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Dead Body Remains in Shipwreck


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#61    Queen in the North

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 09:29 PM

That was rather chilling, C_C!

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#62    behaviour???

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:50 PM

Scientifically Speaking,A dead body will float to the surface of the water if it is dead and thats why we find dead bodies in rivers and nearby water sources...It gets trapped in the engine room and suddenly divers sees the body floating...Its all messed

Thanks
B???

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#63    JustMeRicky

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 04:41 AM

View PostxCrimsonx, on 09 February 2008 - 01:01 AM, said:

Well. sounds interesting. Althought there might not have been fish to munch old Whitey away, but what about the microscopic bactieria that I would think after neary 100 years would have made a bit of damage over time.

He would of had to have been frozen to still be in tact.

Its a little bit like makeing Ox tail stew, no matter what the temperatures the meat is still gunna fall of the  bone at some stage.  Sorry bad pun! te he <img src="http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink2.gif" />

Another thing, if divers had been down there, then why didnt they bring him up for Identification, burial, history and medical science then?
"Ye old shipped matey be starving for a good rum by now" lol
I agree 100 percent with you because I agree with your logic....and I am a little afraid of you, :)(Don't Vampires bite?)

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#64    SeaPast

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 06:50 PM

View PostCryptid_Control, on 25 January 2010 - 09:24 PM, said:

Easily the strangest and most macabre story is the tale of Grandpa. The great lakes are very cold in the depths, so cold that the frigid water will preserve almost anything through natural refrigeration. This includes human remains, and the story goes that there is a preserved body in the engine room of the wreck of the SS Kamloops, which went down in 1927. Locals and divers call him Grandpa, and he is known to float quietly behind divers, following them as they swim around the compartment. Perhaps this is just due to currents created by the divers, or maybe its something else, but the effect has scared the daylights out of more than a few divers. All the better, as they probably shouldn't be disturbing a wreck that clearly is also the final resting place of preserved human remains.Link



#65    SeaPast

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:02 PM

Hello folks. I'm trying to add comments to this topic as I may have some information of interest. Unfortunately, I'm quite backwards with computers and this is the first time I've ever posted to any site. It seems some people here are seriously interested in the issue of the bodies on Isle Royale shipwrecks and I might be able to clear up a few misunderstandings. My name is Dan Lenihan and I wrote the book Submerged that was referenced by one of your contributors. I'm going to send this message to see if it shows up and then offer a few observations. thanks, Dan


#66    _Nyx_

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:06 PM

View PostSeaPast, on 02 February 2010 - 07:02 PM, said:

Hello folks. I'm trying to add comments to this topic as I may have some information of interest. Unfortunately, I'm quite backwards with computers and this is the first time I've ever posted to any site. It seems some people here are seriously interested in the issue of the bodies on Isle Royale shipwrecks and I might be able to clear up a few misunderstandings. My name is Dan Lenihan and I wrote the book Submerged that was referenced by one of your contributors. I'm going to send this message to see if it shows up and then offer a few observations. thanks, Dan

So far so good!  Can't wait to read what you've got :)


#67    SeaPast

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:46 PM

My team (SCRU--know called SRC--Submerged Resources Center of the National Park Service) worked on the ships of Isle Royale from 1980 to 1986. I retired earlier this year but SRC has started doing some work there again in the past few years, though I don't think they have been on the Kamloops yet.  First, there is no question that the bodies (plural) are there. On contributor accurately mentioned that I made reference to the body in question on the Kamloops in Submerged but misremembered me saying that we removed the bodies--we didn't. There were questions as to why the NPS did not remove the bodies for dignified burial. This is a decision to be made by the park Superintendent, not the SRC, but SRC or SCRU as we were known, does all their work in close communication with park superintendents and chief rangers. I don't know the present thinking on this at the park but I can say that back when we faced the problem, there were a host of issues that were being confronted. I remember discussing this at length with the park manager and and protection staff (law enforcement rangers). We also discussed the issue with a number of very active Great Lakes sport divers who were very helpful to us in both the diving and getting a sense of the communty's concern about things such as this. At the time, there was another ship with the same problem but much more accessible to divers. I will just say that was taken care of on an informal basis. There is a bureaucratic nightmare associated with doing anything officially with this sort of problem--i.e. you want to see sensitive, dignified treatment of the deceased but consider Canadian citizens in a U.S. park boundaries and associated state of Michigan laws that come into play. Also, there were very few divers that were affected by the situation--it was a very challenging dive on air (not just because of the depth itself but extreme cold, overhead environment, possible fouling, etc,)Also, though it was true that some very skilled scuba divers in the area were capable even then of more direct action, it would have been very dangerous and questionable that the risks justified the action. I suppose there was also some sense that responsible divers would see their diving there as a privilege and be respectful of this person or any other who was lost at sea. Dealing with this one person doesn't solve the problem of stumbling on others and it shouldn't be necessary to remove everyone just because their location is known. Except for the nature of the remains which are more dramatic here, NPS and other agencies have this occur in other protected areas and sometimes the decision is just made to consider them buried at sea.
I responded here only because you people seem to have an intelligent, responsible discussion going and deserved a few answers. I, in no way, am authorized to speak for the National Park Service officially on this but wanted to assure you also as a private citizen that the agency takes this sort of thing quite seriously-- but dealing with such issues can be a lot more difficult than it appears. hope this is of some help in the discussion. regards,Dan Lenihan


#68    ShadowSot

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:55 PM

usually bodies are recovered, if possible, for a proper burial ceremony on land.
Kinda doubt this story.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
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#69    Fluffybunny

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Posted 02 February 2010 - 08:03 PM

Thank you for the info Dan, that is appreciated.

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#70    lostangel007

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:53 AM

I remember reading a true account of divers exploring a shipwreck, and seeing a ghost looking at them through a window inside the ship. It was in a book about New England Hauntings; I will try and find that piece for you when I am back in Ma. (The book is at my parent's house.) Or if you like, I will try and find the exact title of the book for you.


#71    Golden Hawk

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 05:30 AM

View PostScary For Kids, on 09 February 2008 - 10:24 AM, said:

Actually I did a bit of research on this. Found out that something strange can happen with bodies that are immersed in water for long periods. Layers of fat come to the surface of the skin, forming a chalky/soapy substance that hardens around the outside. Effectively protecting the skin from decomposition. I guess it's like a natural form of mummification.

They are called "soap mummies" and yes they do exist, but not underwater.  I have forgotten the formula of air+water/humidity+body fat, needed to produce such a mummy, but I do know that they are not found underwater.

As for remains staying even partially intact in any of the Great Lakes, sorry, doesn't happen.  One example would be the crew of the great-tanker the "Edmund Fitzgerald".  For years the loss of the great ship was only speculation.  Recent years have shown by dives to the wreck show she had been hit by a wave tall enough to run over decks and
sink her.  None of the men survived, their remains consumed by the lakes smaller creatures and fish or rotted away.  


Edited by Golden Hawk, 03 February 2010 - 05:42 AM.

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#72    Golden Hawk

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 05:35 AM

View PostSeaPast, on 02 February 2010 - 07:02 PM, said:

My name is Dan Lenihan and I wrote the book Submerged that was referenced by one of your contributors. I'm going to send this message to see if it shows up and then offer a few observations. thanks, Dan

Hello Dan and welcome to UM, we're not all weird :blink:  :wacko: , just most of us :w00t:  :lol: .  Your contributions are most welcome :tu:  :yes: .

I have heard of your book, and despite being an avid reader/collecter, have not had the pleasure reading it.


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#73    The_Griffin

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:27 AM

That's awesome Dan that you would join just to shed some light on the matter. Thanks  :tu:


#74    shrewgoddess

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 06:10 PM

View PostGolden Hawk, on 03 February 2010 - 05:30 AM, said:



They are called "soap mummies" and yes they do exist, but not underwater.  I have forgotten the formula of air+water/humidity+body fat, needed to produce such a mummy, but I do know that they are not found underwater.

As for remains staying even partially intact in any of the Great Lakes, sorry, doesn't happen.  One example would be the crew of the great-tanker the "Edmund Fitzgerald".  For years the loss of the great ship was only speculation.  Recent years have shown by dives to the wreck show she had been hit by a wave tall enough to run over decks and
sink her.  None of the men survived, their remains consumed by the lakes smaller creatures and fish or rotted away.  


The process is called saponification.  It happens when there is a great deal of fatty tissue, low levels of decomposition, and high alkaline burial places.  It's not likely a factor in this case, though the extreme cold temperature of the water might but I would not want to be the one to grab the body if there is still evidence of flesh.  There's a phenomenon that funeral directors and others of that same ilk describe as "slipping" (if I remember the term correctly) which is very common on floaters, as they call them.


#75    papafish

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 09:40 PM

The wreck of the Kamloops was discovered in 1977 by diver Ken Englebrecht(sic?), from Minnesota I think. I have seen the body in question. It is the remains of the chief engineer, whose name I can't remember. When I saw him in the early 80's, he was intact, with head and hands on. He was on the catwalk next to the high pressure cylinders. His wedding ring (which was shown to me) is in the possession of an Illinois diver. It is a plain gold band. The skipper, William Brian's remains are in the Texas (room below the pilothouse). I've seen this (240'). Also, the remains of a stewardess lie curled up on the shelter deck. The remains of the first mate were found frozen stiff, sitting on a log on shore on the spring of 1928. He had a lifesaver candy in his hands( shipment of same found in the cargo hold- the candy dissolved allthat remains are the paper tubes!) Many artifacts floating around illegally. Hope this clears up questions. At one time I had volumes of info on the Kamloops, and have made many dives to her.





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