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Still don't believe in psychic powers, eh?


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23 replies to this topic

#1    Rolci

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 08:50 PM


I was just about to scan the article for you guys when I found a direct link on UM to the online version. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770 The article speaks for itself.


#2    Wallydraigle

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 08:58 PM

I believe that everyone is equally psychic.  That is to say that everyone has the same level of psychic ability.


#3    Raptor

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 09:00 PM

I'll wait until I see a scientific paper scrutinized under peer-review, not a newspaper article...


#4    Rolci

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 09:12 PM

If you subscribed to BBC's Focus Magazine you would've found out about the fact that telepathy does exist ages ago. Sorry I can't send you a link, Focus don't publish their articles online. I can't scan it for you either as I read the article at my workplace about a year ago and that was the article that made me subscribe to the magazine.


#5    Wallydraigle

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 04:13 AM

Rolci on Jan 29 2008, 04:12 PM, said:

If you subscribed to BBC's Focus Magazine you would've found out about the fact that telepathy does exist ages ago. Sorry I can't send you a link, Focus don't publish their articles online. I can't scan it for you either as I read the article at my workplace about a year ago and that was the article that made me subscribe to the magazine.


That's okay, we'll just take your word for it then.


#6    Rolci

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 08:11 PM

You don't need to take anybody's word for anything. If you were offered $1.000.000 if you could come up with a copy of said issue by tomorrow, you'd surely come up with an idea - and most probably would find that it wasn't quite impossible to do. Thing is, if you really want to find out, you will. If you're lazy or just don't really care - you'll just forget the whole thing. Simple as that.


#7    jay123

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 09:52 PM

The Daily mail is a tabloid, it publishes stories that sell. do you believe everything in the daily mail? i'm sure that you don't. So what makes this article- just because it supports your views- any more valid?



It's like the elders told me, no one person can do everything, but everyone can do something.~ Immortal technique & Akir.

#8    Nucular

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 10:23 PM

Surely you realise that a newspaper article isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already believe in that sort of thing?

The studies themselves are likely very interesting.  I'm looking forward to reading the actual reports, which is the only way methodology (which is of paramount importance) can be assessed.  Whether it's a repeatable effect, whether results collated over time (through meta-analysis), and particularly whether other researchers manage to replicate the results, will be the main questions.

Quote

If you subscribed to BBC's Focus Magazine you would've found out about the fact that telepathy does exist ages ago. Sorry I can't send you a link, Focus don't publish their articles online. I can't scan it for you either as I read the article at my workplace about a year ago and that was the article that made me subscribe to the magazine.


Still not a scientific journal, but a popular science magazine - which, I should say, have several times proved themselves to have a somewhat ropey grasp of the main issues in the area of psi research.  In fact, I think I read that article - probably still have it somewhere - but don't remember anything particularly remarkable.  Again, as a commercial magazine their remit is to shift units, and making extravagant claims will always shift more than conservative but sensible discussion.

But by all means, do present the arguments you found compelling original.gif


#9    Wallydraigle

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 11:14 PM

Telepathy isn't real.  The article speaks for itself.
grin2.gif

I mean, come on.  Maybe it exists, maybe it doesn't, but to hold up a silly article from this ridiculous website as irrefutable proof is comical.  To talk down to folks who need further convincing is arrogant.  Anyone can put anything on the internet.  The Daily Mail proves it.  This post proves it further.  The Daily Mail article sites no references, is not peer reviewed, and is authored by a man who also writes about crying virgin Marry statues, psychic healing, and photos of angels.


#10    Rolci

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 12:39 AM

i seriously don't understand skeptics. what are they really waiting for? what kind of evidence? when genuine sincere people on this forum tell about their experiences and it sounds unbelievable, you say "nah, he's lying". original.gif i really find this a funny attitude. i think the only thing that could prove them anything if they try it themselves. and that's exactly what they'll never do. "why try something that won't work anyway?" Right? practicioners of a few kinds of martial arts are using chi worldwide. i would feel silly to think it's BS. if i ever took a martial art seriously enough to get deeply engaged in it trying to perfect techniques, and give using chi a try one day, and didn't succeed, not even after 10 years, but my conventional techniques were developed considerably, i'd feel silly to claim that i can use chi, especially knowing that there's no way i can prove it because i know it's a lie. anyway, i don't want to dwell on this one. there is a pattern i noticed during my time browsing forums like this. there are those who are skeptical about psychic stuff but give these abilities a try. the majority report failure. they probably genuinely expected themselves to fail, or didn't try hard/long enough, lack of committment, whatever. still a substantial percentage report success and describe their surprise and amazement. if you convert this percentage into numbers, well... you do the maths. And then there are those who never try. waiting for... i can't even make something up. surely they won't learn martial arts for 20 years to find out. instead they sit before a computer waiting for a youtube video that doesn't look that much of a fake. or an article in what they consider a proper scientific journal. and then say what? "ok, now i believe." and then what? give it a try and find that it works? and think about how their lives could've been different had they found out sooner? hmm... i don't believe this'll happen any time soon. as the article above rightly said, info is withheld. you will be waiting forever living your bleak lives when you could have a life full of "magic", more worthy of living for an intelligent spiritual being. you throw that away out of ignorance trying to prove believers to be stupid gullible idiots. and as long as you don't see that video or don't read that article - you think you win. whatever you say, Mr Winner.
I might well be wrong in this little opinion of mine. And I'm sure there'll be a few who'll try to prove me wrong. I look forward to that, i wonder where my theory is erroneous. let me guess - there are no psychic powers. you know this without having investigated it personally. you just know. Ok, you win.

Edited by Rolci, 01 February 2008 - 12:44 AM.


#11    jay123

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 01:16 PM

Wallydraigle on Jan 31 2008, 11:14 PM, said:

Telepathy isn't real.  The article speaks for itself.
grin2.gif

I mean, come on.  Maybe it exists, maybe it doesn't, but to hold up a silly article from this ridiculous website as irrefutable proof is comical.  To talk down to folks who need further convincing is arrogant.  Anyone can put anything on the internet.  The Daily Mail proves it.  This post proves it further.  The Daily Mail article sites no references, is not peer reviewed, and is authored by a man who also writes about crying virgin Marry statues, psychic healing, and photos of angels.



I find it strange how believers see skeptics as against psychic ability, alot of have treid and i assure you ALL want these powers to be real. But we can't take unimpressive evidence for amazing claims at face value.

point is iv'e never seen anyone on this board he has claimed psychic powers perform them. I'll believe when i see valid evidence.

It's like the elders told me, no one person can do everything, but everyone can do something.~ Immortal technique & Akir.

#12    Nucular

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 01:45 PM

Rolci on Feb 1 2008, 12:39 AM, said:

i seriously don't understand skeptics. what are they really waiting for? what kind of evidence? when genuine sincere people on this forum tell about their experiences and it sounds unbelievable, you say "nah, he's lying". original.gif


I'm new on this forum, as you may have spotted (I do post on similar boards though), but in my lurking - despite seeing quite a few instances of friction between believers and non-believers in various phenomena - I don't think I've seen any, or many, examples of people being accused of outright lying.  Some people do lie, of course.  Some fully believe in what they say they do, but may be mistaken.  Nevertheless, this isn't what's being discussed here: what is being discussed is whether your expectation that a Daily Mail article will be considered irrefutable proof by sceptics is reasonable.  I think you have your answer on that one.

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i really find this a funny attitude. i think the only thing that could prove them anything if they try it themselves. and that's exactly what they'll never do. "why try something that won't work anyway?" Right?


Well, I do try to 'try things myself', and maybe that puts me in a minority... but I'm off on a ghost hunt tonight (seriously).  Nope, I don't expect to find anything, but yes, I really really hope I do.  But I also think it completely understandable that people don't want to give up their time and often other resources to do something they truly doubt will do what it says on the tin, at the insistence of people who rarely if ever attempt to even properly read, let alone understand, their posts.  I have declined to do some pretty silly things in my time as well... and who among us who has argued with religious believers of almost any stripe haven't declined to simply 'give up your life to God and see what happens'?

Quote

<snip>there is a pattern i noticed during my time browsing forums like this. there are those who are skeptical about psychic stuff but give these abilities a try. the majority report failure. they probably genuinely expected themselves to fail, or didn't try hard/long enough, lack of committment, whatever.


Or, there was nothing there to 'work'.  I should also add that many sceptics, myself included, have in the past fully believed in certain phenomena, and have tried and tried to make it work.  We haven't all always been cynical - some of us have had to work quite hard on it!

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still a substantial percentage report success and describe their surprise and amazement. if you convert this percentage into numbers, well... you do the maths.


Erm - shouldn't you do the maths?  Do you have any examples of this happening?  I know of many believers who claim to have once been sceptics, but most of those sorts of accounts seem to belie the fact that the individual never really understood what scepticism was, and never have I seen an argument compelling to other sceptics given by such a poster.

Quote

And then there are those who never try. waiting for... i can't even make something up. surely they won't learn martial arts for 20 years to find out. instead they sit before a computer waiting for a youtube video that doesn't look that much of a fake.


I doubt a YouTube video will ever convince a sceptic of anything, other than the SFX or conjuring skills of the subject (or lack thereof).

QUOTE
or an article in what they consider a proper scientific journal.


Well, possibly a lot of articles, of a certain type, by many different authors, could go some way.

QUOTE
and then say what? "ok, now i believe." and then what? give it a try and find that it works? and think about how their lives could've been different had they found out sooner?


Well, for myself, I'm waiting to say "wow, I was wrong - look at this amazing field of science that's opened up!"  And then consider that where once there was no evidence, now there is plenty.  And not regret a single second of my time spent as a disbeliever, but to continue to use those critical thinking skills to check other claims, and to hopefully help advance, in any small way I could, the investigation of the newly-discovered phenomenon.

What I wouldn't do, on the other hand, is give up my common sense, or sit on a message board presenting blurry photos and second-hand accounts to try to convince anyone who remained sceptical.

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hmm... i don't believe this'll happen any time soon.


No, me neither.

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as the article above rightly said, info is withheld.


If the information is withheld, then neither you nor I know what it says.

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you will be waiting forever living your bleak lives when you could have a life full of "magic", more worthy of living for an intelligent spiritual being.


Here's something that I really do find patronising: the idea that sceptics must live 'bleak' lives.  I think there's plenty of magic in the real world, in the world around us that we can see and measure and interact with - why should we invent another one?  And I have to say, the examples of supernatural belief actually enriching one's life I think are quite few and far between... when I think back to the money I spent and the time I wasted as a believer in superpowers (I went through quite a phase during which I'd rather sit and look at an obstinately rigid spoon, or trying to turn invisible, than go outside and actually do something) I beg to differ with your comment.

QUOTE
you throw that away out of ignorance trying to prove believers to be stupid gullible idiots. and as long as you don't see that video or don't read that article - you think you win. whatever you say, Mr Winner.


I do no such thing.  I have no interest in proving you or anyone else to be a gullible fool; I only hope to intelligently discuss what's real and what is not, with a view to learning something, or at least checking that I'm not mistaken.  Now go and read the thread title again, and consider to whom that particular accusation might better apply.

QUOTE
I might well be wrong in this little opinion of mine. And I'm sure there'll be a few who'll try to prove me wrong. I look forward to that, i wonder where my theory is erroneous. let me guess - there are no psychic powers. you know this without having investigated it personally. you just know. Ok, you win.


I, and most other scpetics I read hereabouts, don't claim to 'just know' anything.  That's the point of science and scepticism: we don't know, so we go out and look.

And anyway, win what?


#13    nohands

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 02:30 PM

i dont care about skeptics as long as I myself knows about the real unreal world.
Rolci nice to read you hehe,, can i ask what is your experience with chi?? since im into it i dont know the real
essence of it even though I always read about it....i would like to hear other thought on it.
original.gif


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#14    jay123

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 02:36 PM

nohands on Feb 1 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

i dont care about skeptics as long as I myself knows about the real unreal world.
Rolci nice to read you hehe,, can i ask what is your experience with chi?? since im into it i dont know the real
essence of it even though I always read about it....i would like to hear other thought on it.
original.gif



Remember this whole thread was a challenge towards us skeptics, what were you expecting us to do?


It's like the elders told me, no one person can do everything, but everyone can do something.~ Immortal technique & Akir.

#15    The Skeptic Eric Raven

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 04:35 PM

Rolci on Jan 29 2008, 02:50 PM, said:

I was just about to scan the article for you guys when I found a direct link on UM to the online version. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770 The article speaks for itself.

Oh my god. I suddenly believe. This one article did it. NOT.

It will take numerous scientific studies having consistent results to definitively prove psi powers. Thanks for trying though.

WHAT WE WANT IS REAL scientific proof.

Edited by Eric Raven The Skeptic, 01 February 2008 - 04:38 PM.

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