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Cloning Can Not Succeed


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#391    psyche101

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:57 AM

View PostOmnaka, on 24 February 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

The spirits inside animals are of Heavenly Father and Mother (God) They love god unconditionally as God loves them unconditionally. The spirit in man is also of god and God loves them unconditionally, but man has freewill, and does not always love unconditionally. The proof is there are no human clones. Been 4 years since I started this thread, still no Human clones.


I do not think mans disposition is proof that clones cannot exist, but is is hardly surprising that no human has been cloned to date as that is illegal. If a clone ever was made, as those fools over at Rael's religion claim, it could not go public for fear of redemption. Not to mention that the process of stripping the nucleus from an egg cell and replacing it with the nucleus of a donor cell is a traumatic one, and often results in failure. Better techniques and further knowledge is required to overcome these obstacles. What the future holds is anybodies guess. The Roslin institute carried out intensive health screening and discounted any connection between Dolly's short telomeres and her demise. It's all about that first catalyst.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#392    Sensible Logic

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:27 PM

View PostOmnaka, on 24 February 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

The spirits inside animals are of Heavenly Father and Mother (God) They love god unconditionally as God loves them unconditionally. The spirit in man is also of god and God loves them unconditionally, but man has freewill, and does not always love unconditionally. The proof is there are no human clones. Been 4 years since I started this thread, still no Human clones.

Since the spirit in animals is of God and they successfully cloned a sheep and the cloned sheep had it's own spirit then they must have cloned the spirit and if it can be done with a sheep it can be done with a human since the spirits of both supposedly come from God.  You have successfully negated your own view that humans can't be cloned because their spirit comes from God.

Since human cloning is still illegal, you won't see any human clones for the foreseeable future.  If they are able to make the process easier with fewer problems for the clone in the future you might see something.  Just because you have yet to see it doesn't mean it won't happen.

The sheer odds of a civilization advancing, developing space travel, deciding to search our little corner of the galaxy, arriving at just the right time and actually helping us is so huge, you would have a greater chance of winning several lotteries in a single year. - SensibleLogic

#393    White Crane Feather

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 09:58 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 25 February 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Maybe you should to be sharing this with a psychiatrist? They could help you.
There are those of us that speak directly to the spirit.... And we are certifiably sane. I know of two on um who have a clean bill of health from doctors yet we have very personal even conversational relationships with divine beings.

When it comes to animals we are not above them. We have spiritual contracts with them. Human beings are just a bit more complex spiritually than animals. But the animal spirit is much older and developed than our egos. An animal is part of a larger aware spirit, so are we. It's just individually we have an intermittent level of awareness where are ego resides. Animal spirits are simply small parts of a collective spirits in ever increasing concentric rings ending with the great spirit ( the father) were we are one. They are our brothers and sisters we just have a diffrent structure of existence.

( at least thats how it was explained to me by a little boy ) :)

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#394    Omnaka

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:59 AM

View PostOrcseeker, on 26 February 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

I wasn't saying the word to "serve" was outdated but moreso the mindset. God has never told me anything because the only reason I have even heard about him is from people like you.

This may be off topic but what's the great desperation you have for eternal life? You are trying to use scare tactics to make me believe? If I did so due to fear I would not be a true believer anyway. I can't do that, sorry, it's in my nature. If I am subject to eternal damnation in hell because I can't believe in something for reasons stated above then that's not right.
There is no desperation about eternal life, reincarnation, or The eternal spirit which created your's. I'm not trying to scare anyone w/ what I share. just sharing. any hell would come from your own consciousness, not something God visits on anyone. nore could God take your conscious thought of hell away (Freewill) belief does not matter to anyone but self. I don't belong to any denomination, but I love heavenly Father and mother. this is not a belief its loving the parents of my eternal spirit. It's all as it should be, no harm no foul. I was just sharing.
Love Omnaka


#395    Omnaka

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:00 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 27 February 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

There are those of us that speak directly to the spirit.... And we are certifiably sane. I know of two on um who have a clean bill of health from doctors yet we have very personal even conversational relationships with divine beings.

When it comes to animals we are not above them. We have spiritual contracts with them. Human beings are just a bit more complex spiritually than animals. But the animal spirit is much older and developed than our egos. An animal is part of a larger aware spirit, so are we. It's just individually we have an intermittent level of awareness where are ego resides. Animal spirits are simply small parts of a collective spirits in ever increasing concentric rings ending with the great spirit ( the father) were we are one. They are our brothers and sisters we just have a diffrent structure of existence.

( at least thats how it was explained to me by a little boy ) :)
:tu:
Love Omnaka


#396    Omnaka

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:05 AM

View PostSensible Logic, on 27 February 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Since the spirit in animals is of God and they successfully cloned a sheep and the cloned sheep had it's own spirit then they must have cloned the spirit and if it can be done with a sheep it can be done with a human since the spirits of both supposedly come from God.  You have successfully negated your own view that humans can't be cloned because their spirit comes from God.

Since human cloning is still illegal, you won't see any human clones for the foreseeable future.  If they are able to make the process easier with fewer problems for the clone in the future you might see something.  Just because you have yet to see it doesn't mean it won't happen.
OK, It has not Happened Yet, And God told me it won't happen. Is that better. The burden of proof lay on those who think they can do it, but have not succeeded, be it laws, science, or God. It has not happened.
Hope I worded it better that time lol.
Love Omnaka

Edited by Omnaka, 28 February 2012 - 06:07 AM.


#397    Orcseeker

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:54 AM

View PostOmnaka, on 28 February 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

There is no desperation about eternal life, reincarnation, or The eternal spirit which created your's. I'm not trying to scare anyone w/ what I share. just sharing. any hell would come from your own consciousness, not something God visits on anyone. nore could God take your conscious thought of hell away (Freewill) belief does not matter to anyone but self. I don't belong to any denomination, but I love heavenly Father and mother. this is not a belief its loving the parents of my eternal spirit. It's all as it should be, no harm no foul. I was just sharing.
Love Omnaka
Ok, could you also address my other replies as well please? I hate to ask thrice.


#398    Rlyeh

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:45 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 27 February 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

There are those of us that speak directly to the spirit.... And we are certifiably sane. I know of two on um who have a clean bill of health from doctors yet we have very personal even conversational relationships with divine beings.
GPs or those who specialise in mental health? Have they brought it up to the doctor about hearing voices?
Not all illnesses have apparent symptoms doctors can pick up, hiding such an illness doesn't mean having a clean bill of health.

Quote

When it comes to animals we are not above them. We have spiritual contracts with them. Human beings are just a bit more complex spiritually than animals. But the animal spirit is much older and developed than our egos. An animal is part of a larger aware spirit, so are we. It's just individually we have an intermittent level of awareness where are ego resides. Animal spirits are simply small parts of a collective spirits in ever increasing concentric rings ending with the great spirit ( the father) were we are one. They are our brothers and sisters we just have a diffrent structure of existence.
These claims are rather lacking when dealing with issues brought up in this thread.

"Cloning is impossible because God told me so" is rather empty.


#399    Meiliken

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:35 AM

Humans are animals.  Anyone that studies genetics and evolutionary biology would know this.  Within our DNA is the dna of other ancient species.  This is why we have a "tail" bone, why people get born with webbed digits, or pointed ears, or internal organs that are not used for anything.  Cancer and other diseases are also latent in our genes waiting for a catalyst to make it active.  Similar to having dominant and recessive physical features, they come and go.  Genetic engineering is working to remove these dangerous pieces of our rdna with the hopes of eradicating those detriments to our species.  We're also not the only cognitively sentient species with emotion and reasoning on earth.  We do have higher reasoning than other animals, but we are still animals nonetheless.  

With all that in mind, I think mankind is a plague.  We eat and destroy everything in our path.  We propegate without planning for the future.  Mankind is already overpopulating the planet.  Cloning may very well become possible, but is it wise?  Not in the slightest.  People are already living far longer than history has been ready for.  Fewer people die, more people stay alive.  The population is building so fast that mankind will run out of food if we don't slow down.  Stephen Hawking himself said mankind won't survive within the next 200 years due to 1 of 2 things happening.  We'll either overpopulate to the point that we starve ourselves to death, or we'll blow ourselves up.  So it is either, humans will literally fornicate the human race into extinction, or we'll immolate ourselves with fire.  Our only hope is to concentrate on finding more planets to live on, or slow ourselves down drastically.

What does all this mean for my contribution to this thread?  I think cloning is a stupid idea that should go the way of the dodo.  We're concentrating too much on the wrong fields of study.

Edited by Meiliken, 28 February 2012 - 10:39 AM.

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#400    Meiliken

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:07 PM

As a continuation of what I posted before this one, I felt I should bring something else in to show how animalistic we really are.  

Take a gander at this.

http://wiki.answers....pport_evolution

The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself
Sir Richard Francis Burton

There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance
Hippocrates

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence.
David Hume

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
Aldous Huxley

#401    Sensible Logic

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:13 PM

View PostOmnaka, on 28 February 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

OK, It has not Happened Yet, And God told me it won't happen. Is that better. The burden of proof lay on those who think they can do it, but have not succeeded, be it laws, science, or God. It has not happened.
Hope I worded it better that time lol.
Love Omnaka

Understood.  God told you it wouldn't happen.  So if it does happen in your lifetime how will that affect your view or belief in God?

The sheer odds of a civilization advancing, developing space travel, deciding to search our little corner of the galaxy, arriving at just the right time and actually helping us is so huge, you would have a greater chance of winning several lotteries in a single year. - SensibleLogic

#402    Sensible Logic

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:16 PM

View PostMeiliken, on 28 February 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

What does all this mean for my contribution to this thread?  I think cloning is a stupid idea that should go the way of the dodo.  We're concentrating too much on the wrong fields of study.

Would you still think it a stupid idea if in the future you found out that you had something wrong with your heart that would kill you in a year but they could clone your heart from a single cell minus the problem and you could live out the rest of your life normally?

The sheer odds of a civilization advancing, developing space travel, deciding to search our little corner of the galaxy, arriving at just the right time and actually helping us is so huge, you would have a greater chance of winning several lotteries in a single year. - SensibleLogic

#403    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 04:30 PM

Quote

Humans are animals. Anyone that studies genetics and evolutionary biology would know this. Within our DNA is the dna of other ancient species. This is why we have a "tail" bone, why people get born with webbed digits, or pointed ears, or internal organs that are not used for anything. Cancer and other diseases are also latent in our genes waiting for a catalyst to make it active. Similar to having dominant and recessive physical features, they come and go. Genetic engineering is working to remove these dangerous pieces of our rdna with the hopes of eradicating those detriments to our species. We're also not the only cognitively sentient species with emotion and reasoning on earth. We do have higher reasoning than other animals, but we are still animals nonetheless.

With all that in mind, I think mankind is a plague. We eat and destroy everything in our path. We propegate without planning for the future. Mankind is already overpopulating the planet. Cloning may very well become possible, but is it wise? Not in the slightest. People are already living far longer than history has been ready for. Fewer people die, more people stay alive. The population is building so fast that mankind will run out of food if we don't slow down. Stephen Hawking himself said mankind won't survive within the next 200 years due to 1 of 2 things happening. We'll either overpopulate to the point that we starve ourselves to death, or we'll blow ourselves up. So it is either, humans will literally fornicate the human race into extinction, or we'll immolate ourselves with fire. Our only hope is to concentrate on finding more planets to live on, or slow ourselves down drastically.

we are not a plague. any species that becomes too successful begins to destroy its environment in one way or another, just think too many deer on one island scenario...

as for wiping ourselves out in less than 200 years? barring any unforeseen super asteroid or the sun deciding to quiet, we'll still be around in 200 years. heck, an all-out nuclear war wouldn't be able to wipe all the humans out. (90%? sure, but not 100%). sure we are going to be entering rough times ahead, but it is far from "world ending". :)

cheers


#404    White Crane Feather

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:16 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 28 February 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

GPs or those who specialise in mental health? Have they brought it up to the doctor about hearing voices?
Not all illnesses have apparent symptoms doctors can pick up, hiding such an illness doesn't mean having a clean bill of health.

These claims are rather lacking when dealing with issues brought up in this thread.

"Cloning is impossible because God told me so" is rather empty.
Good doctors only consider Somone experiencing something  as an illness if it interfears with a happy productive life or they want it to stop. It would be very bad practice to start labeling Somone insane who is happy and productive.  Just because you have one experience of life does not mean another's is invalidated or wrong. This is a very immature view point that was given up years ago by the medical community. Mostly because it lead to horrendous miss deeds.  

Robert munroe went to a psychologist to to understand his OBEs... His doctor being a wise man, encouraged him to explore his new skill. Nothing wrong with Robert. He went on to become a sucessful writter and the munroe institute lives on in his name.

Jung spoke to a psychological construct.

Millions and millions of shaman/mystics/spiritual seekers both present and past have direct interactive relationships with other beings ( dosnt matter what they really are).

The fact is that these people are all sain and productive... Even more so in many ways and they will continue to be so for probably ad long ad humans exist.

To label people insane then try to drug them or worse based on narrow world views is the real insanity.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#405    Rlyeh

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:14 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 28 February 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Good doctors only consider Somone experiencing something  as an illness if it interfears with a happy productive life or they want it to stop.
Complete garbage. Someone who refuses treatment for cancer still has cancer.

Quote

It would be very bad practice to start labeling Somone insane who is happy and productive.  Just because you have one experience of life does not mean another's is invalidated or wrong. This is a very immature view point that was given up years ago by the medical community. Mostly because it lead to horrendous miss deeds.
You didn't answer the question. Did these people tell the doctors they hear voices?

Quote

Robert munroe went to a psychologist to to understand his OBEs... His doctor being a wise man, encouraged him to explore his new skill. Nothing wrong with Robert. He went on to become a sucessful writter and the munroe institute lives on in his name.
Good for him.

Quote

Millions and millions of shaman/mystics/spiritual seekers both present and past have direct interactive relationships with other beings ( dosnt matter what they really are).

The fact is that these people are all sain and productive... Even more so in many ways and they will continue to be so for probably ad long ad humans exist.

To label people insane then try to drug them or worse based on narrow world views is the real insanity.
Ofcourse they aren't all insane, some of them are con artists and charlatans.

Edited by Rlyeh, 28 February 2012 - 08:17 PM.





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