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Reason US went to War: to stop Evil Biology & Chem


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#16    wunarmdscissor

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Posted 29 January 2004 - 06:27 PM

BTW i just wanna add i have a lot of respect for the American people.

It is your leaders I have a problem with and i also believe that bush's election was a sham, if you look at the many stories of people being prevented from voting then you'll realise what i am saying isnt that hard to believe.

Joc the way you post just re-afirms the world's views on the american people as a bunch of "gung-ho" war mongerers. This i believe isnt the case but you are constantly chipping away at my confidence in that.

Please don't fall head over heels for the propoganda that you are being fed.

Dont get me wrong one of my closest friends is of iraqi descent and he had family over there. He was overjoyed at his downfall and so was I, we just didnt go about it the right way.

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#17    joc

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Posted 29 January 2004 - 08:47 PM

QUOTE
How were we defending ourselves joc? really, I'd love to know?
How was iraq an imminent threat to our safety?


We are defending ourselves Fluff, by killing those who want to kill us before they get a chance to.  Bush never said Iraq was an imminent threat.  He said they were a grave and gathering danger.    And do you doubt that?  

QUOTE
joc, I don't think you understand that we forced a war on another country for reasons that ended up being untrue (at the best), or downright lies (at the worst).


Fluff, I donít think you understand that we didnít force war upon Iraq.  Sadaam Hussein forced war.  Are we about to go to war with Libya?  No.  Why?  Because
Momar Quadafe saw what happened when you play cat and mouse games with someone who is dead serious about consequences.  How easily the world forgets the games and taunts of Sadaam and how easily the world buys the propaganda from the left.

QUOTE
It is obvious by the tone of your posts that the rest of the world doesn't seem to mean much to you, but this is quickly becomming a world economy.


Saying that the rest of the world doesnít mean anything to me, and saying that the worlds opinion when it comes to our national defense is irrelevant are not the same thing.  I do care about the rest of the world.   I want a peaceful globe Fluff, not one that is constantly being ripped and torn apart by terrorists.
QUOTE

We will crumble like the last days of Rome if we do not learn how to play well with others.
blink.gif

We will certainly  crumble if we donít destroy those who have declared war on us.

QUOTE
Bush made a horrible mistake, and every US citizen will pay for it in one way or another.


Wrong!  Sadaam made a horrible mistake and he and his cohorts have paid, are paying and will continue to pay for it.  We in the USA and the rest of the world will only benefit from this.

QUOTE
BTW i just wanna add i have a lot of respect for the American people.
It is your leaders I have a problem with and i also believe that bush's election was a sham, if you look at the many stories of people being prevented from voting then you'll realise what i am saying isnt that hard to believe.


Bushís election wasnít a sham.  The despicable road that was traveled down to the supreme court was perpetrated by Al Gore ( a leftist communist in my opinion).  The leaders you should have had a problem with were the ones who let this mess evolve into what it became.  Firstly, the entire Clinton administration.   Secondly France and Germany and Russia who sought economic means over world security.

QUOTE
Joc the way you post just re-afirms the world's views on the american people as a bunch of "gung-ho" war mongerers. This i believe isnt the case but you are constantly chipping away at my confidence in that.


If you think defending ourselves is war-mongering so be it.  Prior to 9/11 who were we attacking exactly?  Donít you people understand the depth of what 9/11 means?!  Don't you see what is going on around the globe?  In Israel? In Indonesia?  Can't you understand that it really is World War 3. That we all have a vested interest in defeating these terrorists?

QUOTE
Please don't fall head over heels for the propoganda that you are being fed.


Someone here is certainly eating up the propaganda of the Leftist Press Machine.


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#18    Fluffybunny

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Posted 29 January 2004 - 09:18 PM

QUOTE (joc @ Jan 29 2004, 12:47 PM)
Someone here is certainly eating up the propaganda of the Leftist Press Machine.

Sounds like a dittohead to me... rolleyes.gif

btw, I am not a leftist. I am actually a libertarian...

QUOTE
We are defending ourselves Fluff, by killing those who want to kill us before they get a chance to.  Bush never said Iraq was an imminent threat.  He said they were a grave and gathering danger.    And do you doubt that?   


That arguement sounds like are reason to attack anyone that offends us. Aside from the fact that IRAQ didn't have to military power to attack The US, the semantics of imminent vs. grave and gathering danger doesn't really matter, and if anything goes to show that there was time to deal with Iraq in other methods that didn't require our killing thousands of innocent people.

Do I believe that they were a danger? not enough to warrant killing our soldiers over, no...

QUOTE
Fluff, I donít think you understand that we didnít force war upon Iraq.  Sadaam Hussein forced war.


Wow, you swallowed that one hook, line, and sinker. I guess it is easy to see the "right wing" propaganda. Bush was the one that set the date for the start of the war. The Weapons inspector couldn't even finish their inspections and were pulled out of the country because Bush was so sure that Saddam had WMD.

Which we haven't found.

QUOTE
We will certainly  crumble if we donít destroy those who have declared war on us.


I didn't know Iraq declared war before we did. Al-queda did, but they had nothing to do with Iraq.

I support the search in Afghanastan for Al-Queda. They admitted to what they did, it can be proven.

The bottom line that you keep missing is that our country has decided to go to war and kill people based entirely on information(WMD/terrorist links) that was a lie.

Do you understand the implications that has on our country? Is that lost on you?

QUOTE
Don't you see what is going on around the globe?  In Israel? In Indonesia?  Can't you understand that it really is World War 3. That we all have a vested interest in defeating these terrorists?


The terrorists in Iraq? that weren't actually linked in anyway?

I agree we will all benefit from getting rid of these terrorist. Afghanastan is a good example of that. Intelligence that finds the civilian terrorists in our country and others before they can do anything is a great example of that.

As far as Isreal, fighting and terrorism have been going on there long before Israel was even a country. Why is it suddenly an emergency?

Iraq doesn't equal the terrorist that attacked us on 9/11. It seems to me that you are lumping the two together, when that isn't the case at all. There was no link.

No one here likes terrorist. I think I can safely say that. Everyone hates what happened 9/11, but that does not justify what we are doing in Iraq right now.

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#19    joc

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Posted 29 January 2004 - 09:58 PM

QUOTE
Sounds like a dittohead to me... rolleyes.gif


I am actually.  Thanks for noticing!



There is a lot of information regarding Iraq/Al Queda.



http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=29949

QUOTE
The bottom line that you keep missing is that our country has decided to go to war and kill people based entirely on information(WMD/terrorist links) that was a lie.


Huh?  Again, Sadaam decided he would rather go to war than prove he
didn't have any WMD.  If he didn't have any he should have just said, Go any
where you want.  He didn't.  He acted like he had something to hide because he
did.  What was it?  Time will tell.  

QUOTE
As far as Isreal, fighting and terrorism have been going on there long before Israel was even a country. Why is it suddenly an emergency?


It has always been an emergency.  Have you forgotten that Sadaam was
paying Palestinian parents $25,000 for each kid that became a suicide bomber?

Or do you not buy that either?

Look, this is what the reality of our world is:  We are not going to stop until we
have destroyed terrorism...period.  This is not about Al Queda, this is not about
Iraq, this is about destroying those who want to destroy us before they can.
Bush made it real clear.  You are with us or you are against us.  If you are a terrorist your days are numbered.  If you help terrorists your days are numbered.

This is what I say about any one who would seek to destroy America or any of
our Allies:

Kill em all and let God sort em out!

By the way:  a prediction

Bush wins in landslide in November....................

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#20    bathory

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 01:14 AM

all one has to do is look to Libya to realise that things are getting better


#21    Xenojjin

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 01:17 AM

  dontgetit.gif you may need some help their . Please refrain from using god in a phrase justifiing mass genocide .... its part of the reason so many dont believe in him ....

I see two countries both acting equally retarded . And "pre empetive strike" is a stupid oximoron ... Lets put the reasoning to a more logical sense ... If their is a bully at school who plans to beat me up , shoul I sneak into his house and night and beat the *()@&# out of him before he beats the _*(@# out of me ? No , its an attack .


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#22    Xenojjin

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 01:20 AM

On a side note , its technically impossible to destroy terrorism altogether . Unless your talking about the Al queada only .



I guess never ending war is possible ....  

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#23    Fluffybunny

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 01:25 AM

QUOTE
Look, this is what the reality of our world is: We are not going to stop until we
have destroyed terrorism...period. This is not about Al Queda, this is not about
Iraq, this is about destroying those who want to destroy us before they can.
Bush made it real clear. You are with us or you are against us. If you are a terrorist your days are numbered. If you help terrorists your days are numbered.

This is what I say about any one who would seek to destroy America or any of
our Allies:



You have learned the script very well, word for word even! The indoctrination obviously succeeded with you. Rush will be proud should he ever fully pull out of his drug induced haze...

QUOTE
Kill em all and let God sort em out!


And that pretty much sums it up for you doesn't it?

To think I had been wasting my time with independent critical analysis, logical reasoning, and evaluating the available evidence when it would be so much easier to parrot what the government tells me to.

And it comes back to my theory that a critical thinking course should be mandatory in high school, and required before given the privilege of voting.



Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#24    wunarmdscissor

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 10:24 AM

Joc am sorry but you really dont have a clue do you?

When you are talking about  international matters please at least get people's names right. It Colonel Gaddafi.

Why didnt America invade Libya after lockerbie?
I willing to stake money you dont come up with a decent answer to that one. I mean they admitted that they were hiding the bombers. How many american citizens died that night? So why didnt we invade them?

Ill tell you why, Libya doesnt have huge reserves of oil thats why. Earlier i said i was a "decently educated person" and you mocked me. I mean you just dont have a clue what your talking about.

HOW IS AL GORE A COMMUNIST? You are just spouting utter nonsense (and showing your true colours)

Do you have any idea what communism means?

What is so bad about being leftist? (which doesnt make you a communist it makes you a socialist you fool)

What is so bad about believing everyone should be equal?


THIS WAR WAS ABOUT OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do u think 50% of britain's population was against the war. They understood the real reasons behind this wr.

I do agree that us invading Iraq influenced libya to allow inspections and that is a good thing, but that doesnt make what we did right.

Wow we've scared the rest of the planet. We must have done the right thing LOL.

Get a grip joc and stop believing that supreme idiot bush.



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#25    joc

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 02:55 PM

QUOTE
Joc am sorry but you really dont have a clue do you?

When you are talking about international matters please at least get people's names right. It Colonel Gaddafi.


I guess I did get the name wrong, it is actually:  Col. Mummar Al-Quadafe


QUOTE
Why didnt America invade Libya after lockerbie?
I willing to stake money you dont come up with a decent answer to that one. I mean they admitted that they were hiding the bombers. How many american citizens died that night? So why didnt we invade them?


In 1986 we bombed Libya in retaliation for the bombing of a Berlin nightclub frequented by US servicemen.  It was not the first time we had been attacked.  Have you forgotten the marine barracks bombing in 1983 which killed well over 200 marines.  Libya only recently claimed responsibility for the bombing of Pan Am flight 103.
The correct answer is that it was a different US policy in the middle east at the time.  You cannot view what is going on today and try to put it in the frame of the Ď80s.  EverythingÖ.EVERYTHINGÖ.changed on 9/11.  It is an entirely different world now guy.

QUOTE
Ill tell you why, Libya doesnt have huge reserves of oil thats why. Earlier i said i was a "decently educated person" and you mocked me. I mean you just dont have a clue what your talking about.


I wasn't mocking you........sorry if it sounded that way.  

QUOTE
HOW IS AL GORE A COMMUNIST? You are just spouting utter nonsense (and showing your true colours)


Read his book Earth in the Balance?  Nuff said.  You havenít listened to the ideas of this guy have you?   Yeah, he is a communist through and through.
My true colors?  My true colors dude are Red, White, and Blue!!!  Socialism and Communism are not the same thing.  The large difference is that the Communists will kill you for disagreeing with them and the Socialists will not.  Donít rag me about what I do and donít know about communism pal.  Just donít.  Lest you begin sounding like one.

QUOTE
What is so bad about being leftist? (which doesnt make you a communist it makes you a socialist you fool)


Please donít resort to name-calling.  Have I once ever called you or anyone else Stupid? Or Fool?  It really is unbecoming and detracts from the validity of whatever arguments you are proposingÖ.(no matter how undoubtedly incorrect they may be)
QUOTE

What is so bad about believing everyone should be equal?


Where did this come from?


QUOTE
THIS WAR WAS ABOUT OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!


Let us acknowledge the truth together shall we.  The Engine of the World runs on Oil.  Do we need to go to war for oil?  No.  Why would we go to such lengths to invade a country with massive weaponry for their oil?  That is the same Leftist argument used in the Gulf War.   Forgot that they invaded Kuwait, eh?

QUOTE
Why do u think 50% of britain's population was against the war. They understood the real reasons behind this wr.


50% of Britainís against the war?  If that is so it is probably because it was the UNITED STATES that was hit on 9/11 and not London or Edinburgh.

QUOTE
I do agree that us invading Iraq influenced libya to allow inspections and that is a good thing, but that doesnt make what we did right.

Wow we've scared the rest of the planet. We must have done the right thing LOL.


No, we have scared the rest of the terrorists.

QUOTE
Get a grip joc and stop believing that supreme idiot bush.


Why is it that liberals always resort to name calling when they feel they are losing an argument?

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#26    Engulf

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 03:06 PM

I'm not gonna follow up on the current argument, just a lil something to say. I quoted Saddam saying he wasn't in the 'best' of ties with Osama. He never trusted him in the first place. I have a feeling there's just more than meets the eye in this whole mess. ph34r.gif  ph34r.gif Moreover it, I don't really think Bush's got any intentions to hunt down the oil in Iraq, but rather another secret agenda in place dontgetit.gif ......

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#27    bathory

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 03:07 PM

QUOTE
I willing to stake money you dont come up with a decent answer to that one. I mean they admitted that they were hiding the bombers. How many american citizens died that night? So why didnt we invade them?


because it was a different administration? If oil was such a big deal why didn't the US take Iraq during the Gulf War, surely they could have justified it?

QUOTE
Ill tell you why, Libya doesnt have huge reserves of oil thats why.


and Clinton bombed Kosovo because....

QUOTE
Why do u think 50% of britain's population was against the war. They understood the real reasons behind this wr.


why do you think 50% of britain's population was for the war? what evidence do you have to suggest that it was done for oil? you obviously have some because you seem so sure.

QUOTE
I do agree that us invading Iraq influenced libya to allow inspections and that is a good thing, but that doesnt make what we did right.


because attempting to liberate a country is always a bad bad thing.

QUOTE
Wow we've scared the rest of the planet. We must have done the right thing LOL.


America has scared several countries into giving up and/or exposing their nuclear weapons programs, oh wait, thats a bad thing.

QUOTE
I'm not gonna follow up on the current argument, just a lil something to say. I quoted Saddam saying he wasn't in the 'best' of ties with Osama. He never trusted him in the first place. I have a feeling there's just more than meets the eye in this whole mess.


i agree, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, just because Saddam didn't trust/like Osama doesn't mean he has no problem with using their organization for his dirty work (i'm not saying he did, i'm just addressing and argument which is sometimes used)


#28    wunarmdscissor

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 04:22 PM

Im sorry for calling you a fool joc that was out of order

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#29    joc

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 04:37 PM

Thank-you.

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#30    wunarmdscissor

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Posted 30 January 2004 - 04:43 PM

QUOTE

because it was a different administration? If oil was such a big deal why didn't the US take Iraq during the Gulf War, surely they could have justified it?


No wrong they didnt take iraq then because the resolution that was passed by the UNITED NATIONS was to get saddam out of kuwait. They were not authorised to take out saddam. This was the difference the reason they were able to do it this time is because they said to hell with the united nations and bypassed them.

QUOTE
and Clinton bombed Kosovo because....


He didnt bomb kosovo he bombed serbia because of the GENOCIDE that was being committed by milosovic . This I have no argument with, there were no ulterior motives just plain good human compassion, which i fear and believe was not the reason bush went into iraq. Im not so sure about tony blair though i actually do believe he wanted to do the right thing.

QUOTE
No, we have scared the rest of the terrorists.


Wrong again are there not still terrorist attacks on our troops and countrymen around the world daily?

These people are not scared of death just look at 9/11 theyre maniacs whos hatred has only been intensified by what they see a western imperialism, Im not saying i agree with that all im saying is thats all we've done.

QUOTE

Socialism and Communism are not the same thing. The large difference is that the Communists will kill you for disagreeing with them and the Socialists will not.


I never said they were the same thing ????????


QUOTE
why do you think 50% of britain's population was for the war? what evidence do you have to suggest that it was done for oil? you obviously have some because you seem so sure.


I havent actually stated what side im on, i do think liberating Iraq was a good thing. I object however to be lied to by my government. When i read that he could attack us within 40 mins i thought yeah go an get him, but this doesnt seem to be accurate, and dont even get started on the WMD's that theyve cant fidt.


QUOTE
what evidence do you have to suggest that it was done for oil? you obviously have some because you seem so sure.


The man was evil but now if we went into iraq are we gonna go everywhere around the world . No

The reason is these countries in africa and places like that have nothing we need like OIL!!

QUOTE
because attempting to liberate a country is always a bad bad thing.


When have i ever said it was a bad thing. Ill say it for the umpteenth time i believe liberating Iraq was great. I just think the motives and evidence for doing it are dubious to say the least.


BTW there were a lot of innocent Iraqis killed during their "liberation"

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