Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Telekinesis


  • Please log in to reply
275 replies to this topic

#46    eight bits

eight bits

    ...

  • Member
  • 6,261 posts
  • Joined:24 May 2007

Posted 25 January 2008 - 09:03 PM

Hi, inkblot.

I was actually thinking of replying to the version of your post as it was before you edited it.

The only issue here, as I see it, is whether someone can in good conscience advise a child to look into the science of the subject, given that the child has already expressed an interest.

The other day, when I was researching something else, I noticed that Daryl J. Bem has done a number of recent investigations on the ganzfeld experiments and such. Bem is a very big deal in psychology, who retired from Cornell after stints at Carnegie-Mellon and Stanford.

http://dbem.ws/

If Bem thinks it's worth his time, then perhaps it would not be so awful a waste of a 14 year-old's time. And the 14 year-old is almost surely going to profit more from "collateral benefit" (other skills and knowledge acquired while researching something else) than a retired Ivy League academic superstar.

Posted Image

#47    Atheist God

Atheist God

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,438 posts
  • Joined:10 Jul 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Winnipeg, Canadistan

  • At war with the evil Drug Enforcement Agency for over a decade!

Posted 25 January 2008 - 10:08 PM

eight bits on Jan 25 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

Hi, inkblot.

I was actually thinking of replying to the version of your post as it was before you edited it.

The only issue here, as I see it, is whether someone can in good conscience advise a child to look into the science of the subject, given that the child has already expressed an interest.

The other day, when I was researching something else, I noticed that Daryl J. Bem has done a number of recent investigations on the ganzfeld experiments and such. Bem is a very big deal in psychology, who retired from Cornell after stints at Carnegie-Mellon and Stanford.

http://dbem.ws/

If Bem thinks it's worth his time, then perhaps it would not be so awful a waste of a 14 year-old's time. And the 14 year-old is almost surely going to profit more from "collateral benefit" (other skills and knowledge acquired while researching something else) than a retired Ivy League academic superstar.


See the main problem I have with Bem is that he already believes the consciousness operates independently from the brain which is simply just not true at all. The conscious does indeed reside in the brain and this has been proven via the use of conscious altering substances like LSD for example. If your mind can be altered via the use of a 'physical' chemical reaction in the brain then your mind resides in the physical realm not the metaphysical one.

Fact is his website doesn't really show anything and he simply links to other websites that discuss psi etc.

There are chemicals which i have extracted from various plant species that can permanently alter consciousness direct physical evidence that the mind itself is not separate from the body.


Quote

http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Uncovered%20psi%20wheel.html

That page provides a real example about how to do science at home. Its subject is psi wheels, but there must be similar material for other performance abilities, too.

And anybody who reads that, and who is not already checked out in science, is going to learn about a lot more than psi wheels.


We knew about this website a long time ago here.

Fact is I posted this site last year sometime and me and another member explained how simple thermal dynamics were at work etc. They denied this was the case and continued to attempt and justify that the psi wheel was a legit means of moving an object with the mind.






Posted Image

A site I write my own articles. sw-gm check em out.

#48    eight bits

eight bits

    ...

  • Member
  • 6,261 posts
  • Joined:24 May 2007

Posted 25 January 2008 - 10:36 PM

My point in linking to the psi wheel webpage was to give an example of a good site for encouraging discussion. I was clear that I had already seen the link posted here, and gave the UM thread where I saw it. It was not my intention to deny your priority in the find, but this was the thread where I read about it.

You disagree with Bem about the locus of consciousness. Fine with me. Bem presents his arguments, you present yours. Science, or is it philosophy?, gets done. However, since Bem is about as "establishment" as any scientist gets, his thoughts on what are appropriate research questions can safely be placed within the mainstream.

The issue here was whether a 14 year-old's time might be spent looking into a certain question without unconscionable waste. I think it is relevant that a professor emeritus from an Ivy League university, well-respected and at the end of a stellar career thinks the inquiry is a good use of his time.

The page I gave is Bem's personal page. It includes links to his papers, not just other websites (although I am unsure what would be wrong with that). The main point is that it summarizes his c.v., so that people can verify where the guy has worked, what his job titles were, what he has published on other psychological matters, etc.

In other words, that Bem is a real scientist, not a jerk.

Edited by eight bits, 25 January 2008 - 10:37 PM.

Posted Image

#49    Atheist God

Atheist God

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,438 posts
  • Joined:10 Jul 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Winnipeg, Canadistan

  • At war with the evil Drug Enforcement Agency for over a decade!

Posted 26 January 2008 - 01:23 AM

Quote

My point in linking to the psi wheel webpage was to give an example of a good site for encouraging discussion. I was clear that I had already seen the link posted here, and gave the UM thread where I saw it. It was not my intention to deny your priority in the find, but this was the thread where I read about it.


But it didn't encourage discussion though, the mechanics at work regarding the psi wheel were simply denied even though it's true.

Quote

You disagree with Bem about the locus of consciousness. Fine with me. Bem presents his arguments, you present yours. Science, or is it philosophy?, gets done. However, since Bem is about as "establishment" as any scientist gets, his thoughts on what are appropriate research questions can safely be placed within the mainstream.


Psychology is a great science however while it is about understanding the mind itself and the thought process etc. it doesn't study the physical mechanics at work inside the brain. The physical mechanics are done by people like me who develop drugs in cooperation with neurologists and other doctors who specialize in the physical properties of the brain and body.

It's not that I simply disagree where the consciousness resides I know for a fact it resides in the brain and does not operate independently from the body. Sorry but biochemical/electrical reactions in the brain is not enough to move an object thus the reason why we have finger and opposable thumbs etc.

We have been given all the tools we need to succeed and thus making such abilities pointless.

Quote

The issue here was whether a 14 year-old's time might be spent looking into a certain question without unconscionable waste. I think it is relevant that a professor emeritus from an Ivy League university, well-respected and at the end of a stellar career thinks the inquiry is a good use of his time.


If he has a lot of time on his hands why not study parapsychology (not a real science).

Fact is being a professor at an expensive ivy league school doesn't automatically make you an expert. He is an expert in psychology no doubt about it but just because he is and he now chooses to end his career studying psychic phenomenon doesn't mean he will find anything.

He still hasn't presented tangible evidence to the mainstream scientific community and until he does my opinion remains the same.

Quote

The page I gave is Bem's personal page. It includes links to his papers, not just other websites (although I am unsure what would be wrong with that). The main point is that it summarizes his c.v., so that people can verify where the guy has worked, what his job titles were, what he has published on other psychological matters, etc.


I don't care about where he has worked and what his job titles were... if i wanted to know i could have googled it myself, his page mostly consists of his work in psychology outside of psychic phenomenon, the guy has a real job and so parapsychology takes a back seat.

Quote

In other words, that Bem is a real scientist, not a jerk.


You don't know if he's a jerk or not, you don't know the guy personally.

Since TK for example could be something measured, and studied physically very much in the same manner that meditation can be a psychology degree simply doesn't cut it. Just because one guy with credentials wants to study something that may not exist and likely does not exist still doesn't make it any more viable of an idea then it already is.



Posted Image

A site I write my own articles. sw-gm check em out.

#50    eight bits

eight bits

    ...

  • Member
  • 6,261 posts
  • Joined:24 May 2007

Posted 26 January 2008 - 02:01 AM

Say what?

From the site you say you gave, and which I gave again:

http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Uncovered%20psi%20wheel.html

Quote

Today I wanted to come up with a test that would prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the psi wheel moved because of heat, and heat alone...

... What I wanted was a test that you could all do at home with normal day-to-day stuff...

... So, never give up, keep looking for a solution and you will find one. The idea came to me as I was making a cup of tea. I figured that if I placed some mugs around the pw and filled them with boiling water the pw will spin, and spin fast because of the large temperature difference between the mugs and the ambient air temperature. Easy to do for all of you and no precise measurements needed, just boil a kettle! But would it work?

[Picture of six tea mugs surrounding a psi wheel]

As the photo shows, I placed three mugs each side and left a small gap front and back, just as I do with my hands. I poured boiling water into the mugs. Even before I had finished filling the mugs the psi wheel was spinning.

IT SPUN SO FAST IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO TIME IT!

You can make out the green eraser within the circle of mugs, you can't see the psi wheel because it was spinning so fast it is just a blur on the photo.

No need to take more word for it, just boil a kettle.

I appreciate that some of you may still claim that it is "my subconscious" spinning the psi wheel, but we have to try and be reasonable here. I think that we can all agree that it IS the heat making it spin.

NO TK INVOLVED AT ALL.


And your reaction is

Quote

the mechanics at work regarding the psi wheel were simply denied even though it's true.


He agrees with you. Fully, without hedge, and in capital letters.

You don't care, or can't keep straight, whether someone agrees with you or not, you trash them anyway.

We can discuss the rest some other time.

Posted Image

#51    Atheist God

Atheist God

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,438 posts
  • Joined:10 Jul 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Winnipeg, Canadistan

  • At war with the evil Drug Enforcement Agency for over a decade!

Posted 26 January 2008 - 06:43 AM

eight bits on Jan 25 2008, 08:01 PM, said:

Say what?

From the site you say you gave, and which I gave again:

http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Uncovered%20psi%20wheel.html



And your reaction is



He agrees with you. Fully, without hedge, and in capital letters.

You don't care, or can't keep straight, whether someone agrees with you or not, you trash them anyway.

We can discuss the rest some other time.


I haven't trashed anyone just merely show my opposition... If all I did was trash people as you claim I would have been banned long ago.

You yourself in the last post have violated board rules by attacking me in an attempt flame bait me etc.

Posted Image

A site I write my own articles. sw-gm check em out.

#52    eight bits

eight bits

    ...

  • Member
  • 6,261 posts
  • Joined:24 May 2007

Posted 26 January 2008 - 10:37 AM

Anyone who is still reading this can check the webpage, and verify that I quoted its contents accurately and fairly.

It is a resolutely pro-science page, offering a thoroughly orthodox interpretation of psi wheels.

False accusations of flamebaiting do not advance the discussion. I called you on a false claim, namely that you were familiar with the site's contents. It is obvious that you were altogether unfamiliar with those contents. You now refuse to retract your adverse remarks.

Fine. All I can do is to recommend that all psi-kiddies bookmark this thread. And the next time any k-skeptic says "where's your evidence?" then the victim should reply "Let's look at what happens when drop-dead evidence about a simple yes-or-no matter is supplied to one of your leaders."

See you around.

Posted Image

#53    greenboy

greenboy

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 132 posts
  • Joined:03 Sep 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:PA, USA

  • "simplify, simplify, simplify" Thoreau

Posted 26 January 2008 - 10:56 AM

I have to say the following:

Vanquish please read the name of the forum again. And yes is a strange forum.  But I think is unfair to criticize people in this forum. We come her to this forum to talk to people like us to talk about estrange things and to learn from people like us. If you don't like it please leave.  And don't comeback.

Telekinesis I see that as extremely helpful tool.  When a fish bowl fell from the shelf, you stop it. when a child is falling from a tree. when a baseball goes for a window, you stop it. and Other millions of moments,like a doctor in an emergency doing CPR can't reach a medication. or a hunter in the woods can't reach his weapon and a bear is coming his way. Etc Etc Etc.  So I think if is a way of developing this without technology ( I think is just a matter of time to get a technology to develop telekinesis)  will be very useful to the human kind.  However I do believe God made us limited so we should be more humble and work harder.




Incorrigible1 on Jan 22 2008, 10:52 PM, said:

How incredibly shallow. Seeking to develop telekinesis equates to laziness? That's simply an ignorant opinion.




#54    drakonwick

drakonwick

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,198 posts
  • Joined:15 Jan 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Battlefield Earth

  • There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.

Posted 26 January 2008 - 06:05 PM

greenboy on Jan 26 2008, 05:56 AM, said:

I have to say the following:

Vanquish please read the name of the forum again. And yes is a strange forum.  But I think is unfair to criticize people in this forum. We come her to this forum to talk to people like us to talk about estrange things and to learn from people like us. If you don't like it please leave.  And don't comeback.
Telekinesis I see that as extremely helpful tool.  When a fish bowl fell from the shelf, you stop it. when a child is falling from a tree. when a baseball goes for a window, you stop it. and Other millions of moments,like a doctor in an emergency doing CPR can't reach a medication. or a hunter in the woods can't reach his weapon and a bear is coming his way. Etc Etc Etc.  So I think if is a way of developing this without technology ( I think is just a matter of time to get a technology to develop telekinesis)  will be very useful to the human kind.  However I do believe God made us limited so we should be more humble and work harder.

Fair enough, I will admit that psychokinesis could be a handy ability. (Thats if this supposed ability could ever be possible.)

Please don't ever ask anyone to stop posting and leave just because they have an opposing opinion.
That really doesn't say much for yourself, as you're opinions differ from mine! I could just as easily say that if you do not like my opinion then leave and don't come back. But, I do not see the use in expressing ones self in that manner, as I see both sides as having equal input on these controversial subjects.


Regards,
Tom

Edited by Vanquish, 26 January 2008 - 06:07 PM.

I remember the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." - J. Robert Oppenheimer.

#55    Atheist God

Atheist God

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,438 posts
  • Joined:10 Jul 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Winnipeg, Canadistan

  • At war with the evil Drug Enforcement Agency for over a decade!

Posted 27 January 2008 - 12:14 AM

Quote

Anyone who is still reading this can check the webpage, and verify that I quoted its contents accurately and fairly.

It is a resolutely pro-science page, offering a thoroughly orthodox interpretation of psi wheels.


No one said it wasn't so whats your point?

Quote

False accusations of flamebaiting do not advance the discussion. I called you on a false claim, namely that you were familiar with the site's contents. It is obvious that you were altogether unfamiliar with those contents. You now refuse to retract your adverse remarks.


So because I said I agreed that thermodynamics were at work in regards to the psi-wheel... Where did I say the site was wrong in explaining that TK really isn't at work here.

All I am saying is that when I had posted this website in a thread quite sometime ago people who believed that TK was moving the psi-wheel and not heat refused to accept an obvious fact and continued to defend the psi-wheel as a legit means of measuring TK.

I have no remarks to retract especially in regards to a website that I linked to here well over a year ago.

I still fail to see how agreeing with the findings on the website is a false claim and implies i didn't read a website I was aware of long before you were even a member here. I havent made any accusation against you and yet you continue to attack me.

As far as I am concerned I don't even know what your arguing about because as I see it now this whole post along with others are simply being made in an attempt to make me look like the bad guy here.

I know how to deal with people like you and it's not giving in to anger either I will just simply report you... Stop making your posts personal.  

Quote

Fine. All I can do is to recommend that all psi-kiddies bookmark this thread. And the next time any k-skeptic says "where's your evidence?" then the victim should reply "Let's look at what happens when drop-dead evidence about a simple yes-or-no matter is supplied to one of your leaders."

See you around.


There is no evidence to support TK or at least you nor anyone else can provide anything other then names and speculation.

Fact is the website you provided which has been posted on these boards before does not support the existence of TK in fact it completely debunks the psi-wheel... so why would they use it as evidence to support their claim?

Posted Image

A site I write my own articles. sw-gm check em out.

#56    eight bits

eight bits

    ...

  • Member
  • 6,261 posts
  • Joined:24 May 2007

Posted 27 January 2008 - 01:32 AM

Thank you for clarifying your remark "But it didn't encourage discussion though, the mechanics at work regarding the psi wheel were simply denied even though it's true."

That accomplished, I think that enough about each of our views has been placed into the record that anyone who is interested can come to his or her own decision about the remaining issues which divide us.

Posted Image

#57    Atheist God

Atheist God

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,438 posts
  • Joined:10 Jul 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Winnipeg, Canadistan

  • At war with the evil Drug Enforcement Agency for over a decade!

Posted 27 January 2008 - 07:21 AM

eight bits on Jan 26 2008, 07:32 PM, said:

Thank you for clarifying your remark "But it didn't encourage discussion though, the mechanics at work regarding the psi wheel were simply denied even though it's true."

That accomplished, I think that enough about each of our views has been placed into the record that anyone who is interested can come to his or her own decision about the remaining issues which divide us.


Agreed it's about time this thread dies the death it deserves and slips into obscurity only to be resurrected in the future.

Posted Image

A site I write my own articles. sw-gm check em out.

#58    nara

nara

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 44 posts
  • Joined:06 Jan 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Volunteer state

Posted 27 January 2008 - 03:22 PM

Vanquish on Jan 22 2008, 04:21 PM, said:

I respect other people's opinions! But, that doesn't mean I have to believe the stuff thats being posted in this
section of the forum.



Sorry, I was In a bad mood.  mellow.gif

:D

#59    nara

nara

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 44 posts
  • Joined:06 Jan 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Volunteer state

Posted 27 January 2008 - 03:28 PM

This is just turning into a flame-war. I'm considering giving this up because it's turning into the kind of thread I hate. disgust.gif

:D

#60    Iwanci

Iwanci

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 41 posts
  • Joined:10 Aug 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Blue Planet

  • "When the student is ready the master appears"

Posted 27 January 2008 - 11:06 PM

Explain this? sceptics explain plz hahahahaha i dont think u can thou!hey fellow belivers PK is real do not let any1 tell u otherwise.many ppl in history could even levitate themself as well as teleportation.i dont like sceptics what a sad way 2 live trying 2 ruin ppls belives n goals with their nonsense.i need no more proof.this Norwegian man in this clip is saying it took him many years of hard focus training to pull this off n THIS IS NO TRICK...sceptics i know what u belive lol dont bother.Its a wonderful world of explained n unexplained mysteries.                                                                                                                                                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69GMr3RlpgU&NRAttached File  02_lg.jpg   38K   6 downloads





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users