Nxt2hvn.
The key words still being "innocent" & "executed".
Im totally shocked that anyone could just explain away an innocent person being EXECUTED!!! so flipantly.
Surely 1 mistake is FAR too many. These people are human beings not animals. They have families and feelings.
What if you were wrongly accused of an act? then senteced to death knowing you were innocent. I think your opinion would change.
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#11
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 08:48 PM
| QUOTE |
| I 100% agree with the death penalty. I would even like to see it enforced a little more...if someone steals.. they should lose a finger... it happens again... lose another... again.. the whole hand....etc....(okay... let the flogging begin) |
I take it then, Nxt2Hvn, that the phrase 'turn the other cheek' doesn't hold much water for you?
| QUOTE |
| As far as innocent poeple that have been wrongly executed... I don't think that number is too high. |
I find this statement very interesting, if not to say somewhat paradoxical, considering the opinion I have formed of you as a person who rejoices in their Christianity.
Are you suggesting that the number of innocent people put to death can be safely ignored because the majority were guilty? Where's the Christianity in that?
Personally I think the number of innocent people who have been executed is probably quite spectacular - for most of the reasons Fluffy mentions, and to finish your little diatribe with...
| QUOTE |
| I also believe an eye for an eye.... if someone steals.. they should lose a finger... it happens again... lose another... again.. the whole hand....etc.... I know I sound harsh... but oh well!! |
...just astounds me. (Nice little smiley at the end there, by the way. I'm always giving involuntary cheeky winks when the subject of judicial murder comes up, too.)
I'm not really trying to get at you but I find your position on this bewildering. Explain to me, for instance, the connection between the central message of Jesus and cutting off somebody's finger.
I can't compete with you in the religious stakes, obviously, but my impression is that the death penalty is something that Jesus would be firmly against. Or have I got that wrong? Is he all for lopping off people limbs and executing as many innocent people as you feel like just as long as the number of guilty people is significantly higher?
#12
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 09:16 PM
This is why there should be an I.Q test for people who vote for stuff.
"still believe that, at the end of the day, there are certain things that human beings don't do...human beings do not needlessly kill a person in cold blood...and quite frankly, when you do that, you no longer have the right to be considered a human being."
It's opinions like this that annoy me. This is why Maddox is right, Opinions can be wrong.
If the person doesn't know it's wrong to kill then it's other peoples fault. I read some stuff from interviews with children who killed a person and they all said that their parents told them it was ok to kill. Such as their parents telling them that it's Ok for the goverment to kill "Evil" people.
"I'm not interesting in punishment for scum, so much as ensuring that they'll never be in a position to victimise someone else. I believe in protecting the innocent far more than spending time and money trying to rehabilitate criminals."
You have a stupid ignorant "Black & White" opinion. It is impossible to just divide people into either good or evil.
"Criminal who have shown that they are capable of crimes such as rape, murder, kiddnapping... are no longer worthy of mercy of any kind. In that cause the nice, Christian, Biblical thing to do ; would be to either stone them or impale them, or burn them to death.
But personally I think that if the person is caught in the act they should just have their existance ended right then and there."
Are you being sarcastic? I hope you are.
Eye for an Eye justice doesn't work because it isn't justice. It's revenge and revenge isn't justice, Revenge is what five year olds and animals do because they don't know any different.
Rehabilitation is a the way forward, Killing people because they kill is the way backwards.
"still believe that, at the end of the day, there are certain things that human beings don't do...human beings do not needlessly kill a person in cold blood...and quite frankly, when you do that, you no longer have the right to be considered a human being."
It's opinions like this that annoy me. This is why Maddox is right, Opinions can be wrong.
If the person doesn't know it's wrong to kill then it's other peoples fault. I read some stuff from interviews with children who killed a person and they all said that their parents told them it was ok to kill. Such as their parents telling them that it's Ok for the goverment to kill "Evil" people.
"I'm not interesting in punishment for scum, so much as ensuring that they'll never be in a position to victimise someone else. I believe in protecting the innocent far more than spending time and money trying to rehabilitate criminals."
You have a stupid ignorant "Black & White" opinion. It is impossible to just divide people into either good or evil.
"Criminal who have shown that they are capable of crimes such as rape, murder, kiddnapping... are no longer worthy of mercy of any kind. In that cause the nice, Christian, Biblical thing to do ; would be to either stone them or impale them, or burn them to death.
But personally I think that if the person is caught in the act they should just have their existance ended right then and there."
Are you being sarcastic? I hope you are.
Eye for an Eye justice doesn't work because it isn't justice. It's revenge and revenge isn't justice, Revenge is what five year olds and animals do because they don't know any different.
Rehabilitation is a the way forward, Killing people because they kill is the way backwards.
#13
Fluffybunny
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 09:57 PM
| QUOTE (Nxt2Hvn @ Jan 18 2004, 10:09 AM) |
| I 100% agree with the death penalty. I would even like to see it enforced a little more. |
I seriousely hope that you are kidding. Please tell me that you are doing this in order to start a flame war...
I can't imagine that someone as flippin religous about everything as you are could possibly say:
| QUOTE |
| As far as innocent poeple that have been wrongly executed... I don't think that number is too high. |
because if you are serious in the post you just made then you are coming across just like the militant muslims that are stoning and putting people to death in the middle east...but I am sure that isn't you...not the forgiving christian that you claim to be. judge not; lest ye be judged??? Ring a bell???
| QUOTE |
| (doesn't make sense to me). |
If your quote was not in jest, I would assume that not much does...
| QUOTE |
| I don't see any reason to put someone on "death row"... I say when they are convicted and sentenced to death ... they should be executed asap... like within a month's time instead of waiting years on "death row" - costing millions of dollars to keep them in prison until their date of execution. |
Yes, lets put all of them to death instantly. Right in the court room maybe after the sentance is passed, it would be great. Pay per view executions! When it comes to trivial things like the appeals process that is guaranteed under the law, we can just wait until after the person is dead. I am sure that the nearly 30 percent of convictions(6.59 million inmates in the US alone; 3700+ on death row) that are overturned by the appeals process doesn't mean much in your book...
I am sure we could just post any overturned convictions on the persons gravestones to show that they weren't guilty after all...It would be a comfort to their family to know that they were innocent...
| QUOTE |
| I also believe an eye for an eye.... if someone steals.. they should lose a finger... it happens again... lose another... again.. the whole hand....etc.... |
Does that mean that you should have your brai... oh nevermind to easy of a target on that one...
You scare me nxt2hvn, you really do... to think that you get to vote...wow.
Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.
People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.
People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.
#14
Kismit
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Posted 18 January 2004 - 10:14 PM
Perhaps if we put as much energy into our children as we do into debating topics like the death penalty , we would save an awful lot more money on prisons .....
#15
Arashi Ravenblade
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You dont really think the rules i make apply to me do you?
Posted 18 January 2004 - 10:49 PM
I agree 100% with it, i believe if you needlessly murdur someone you need to die, the same goe for other crimes...i believe in an eye for an eye punishment system.
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