12978 replies to this topic

[Saru]

Can we focus on the actual topic being discussed and not on attacking other members ?

To be honest i'm getting tired of having to come in to this thread and ask people to stop bickering, after 864 pages all that seems to be happening is the same arguments being presented and disputed over and over with the same people becoming more and more hostile each time. There's also the "believer vs non-believer" rivalry type mentality that isn't doing the topic any favours, we're here to discuss, not discredit those with an opposing viewpoint.

Unless we see some serious improvements here I can't see this thread lasting much longer.

Why don't we start by returning to the core subject line of the discussion:

What is the best evidence for aliens on Earth ?

[psyche101]

skyeagle409 on May 19 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

Perhaps, you should do some homework before commenting. Nothing to do with Scully.

I am afraid it does mention Frank Scully as a reference, first page, last paragraph second line. The reference continues to the second page.

Funny you should somehow have missed that, I take it you must have due to the above comment.  Did you read the memo?

Frank Scully and Donald Keyhoe. Both UFO fictional writers. They even say Scully claims the US government have a saucer in their possession. The memorandum is a note from some zealous believer trying to raise funding for UFO research. I do not see this as proof of anything more than the author had some rather grandiose plans and wanted answers to the questions we are still asking today?

Edited by psyche101, 19 May 2009 - 10:28 PM.

[psyche101]

skyeagle409 on May 19 2009, 11:05 PM, said:

Considering that it was convincing enough for the Belgian Air Force to present it to the whole world, just goes to show that you should have done some homework!

I guess some people are easily pleased. I find it somewhat astounding you would trash the AF reports, yet stand in the defense of that brief. The USAF reports on the Roswell Incident are far superior in content and presentation. That seems rather hypocritical?

skyeagle409 on May 19 2009, 11:05 PM, said:

That's right! And, the data ties in nicely with that radar imagery.

I do not remember seeing radar imagery for the Belgian triangle photographed, I do remember asking for it many, many times though. I do not remember seeing imagery for any Belgian incident now that you mention it. If you have indeed posted such I appear to haver missed it, would you be so kind as to offer a link to where you have offered this information.

[thefinalfrontier]

Saru on May 19 2009, 05:40 PM, said:

What is the best evidence for aliens on Earth ?

That would be tons of trace evidence along with thousands of eyewitnesses and some fairly good videos of the phenomena, BUT, The compelling exibit A (spaceship or Alien) is elusive and I think we all hope it shows up one day, At least i do anyways, We all know the ufo phenomena is real and something is going on in our atmosphere but what that something is has yet to be figured out by some while others MAY already know,,

Awaiting the compelling exibit A    

Regards;

TFF

[skyeagle409]

psyche101 on May 19 2009, 11:25 PM, said:

I am afraid it does mention Frank Scully as a reference, first page, last paragraph second line. The reference continues to the second page.

Funny you should somehow have missed that, I take it you must have due to the above comment. Did you read the memo?

Got it right here! And, as I've stated before, it doens't matter who reports the facts, just as long as it is accurate.


MEMORANDUM TO THE CONTROLLER OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS:
        --------------------------------------------------

                     For the past several years we have been engaged in
        the study of various aspects of radio wave propagation.  The
        vagaries of this phenomenon have led us into the fields of aurora,
        cosmic radiation, atmospheric radio-activity and geo-magnetism.
        In the case of geo-magnetics our investigations have contributed
        little to our knowledge of radio wave propagation as yet, but
        nevertheless have indicated several avenues of investigation which
        may well be explored with profit.  For example, we are on the
        track of a means whereby the potential energy of the earth's
        magnetic field may be abstracted and used.

             On the basis of theoretical considerations a small
        and very crude experimental unit was constructed approximately a
        year ago and tested in our Standards Laboratory.  The tests were
        essentially successful in that sufficient energy was abstracted
        from the earth's field to operate a voltmeter, approximately 50
        milliwatts.  Although this unit was far from being self-sustaining,
        it nevertheless demonstrated the soundness of the basic principles
        in a qualitative manner and provided useful data for the design of
        a better unit.

             The design has now been completed for a unit which
        should be self-sustaining and in addition provide a small surplus
        of power.  Such a unit, in addition to functioning as a 'pilot
        power plant' should be large enough to permit the study of the
        various reaction forces which are expected to develop.

             We believe that we are on the track of something
        which may well prove to be the introduction to a new technology.
        The existence of a different technology is borne out by the
        investigations which are being carried on at the present time in
        relation to flying saucers.

            While in Washington attending the NARB Conference,
        two books were released one titled "Behind the Flying Saucer" by
        Frank Scully, and the other "The Flying Saucers are Real" by
        Donald Keyhoe.  Both books dealt mostly with the sightings of
        unidentified objects and both books claim that flying objects
        were of extra-terrestrial origin and might well be space ships



                                             ......  2






        from another planet.  Scully claimed that the preliminary studies
        of one saucer which fell into the hands of the United States
        Government indicated that they operated on some hitherto unknown
        magnetic principles.  It appeared to me that our own work in geo-
        magnetics might well be the linkage between our technology and the
        technology by which the saucers are designed and operated.  If it
        is assumed that our geo-magnetic investigations are in the right
        direction, the theory of operation of the saucers becomes quite
        straightforward, with all observed features explained qualitatively
        and quantitatively.

            I made discreet enquiries through the Canadian Embassy
        staff in Washington who were able to obtain for me the following
        information:

        a.  The matter is the most highly classified subject in the United
            States Government, rating higher even than the H-bomb.

        b.  Flying saucers exist.

        c.  Their modus operandi is unknown but concentrated effort is
            being made by a small group headed by Doctor Vannevar Bush.

        d.  The entire matter is considered by the United States authorities
            to be of tremendous significance.


        I was further informed that the United States authorities are
        investigating along quite a number of lines which might possibly
        be related to the saucers such as mental phenomena and I gather
        that they are not doing too well since they indicated that if
        Canada is doing anything at all in geo-magnetics they would welcome
        a discussion with suitably accredited Canadians.

                    While I am not yet in a position to say that we have
        solved even the first problems in geo-magnetic energy release, I
        feel that the correlation between our basic theory and the available
        information on saucers checks too closely to be mere coincidence.
        It is my honest opinion that we are on the right track and are
        fairly close to at least some of the answers.

            Mr. Wright, Defence Research Board liaison officer at
        the Canadian Embassy in Washington, was extremely anxious for me to
        get in touch with Doctor Solandt, Chairman of the Defence Research
        Board, to discuss with him future investigations along the line
        of geo-magnetic energy release.



                                                       .......  3





        I do not feel that we have as yet sufficient data to place before
        Defence Research Board which would enable a program to be initiated
        within that organization, but I do feel that further research is
        necessary and I would prefer to see it done within the frame work
        of our own organization with, of course, full co-operation and
        exchange of information with other interested bodies.

                    I discussed this matter fully with Doctor Solandt,
        Chairman of Defence Research Board, on November 20th and placed
        before him as much information as I have been able to gather to
        date.  Doctor Solandt agreed that work on geo-magnetic energy should
        go forward as rapidly as possible and offered full co-operation of
        his Board in providing laboratory facilities.  Acquisition of
        necessary items of equipment, and specialized personnel for
        incidental work in the project.  I indicated to Doctor Solandt that
        we would prefer to keep the project within the Department of
        Transport for the time being until we have obtained sufficient
        information to permit a complete assessment of the value of the
        work.

                    It is therefore recommended that a PROJECT be set up
        within the frame work of this Section to study this problem and
        that the work be carried on a part time basis until such time as
        sufficient tangible results can be seen to warrant more definitive
        action.  Cost of the program in its initial stages are expected to
        be less than a few hundred dollars and can be carried by our Radio
        Standards Lab appropriation.

                    Attached hereto is a draft of terms of reference for
        such a project which, if authorized, will enable us to proceed with
        this research work within our own organization.


                                   (signed)  W B  S M I T H

                                              (W.B. Smith)
                                         Senior Radio Engineer


       WBS/CC

[skyeagle409]

psyche101 on May 19 2009, 11:33 PM, said:

I guess some people are easily pleased. I find it somewhat astounding you would trash the AF reports, yet stand in the defense of that brief.

It was obvious from the very start the Air Force Roswell reports were jokes!

Quote

The USAF reports on the Roswell Incident are far superior in content and presentation.

Lucky I wasn't drinking coffee when I read that, otherwise, my keyboard would have been soaked. The Air Force was so sloppy that they forgot that Project Mogul balloons and their experiments were revealed in newspapers around the country in 1947 and they should have known that Project Mogul balloons were not classified nor what there were no such thing as Project Mogul balloon flight #4, which researchers have now determined as well.

Its 1997 Roswell report was so laughable, that not many people took it seriously, and even the Air Force officer who supplied material for that 1997 Roswell report has slammed the Air Force for false reporting and look what you posted!

Quote

I do not remember seeing radar imagery for the Belgian triangle photographed, I do remember asking for it many, many times though.

You do not have the knowledge to understand anything pertaining to radar data. That was evident from your comments about pulse-doppler radar and hovering objects.

Edited by skyeagle409, 20 May 2009 - 05:10 AM.

[skyeagle409]

Hazzard on May 19 2009, 06:57 PM, said:

Could there be an ET cover-up by the US, or some other country... I guess so. Do I believe there is one, no I dont.

I do, and rightly so! There are very good reasons as to why!

[skyeagle409]

psyche101 on May 19 2009, 11:25 PM, said:

I am afraid it does mention Frank Scully as a reference, first page, last paragraph second line. The reference continues to the second page.

What difference does that make? That is not his memo anyway.

Quote

Frank Scully and Donald Keyhoe. Both UFO fictional writers.

Now, that is very funny considering they didn't write that memo!

Edited by skyeagle409, 20 May 2009 - 05:08 AM.

[Hazzard]

karl 12 on May 19 2009, 06:48 PM, said:

Heres a handy list so you can brush up on some of your techniques:

http://www.bibleufo.com/debunk.htm

  Good one, karl.


And here is a list for you... not that you need to brush up on any of them.  

http://www.insolitology.com/tests/credo.htm

[psyche101]

skyeagle409 on May 20 2009, 02:46 PM, said:

Got it right here! And, as I've stated before, it doens't matter who reports the facts, just as long as it is accurate.


            While in Washington attending the NARB Conference,
        two books were released one titled "Behind the Flying Saucer" by
        Frank Scully, and the other "The Flying Saucers are Real" by
        Donald Keyhoe.  Both books dealt mostly with the sightings of
        unidentified objects and both books claim that flying objects
        were of extra-terrestrial origin and might well be space ships



                                             ......  2






        from another planet.  Scully claimed that the preliminary studies
        of one saucer which fell into the hands of the United States
        Government indicated that they operated on some hitherto unknown
        magnetic principles.  It appeared to me that our own work in geo-
        magnetics might well be the linkage between our technology and the
        technology by which the saucers are designed and operated.  If it
        is assumed that our geo-magnetic investigations are in the right
        direction, the theory of operation of the saucers becomes quite
        straightforward, with all observed features explained qualitatively
        and quantitatively.

Yes that is it, and it references Scully right where I said it did. They know no more than you or I.

[Hazzard]

skyeagle409 on May 20 2009, 05:06 AM, said:

I do, and rightly so! There are very good reasons as to why!

I know that you think that SETI is a waste of time.

But, why is it that if ALL these UFOs are alien crafts, and you claim to even know what propulsion system they use... how come we havent picked up any of their comunications? Ship-ship com...or ship-homeplanet com...

Part from the WOW signal, if that was ET, why havent we picked up something?

Dont you know what form of com tech they use?

Edited by Hazzard, 20 May 2009 - 05:44 AM.

[skyeagle409]

psyche101 on May 20 2009, 06:32 AM, said:

Yes that is it, and it references Scully right where I said it did. They know no more than you or I.

Once again, the giggle factor takes effect because Scully had nothing to do with writing that memo!

Try again!!

Edited by skyeagle409, 20 May 2009 - 05:45 AM.

[psyche101]

skyeagle409 on May 20 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

It was obvious from the very start the Air Force Roswell reports were jokes!



Lucky I wasn't drinking coffee when I read that, otherwise, my keyboard would have been soaked. The Air Force was so sloppy that they forgot that Project Mogul balloons and their experiments were revealed in newspapers around the country in 1947 and they should have known that Project Mogul balloons were not classified nor what there were no such thing as Project Mogul balloon flight #4, which researchers have now determined as well.

Its 1997 Roswell report was so laughable, that not many people took it seriously, and even the Air Force officer who supplied material for that 1997 Roswell report has slammed the Air Force for false reporting and look what you posted!

Trust me, you don't need coffee.

See, you support a brief that provides suppositions and conclusions against full documents with complete documentation as to how results were arrived at for the whole world, including yourself to pick over. What did the Belgin report provide, ohh that's right, small enough to fit into a single post, yet neither Roswell report will even fit as an attachment due to the bulk of the presentation.

And you say you are not biased? Considering this choice of documentation I don't know how even you can see it any other way

skyeagle409 on May 20 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

You do not have the knowledge to understand anything pertaining to radar data. That was evident from your comments about pulse-doppler radar and hovering objects.

I am afraid I have proven the exact opposite, I have provided explanations, diagrams and reasoning whereas all you have provided me is your assurances that your knowledge is superior. That just does not cut the mustard. It is a joke. This amounts to the best information you can muster concerning Pulse-Doppler Radar. A pathetic insult. Goody for you. How about the imagery showing the photographed triangle hovered?

[psyche101]

skyeagle409 on May 20 2009, 03:44 PM, said:

Once again, the giggle factor takes effect because Scully had nothing to do with writing that memo!

Try again!!

I beg your pardon?

Please re-read every post I have made concerning the subject, where did I say Scully wrote, or contributed to the memo? I said

Quote

it references Scully

Which is a poor choice of reference in my opinion. I think a memo trying to raise funding for a research project that references science fiction writers is laughable.

Have you sought help from a family member about the reading thing yet? Perhaps you should try again.

Edited by psyche101, 20 May 2009 - 05:54 AM.

[skyeagle409]

Hazzard on May 20 2009, 06:40 AM, said:

I know that you think that SETI is a waste of time.

It is, and as I have noted before, even Frank Drake admitted that he could be part of a cover-up and said so right on TV during this interview.

Quote

But, why is it that if ALL these UFOs are alien crafts, and you claim to even know what propulsion system they use...

I think that even the Boeing Co. knows as well.

Boeing tries to defy gravity

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2157975.stm

And besides, a research boat was once powered by an electromagnetic propulson system that worked.

Quote

how come we havent picked up any of their comunications? Ship-ship com...or ship-homeplanet com...

What makes you think that our miitary forces hasn't?