82 replies to this topic

[hetrodoxly]

InHuman on Jan 17 2008, 12:05 AM, said:

Say what?

Just another case of an Asian stamping his feet, they don't even have to wear the turban

[Fluffybunny]

Tiggs on Jan 15 2008, 12:25 PM, said:

Hmmmm. Is it as flawed as the law that doesn't allow him to carry his kirpan on Airplanes, too?

My religion requires me to carry an M-60 with me all the time; not doing so would be a grave insult to my creator. I cant be caught without it.


Did I mention I am going to be doing a lot of flying?

[Spurious George]

Quote

Courthouses in Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Toronto also prohibit kirpans, said Weiler, adding the incident will be reviewed.

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/2008/0...775644-sun.html

That sounds to me like kirpans are allowed in most courthouses in Canada... kind of moots the whole "Like OMG!! This is Canada, like respect our laws!!!" point doesnt it

Not even a picture posted of a Sikh with the biggest kirpan ever made will make it a valid point

[mike delancy]

SnakeProphet on Jan 15 2008, 05:39 PM, said:

Same could happen to a police man. He asked to be escorted, that's a reasonable compromise. Good to see bureucracy at work.

http://sikhcoalition.org/InfoKirpan.asp

Certainly, there is alot of bias and misunderstanding among the responders on this topic. Although I am not a Sikh, I have friends of various backgrounds. One of my close friends who happens to be a Sikh was discussing this issue with me and I learned that for a Sikh the kirpan is not a dagger, or knife it is much similar to a crucifix for a christian or catholic person. The crucifix could just as easily be used as a weapon as the kirpan; so we shouldn't make such assertions. As I have come to understand, Sikhs are supposed to carry a kirpan at all times to help others who might be in danger, and this is realized by every nation. Certainly those who know nothing about Sikhism or the kirpan will only make things more problematic due to their ignorance. I took the initiative in finding out more about the kirpan and what it means to a Sikh rather than make an opinion on something I knew nothing about.
Also, every court case has been WON by Sikhs in allowing them to continue practicing their faith fearlessly and wearing the kirpan on their possession at all times. The word Kirpan is actually TWO words put together, KIRP & AN which literally means "To Help The HELPLESS." For a Sikh, this is a manatory duty as prescribed in their Religious scripture.

We should be more open-minded and educate ourselves in better understanding the traditions of minority groups rather than make opinions on a subject we know nothing about; this is the only solution to a more peaceful world.

Here is some info. I found online for those who are truly open-minded/interested to learn more on this issue:

http://sikhcoalition.org/InfoKirpan.asp

-mike

[Pinky Floyd]

mike delancy on Jan 23 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

We should be more open-minded and educate ourselves in better understanding the traditions of minority groups rather than make opinions on a subject we know nothing about; this is the only solution to a more peaceful world.

Only solution??  

No..Anther solution would be for them to keep their crap at home and 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'.. And yet an even better solution is for them to stay where they started out at before they even moved to the west in the first place..

Them moving to a western society and bringing their backwards superstitions with them and expecting us (the west) to capitulate to them at every turn takes gall...They know about the west before they get here.  I see no reason for me to have to 'know' about their society.  "Their" society is in actuality a half a world away and can stay there for all I care.  Let them learn about the society that they are in, not hanging on to the one they are escaping from.. If it's so great, why did they leave it??

What if beating their wife senseless for whatever reason was part of their tradition??  Would that be ok??  In our society, of course not.  WE have norms that OUR society has created and abide by..It's them that doesn't respect us..

If they have a problem with our norms and the way we live..Why the hell are they here??

Edited by Pinky Floyd, 24 January 2008 - 03:44 AM.

[MissMelsWell]

I'm familiar with the Kirpan and what it means and how it's used. I work with Sikh's and have been to India a number of times.

What it comes down to is your not allowed to take even a box cutter into a court house or on board a plane. It's not because we worry that some Sikh will flip out and hurt someone with his Kirpan, that's not it at all, it's that someone else could wrestle the weapon from him and use it... or worse, hurt the Sikh trying to get at his kirpan.

The Kirpan is a bladed instrument, a crucifix is NOT.

Sikh's are in general really good people with good philosophies and ideas, I have great respect for them (and every Sikh I've ever known is just plain sweet) but that's not enough to make it safe for them to carry their blades in a few limited places... no courts, no planes, no visiting areas in prisons, yadda yadda...

[ifisurvive]

mike delancy on Jan 24 2008, 02:50 AM, said:

The crucifix could just as easily be used as a weapon as the kirpan

Easily, but not as effectively. Unless you're used to seeing unusually pointy crucifixes  

ETA: This perhaps?

Edited by ifisurvive, 24 January 2008 - 11:58 AM.

[keithisco]

OK, fairly simple, wearing a Turban, and carrying a Kirpan, are simply traditional methods of showing your faith. These are not religious canons and many Sikhs neither wear traditional clothes nor carry Kirpan.

So, it is not a religious requirement to carry a Kirpan, the teaching behind it is "Help others". So, no religious affront was caused by the request to remove it, only offense to someone's belief in tradition.

Is there really any more that needs to be said on this?