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Religion vs IQ


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#1    tralalala

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 02:55 AM

There have been lots of studies over the years showing that generally, the higher your IQ, the less likely you are to be religious. Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this?

http://w-uh.com/posts/031226a-religion_vs_IQ.html

http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligen...%20religion.htm

edited to add: the second link posts all of it's sources and is really interesting, the first is just easier to understand

Edited by tralalala, 13 January 2008 - 02:56 AM.


#2    eagleeye

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 03:00 AM

Religious people accept circumstantial evidence and atheists require forensic evidence to back up their beliefs.  I would say that vouches for the credibility of atheism being more intellectually defensible (thus attracting a different crowd) than religion.


#3    GetBornAgain

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 03:07 AM

There will always be exceptions to any stats. i know people with very high IQ's who still insist to indulge themselves in religion. I'm not sure how you explain away these people, they are obviously not stupid or gullible.


#4    tralalala

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 03:10 AM

GetBornAgain on Jan 12 2008, 09:07 PM, said:

There will always be exceptions to any stats. i know people with very high IQ's who still insist to indulge themselves in religion. I'm not sure how you explain away these people, they are obviously not stupid or gullible.


Oh, of course there are exceptions, I know some very smart Christians, Jews, etc, the studies just say that on average, the higher your IQ, the less likely you are to be religious, not that all religious people are stupid.


#5    Paranoid Android

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 03:17 AM

I can't really speak for statistics in studies, but only from experiences.  I have met some very smart and very dumb Christians and non-Christians, and many in between as well.  I have not noticed any real difference between the intelligence levels of Christians I meet to non-Christians I meet.

That said, the IQ is a very one-dimensional way of looking at the human intellect.  If you ever study up on Psychology, and particularly the theories of Multiple Intelligences (cf, Howard Gardner), the concept of IQ becomes less and less useful in finding out a person's knowledge and understanding.

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#6    BlindMessiah

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 03:20 AM

I don't think this is true. If you take any belief system, 90% of those who believe it can't even tell you what it is properly. The other 10% are usually very smart.


#7    WalkingWithFire

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 03:26 AM

The first website makes an important statement:

Remember my missive about correlation vs. causality?  We're not entitled to conclude causality from these data, but there are three possibilities:

1. Considering religion important lowers measured IQ (unlikely, since IQ is substantially genetic whereas belief is not).
2. The causality is via other factors not considered, such as socio-economic conditions, cultural history, or physical environment (definitely possible).
3. Having a higher measured IQ lowers your likelihood of considering religion important (my personal favorite, given the absence of evidence to the contrary).


I would be leaning towards number two.  Consider an urban population that has lots of churches, underfunded schools, and a low high-school-to-college ratio.  Also throw in gangs and understaffed faculty in these schools due to budget cuts.  Most likely these individuals will score lower academically, but I assure you religion is very important in these communities.  It's what binds many of these urban communities together.  There are other dynamics you could include as well.


#8    Belle.

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 03:49 AM

tralalala on Jan 13 2008, 03:10 AM, said:

Oh, of course there are exceptions, I know some very smart Christians, Jews, etc, the studies just say that on average, the higher your IQ, the less likely you are to be religious, not that all religious people are stupid.


I get ya tralala - your not saying "All religious people are stupid". I worked at a Catholic Uni and didn't rock up on the first day with papyrus in hand. Of course in day to day life there is absolutely no discernable difference in the intellect of religious and nonreligious people.


#9    Sherapy

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 04:28 AM

Paranoid Android on Jan 12 2008, 07:17 PM, said:

I can't really speak for statistics in studies, but only from experiences.  I have met some very smart and very dumb Christians and non-Christians, and many in between as well.  I have not noticed any real difference between the intelligence levels of Christians I meet to non-Christians I meet.

That said, the IQ is a very one-dimensional way of looking at the human intellect.  If you ever study up on Psychology, and particularly the theories of Multiple Intelligences (cf, Howard Gardner), the concept of IQ becomes less and less useful in finding out a person's knowledge and understanding.

All the best,

~ Regards, PA

exactly Pa exactly ditto...Its so superficial its a joke, one simply uses their short  term memory  stuffs if full of data takes a test...one of a few variety's that is supposed to show IQ and voila  you have BS... a very big money maker by the  way..

Gosh the public is so easily duped.....IMO

i know some genuis's that  are  christian,jewish.. it means nothing...i know some idiot NB's too...

Edited by Supra Sheri, 13 January 2008 - 04:34 AM.




#10    brave_new_world

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 04:40 AM

tralalala on Jan 13 2008, 10:55 AM, said:

There have been lots of studies over the years showing that generally, the higher your IQ, the less likely you are to be religious.


What happen to Rene Descartes, Issac Newton, Blaise Pascal, Albert Einstein and Erwin Schrodinger then? blink.gif

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#11    Mad Manfred

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 04:52 AM

brave_new_world on Jan 13 2008, 03:40 PM, said:

What happen to Rene Descartes, Issac Newton, Blaise Pascal, Albert Einstein and Erwin Schrodinger then? blink.gif


They had it nailed into them at a younger age just like the rest of them. Just because they're intelligent doesn't mean they don't fear death and the nothingness thereafter.

And as far as Atheists being smarter than Theists? I've met people from both groups and can safely say that theres an equal amount of inbred lacktards on both sides.


#12    brave_new_world

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 05:11 AM

Mad Manfred on Jan 13 2008, 12:52 PM, said:

They had it nailed into them at a younger age just like the rest of them. Just because they're intelligent doesn't mean they don't fear death and the nothingness thereafter.


I never said that. They were however religious and very bright or revolutionary thinkers.

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#13    BlindMessiah

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 05:57 AM

http://ken-jennings.com/blog/?p=287

I'm sure you've all heard of the jeopardy star Ken Jennings, this is a link to his blog where he was challenged by pro poker player David Schlanksy.

Ken Jennings, a mormon, was challenged to pass a polygraph test affirming that he believes in his religion. If he passes, he may take an IQ test challenge again David for fifty grand.

It's exactly what this thread is talking about though. David made a statement that no one who believes in god can be smarter than him. Thus the challenge.

Edited by BlindMessiah, 13 January 2008 - 07:17 AM.


#14    Condescending

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:47 AM

brave_new_world on Jan 13 2008, 06:11 AM, said:

I never said that. They were however religious and very bright or revolutionary thinkers.


Einstein were not religious, its a false claim you realy should have read up upon before claiming as fact. Its an old argument which have been debunked a ton of times, come on =/

believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings - Einstein

Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy for truth - einstein

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestation of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this sense alone, I am a deeply religious man. - einstein

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.  - einstein

The best label for einstein would be either atheist or the I guess mosst fitting term "Pantheist"

Now I would like to end with one last quote that I take pride in following myself but so far pretty much havent seen anyone else do on these boards.
"learn to say, "I do not know" or "learn to say "I was wrong" wink2.gif

Edited by Condescending, 13 January 2008 - 11:53 AM.

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#15    Paranoid Android

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 11:54 AM

^Einstein was not atheist.  He did not believe in a PERSONAL GOD, but that does not mean he did not believe in god.  His reason for seeking scientific answers was to seek answers for what god is.  While he was definitely not a Christian, it is a fallacy to suggest that he was an atheist.  He believed in a God, so perhaps he was a Deist,  or perhaps Pantheist as you suggest.  But not atheist in any way.  All the best,

~ PA

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