264 replies to this topic

[Rockerchick2008]

Obviously some people here have never suffered from depression...no point in arguing over this because until there is enough evidence for a case, which there obviously isn't or it would have gone to court ages ago, its suicide...lots of suicides can be pondered as murders...but they aren't. when will people just let it be, nothing can bring him back whether it was murder or not, it doesn't change the fact that he's DEAD...oops better be careful of what I say soon people will start saying that its all a scam and that hes actually alive and living in Canada....

[*Quinn*]

Rockerchick2008 on Jan 11 2008, 02:02 AM, said:

Obviously some people here have never suffered from depression...no point in arguing over this because until there is enough evidence for a case, which there obviously isn't or it would have gone to court ages ago, its suicide...lots of suicides can be pondered as murders...but they aren't. when will people just let it be, nothing can bring him back whether it was murder or not, it doesn't change the fact that he's DEAD...oops better be careful of what I say soon people will start saying that its all a scam and that hes actually alive and living in Canada....

Actually, lots of murders are set-up to look like suicide.

As for Kurt Cobain, I never believed he was murdered. I thought it was ridiculous for people to seriously suggest such a thing. I use to think Tom Grant was simply trying to make a buck off of his connection to the case.

Then about 2 months or so ago I actually really began to read about the reasons for why some think he was murdered. While I still believe it was suicide, I can understand why others leave open the possibility he was murdered. In any event, it seems hard to argue against the fact that the case wasn't handled properly.

One simple thing to question is how did he do it with so much heroin in his system. Seems the experts on such things say the amount of herion in his system would've knocked him out before he had the chance to shoot himself. I'm no expert though, so I don't know if that is really true or not.

Edited by Left Field, 11 January 2008 - 10:29 AM.

[Enigma wrapped in a puzzle]

Veni Vidi Vici on Jan 11 2008, 05:33 AM, said:

YES HE WAS MURDERED

IT IS NOT MY SUPPOSITION

HE WAS KILLED BY HIS WIFE

HIS WIFE WAS A BRAINWASHED WHORE

HIS WIFE IS STILL LIVING BRAINWASHED

MANY ACTORS AND SINGERS GET KILLED BY BRAINWASHED PEOPLE

I agree.... but pipe down a little your making yourself look crazy

[Belial]

Yeah she did it.

[raoulduke666]

Didn't at one point Courtney try to hire hit man to kill Kurt?  And then later the hit man confess?

[Belial]

Yeah there was a documentary a few months later, and they spoke in depth to a cook and the 'hitman' who later grassed on her and her requests, lol.

[Princess Serenity]

My brother said something about this. And he brought up his wife. Now that I think about it. It might have been his wife. Of course I was told that he killed himself. =/

[*Quinn*]

Well, if someone killed him, it most likely wasn't Courtney Love herself. It seems the male nanny (Michael "Cali" DeWitt) would have been the person involved.

I'm just as interested in figuring out what happened in Rome as I am in what happened during Cobain's final moments.

The overdose in Rome was first described as an accident. After Cobain's death it was then said to be a suicide attempt. As far as I know Kurt's only comments about it is that he wasn't able to remember what happened. It was as if all he knew he dozed off and woke up in the hospital. That said, most people that go through a failed suicide attempt aren't going to want to admit it was a suicide attempt in an instance where they could claim it was an overdose.

It's also interesting to note that a guy by the name of Eldon "El Duce" Hoke claimed Courtney Love once offered him $50,000 to kill Kurt Cobain. He is on tape making this claim and also passed a lie detector test backing up his story.

Another thing I found odd was the cropped photo of Kurt Cobain that Courtney Love apparently sent out after his death showing him with a toy shotgun aimed into his mouth. The original photo has Kurt on the hood of a car with Krist and Dave alongside him. Courtney Love cropped it so that Krist and Dave were cut out of the picture and all you saw was Kurt with a gun aimed in his mouth. She then sent it out to the tabloids if I remember what I read correctly. Whether she played a role in his death or not, sending out a pic like that after his death is rather odd behaviour in my opinion.

If you read about the last month or so of his life, it also becomes quite clear that Cobain wanted a divorce.

[Rockerchick2008]

Lie detector tests are actually quiet easy to pass if your a good liar, also who's to say hes not just making all that stuff up for a quick buck, people will say alot of bs for $...as for the heroine in his system, the more you use the more your body becomes accustomed to it, which means in most cases you need more then the regular start out junkie to get the high...

[thunkerdrone]

From:

http://www.altx.com/interzones2/london/rock.n.roll.html


...A more believable theory about Cobain's death suggests he was the victim of a CIA mind control experiment. An individual claiming to represent 'a private network of researchers' contacted me about this and arranged a meeting in the Temple Church on Fleet Street. Once I'd settled in a pew, a very nervous young man seated himself beside me. According to my contact, the CIA is deeply concerned about the subversive influence of popular music on young people, that's why 'they murdered Brian Jones, John Lennon and Jim Morrison'.

What's been worrying the spooks lately is the sway black radicalism has gained over the minds of white teenagers, to counter this 'they've been pushing Nation of Islam style separatism among rappers'. Likewise, the white Grunge movement spearheaded by Nirvana was backed by the CIA because 'they wanted to divide youngsters on racial lines, if black and white kids linked up, they'd pose a serious threat to the system. The whole point of Grunge is to instill in teenagers a sense of hopelessness, to fill them with self-hate and prevent them from changing the world.'

Apparently, the CIA got hold of Cobain when he was still unknown, then using drugs, hypnosis and medical torture, they broke his will and rebuilt his personality. 'Most of the time he'd act relatively normal,' I was told, 'but all it took was a few key words spoken over the phone and Cobain would carry out the deeds he'd been programmed to enact.' My contact was convinced that the singer had been brainwashed into committing suicide at the peak of his success because the CIA figured this would reduce his potentially rebellious fans to complete despair.

However, the conspiracy theorist admitted several of his fellow researchers thought Cobain had taken his own life as the only means of breaking free from the influence of his controllers. If this is the case, then the rock star is a hero rather than simply a victim, and his death provides grounds for a fresh outbreak of teenager rebellion.

this link provides some insight into the situation with Cobain:


The true story behind the lyrics to Smells Like Teen Spirit:

http://www.topix.com/forum/who/nirvana/TAP8NSTHB7L2O1R6T


Courtney Love making satanic hand sign

Edited by thunkerdrone, 12 January 2008 - 03:41 AM.

[Rockerchick2008]

thunkerdrone on Jan 11 2008, 04:53 PM, said:

From:

http://www.altx.com/interzones2/london/rock.n.roll.html


...A more believable theory about Cobain's death suggests he was the victim of a CIA mind control experiment. An individual claiming to represent 'a private network of researchers' contacted me about this and arranged a meeting in the Temple Church on Fleet Street. Once I'd settled in a pew, a very nervous young man seated himself beside me. According to my contact, the CIA is deeply concerned about the subversive influence of popular music on young people, that's why 'they murdered Brian Jones, John Lennon and Jim Morrison'.

What's been worrying the spooks lately is the sway black radicalism has gained over the minds of white teenagers, to counter this 'they've been pushing Nation of Islam style separatism among rappers'. Likewise, the white Grunge movement spearheaded by Nirvana was backed by the CIA because 'they wanted to divide youngsters on racial lines, if black and white kids linked up, they'd pose a serious threat to the system. The whole point of Grunge is to instill in teenagers a sense of hopelessness, to fill them with self-hate and prevent them from changing the world.'

Apparently, the CIA got hold of Cobain when he was still unknown, then using drugs, hypnosis and medical torture, they broke his will and rebuilt his personality. 'Most of the time he'd act relatively normal,' I was told, 'but all it took was a few key words spoken over the phone and Cobain would carry out the deeds he'd been programmed to enact.' My contact was convinced that the singer had been brainwashed into committing suicide at the peak of his success because the CIA figured this would reduce his potentially rebellious fans to complete despair.

However, the conspiracy theorist admitted several of his fellow researchers thought Cobain had taken his own life as the only means of breaking free from the influence of his controllers. If this is the case, then the rock star is a hero rather than simply a victim, and his death provides grounds for a fresh outbreak of teenager rebellion.

this link provides some insight into the situation with Cobain:


The true story behind the lyrics to Smells Like Teen Spirit:

http://www.topix.com/forum/who/nirva...8NSTHB7L2O1R6T


Courtney Love making satanic hand sign

um thats known as the devil horns its used to keep away evil spirits, It was used in germany and hungary its not satanic..and please I doubt the CIA would encourage a whole generation of kids to listen to depressed music that was rebellious against society.

[*Quinn*]

thunkerdrone on Jan 11 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

The true story behind the lyrics to Smells Like Teen Spirit:

http://www.topix.com/forum/who/nirva...8NSTHB7L2O1R6T

C'mon tdrone, that link to the "true story" about the lyrics to SMLT is a joke. Guy claims he wrote "Come As You Are" too if I recall correctly. Not only does he claim to have written the lyrics, but then he says he wrote them in such a way that it also played out the song for Cobain, as if the guy didn't simply write the lyrics, but Cobain also came up with the music based on how he read this guys lyrics off the paper.

Oh, and of course he didn't notice until more than a decade after the song came out (and Cobain was dead) that the most popular song of the 90's was using a set of lyrics he wrote. Give me a break.

And I'm all for a good conspiracy, but the CIA didn't kill Kurt Cobain.   ....or control his mind for that matter.

Edited by Left Field, 12 January 2008 - 12:14 AM.

[*Quinn*]

Rockerchick2008 on Jan 11 2008, 05:38 PM, said:

Lie detector tests are actually quiet easy to pass if your a good liar

I don't know how "easy" they are to pass, but I agree that they aren't always the most reliable. Suppossedly the guy who administered the lie detector test is among the best in his field.

Rockerchick2008 on Jan 11 2008, 05:38 PM, said:

also who's to say hes not just making all that stuff up for a quick buck, people will say alot of bs for $...

He didn't make any money off the claim. He was actuually a fairly well known musician from the Seattle area. Shortly after the claim he died in a mysterious accident in which a train ran him over. He was last seen with a man whom no one knows and apparently was a first time acquaintence of El Duce.

Rockerchick2008 on Jan 11 2008, 05:38 PM, said:

as for the heroine in his system, the more you use the more your body becomes accustomed to it, which means in most cases you need more then the regular start out junkie to get the high...

I'm aware of that, but there are still some who've said the amount in Cobain's system (junkie or not) was a high enough dose that it shouldn't have mattered what his tolerance level had reached.

BTW, I understand your point of view because it was the same responses I gave up until a few months ago when I decided to read more about the circumstances surrounding Cobain's death. I still think it was suicide, but I now leave open the possibility there was foul play involved. I don't buy into any of this CIA connection however.

[thunkerdrone]

Left Field on Jan 11 2008, 07:12 PM, said:

C'mon tdrone, that link to the "true story" about the lyrics to SMLT is a joke. Guy claims he wrote "Come As You Are" too if I recall correctly. Not only does he claim to have written the lyrics, but then he says he wrote them in such a way that it also played out the song for Cobain, as if the guy didn't simply write the lyrics, but Cobain also came up with the music based on how he read this guys lyrics off the paper.

Oh, and of course he didn't notice until more than a decade after the song came out (and Cobain was dead) that the most popular song of the 90's was using a set of lyrics he wrote. Give me a break.

And I'm all for a good conspiracy, but the CIA didn't kill Kurt Cobain.   ....or control his mind for that matter.

you and I will have to disagree on that one. Have you read the whole thread?  It does a good job of explaining a lot of unanswered questions,
such as how the lyrics to SLTS could have been written in five minutes and hailed as genius 15 years later, or why Cobain would hate the song
that made his dreams come true and start refusing to play it,  or why he constantly did mocking versions of both those songs, or why he
would record a song with lyrics that directly contradicted his own 'progressive' views, etc.

A fascinating read, if you read the whole thread.

[thunkerdrone]

Left Field on Jan 11 2008, 04:26 PM, said:

Well, if someone killed him, it most likely wasn't Courtney Love herself. It seems the male nanny (Michael "Cali" DeWitt) would have been the person involved.

I'm just as interested in figuring out what happened in Rome as I am in what happened during Cobain's final moments.
The overdose in Rome was first described as an accident. After Cobain's death it was then said to be a suicide attempt. As far as I know Kurt's only comments about it is that he wasn't able to remember what happened. It was as if all he knew he dozed off and woke up in the hospital. That said, most people that go through a failed suicide attempt aren't going to want to admit it was a suicide attempt in an instance where they could claim it was an overdose.It's also interesting to note that a guy by the name of Eldon "El Duce" Hoke claimed Courtney Love once offered him $50,000 to kill Kurt Cobain. He is on tape making this claim and also passed a lie detector test backing up his story.

I also believe Rome had some connection to it.  El Duce is not so much Italian sounding as Spanish, though.
I think the film 'My Own Private Idaho' may hold some clues to this, or for someone adept at studying symbolism,
clues and synchronicities in films, maybe some other Gus Van Sant films such as 'Last Days' or 'Good Will Hunting'
contain clues.

Edited by thunkerdrone, 12 January 2008 - 12:40 AM.