Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * - - 30 votes

The best evidence for aliens on Earth


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
12978 replies to this topic

#31    Cronus

Cronus

    Apparition

  • Banned
  • PipPip
  • 317 posts
  • Joined:09 Jul 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 08:54 PM

badeskov on Feb 9 2008, 02:55 PM, said:

You wouldn't be a believer, you would know!

Cheers,
Badeskov


Very well said badeskov, it only takes a few possible theories to become a believer.

"The void is that which stands right in the middle of "this" and "that" the void is all-inclusive, having no opposite, there is nothing which it excludes or opposes, it is living void because all forms come out of it and whoever realizes the void, is filled with life and power and the love of all things."


#32    Cronus

Cronus

    Apparition

  • Banned
  • PipPip
  • 317 posts
  • Joined:09 Jul 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 08:55 PM

badeskov on Feb 9 2008, 02:55 PM, said:

You wouldn't be a believer, you would know!

Cheers,
Badeskov


Very well said badeskov, it only takes a few possible theories to become a believer, After all it's the "crazy" people that don't go by the rules and believe in what they do and achieve goals, if it was for skeptics thinking only logical possibilities could cause this universe's enigmas then we would be as dumb as the people 1000 years ago.. oh well..

"The void is that which stands right in the middle of "this" and "that" the void is all-inclusive, having no opposite, there is nothing which it excludes or opposes, it is living void because all forms come out of it and whoever realizes the void, is filled with life and power and the love of all things."


#33    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 32,462 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 09:12 PM

badeskov on Feb 9 2008, 09:14 PM, said:

Indeed, sometimes we hear quite some amusing stories on what it could be. I really don't want to hijack Haz's thread, but please allow me to quote a few paragraphs from one of the Hessdalen reports:

pp. 1.



pp. 2


Sounds familiar?

pp. 3


Again, sounds familiar?

pp. 3.


Here we have something that is intensely luminous, provides a strong radar signature, can move fast and highly erratically (seeming intelligently), reacting to outside stimuli (in this case a laser beam). This is why I can simply not take a report from 1968 as being relevant, as it reflects what they knew at the time about atmospheric events, and recent science very obviously contradicts what was stated then.

This is why we need the irrefutable evidence, as otherwise we simply do not know. We can speculate, but that is all we can currently do.


But, that has nothing to do with any of the UFO case files in question, such as:

linked-image

And

http://www.ufocasebook.com/jal1628surfaces.html

Edited by skyeagle409, 09 February 2008 - 09:13 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#34    Cronus

Cronus

    Apparition

  • Banned
  • PipPip
  • 317 posts
  • Joined:09 Jul 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 09:23 PM

skyeagle409 on Feb 9 2008, 04:12 PM, said:

But, that has nothing to do with any of the UFO case files in question, such as:

linked-image

And

http://www.ufocasebook.com/jal1628surfaces.html


Skyeagle that looks like a triangular UFO, and looks pretty nice, Do you think it's real ?

"The void is that which stands right in the middle of "this" and "that" the void is all-inclusive, having no opposite, there is nothing which it excludes or opposes, it is living void because all forms come out of it and whoever realizes the void, is filled with life and power and the love of all things."


#35    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 32,462 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 09:31 PM

Cronus on Feb 9 2008, 09:55 PM, said:

Very well said badeskov, it only takes a few possible theories to become a believer, After all it's the "crazy" people that don't go by the rules and believe in what they do and achieve goals, if it was for skeptics thinking only logical possibilities could cause this universe's enigmas then we would be as dumb as the people 1000 years ago.. oh well..


You must be refering to past comments made by skeptics. Here are some examples of past quotes of skeptics.

Quote


*  The atomic bomb will never work. (It idid).

* The idea of heavier-than-air flight is pure fantasy. (I will remember that the next time I fly).

* The idea of rocks falling from the skies is ludicous. (The falliing rocks are now known as meteors).

* It is silly to think that the "man-beast" of Africa exist. Early 1800's. (The 'man-beast' of Africa is known today as the gorilla).

* Radio has no future. - Lord Kelvin (1824-1907), British mathematician and physicist, ca. 1897.

*  Animals, which move, have limbs and muscles. The earth does not have limbs and muscles; therefore it does not move.

* Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value. - Marshal Ferdinand Foch, French military strategist, 1911. He was later a World War I commander

* This foolish idea of shooting at the moon is an example of the absurd length to which vicious specialization will carry scientists working in thought-tight compartments. Let us critically examine the proposal. For a projectile entirely to escape the gravitation of earth, it needs a velocity of 7 miles a second. The thermal energy of a gramme at this speed is 15,180 calories... The energy of our most violent explosive--nitroglycerine--is less than 1,500 calories per gramme. Consequently, even had the explosive nothing to carry, it has only one-tenth of the energy necessary to escape the earth... Hence the proposition appears to be basically impossible.
- W. A. Bickerton, Professor of Physics and Chemistry at Canterbury College (Christchurch, New Zealand), 1926.

* There is not in sight any source of energy that would be a fair start toward that which would be necessary to get us beyond the gravitative control of the earth.
- Forest Ray Moulton (1872-1952), astronomer, 1935.

* Computers in the future may...perhaps only weigh 1.5 tons.
- Popular Mechanics, 1949.

* If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done.
- Peter Ustinov


KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#36    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 32,462 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 09:39 PM

Cronus on Feb 9 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

Skyeagle that looks like a triangular UFO, and looks pretty nice, Do you think it's real ?


It underwent a multitude of anaylysis. Similar objects were also reported around the globe.


KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#37    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 11,787 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 10:01 PM

skyeagle409 on Feb 9 2008, 01:12 PM, said:

But, that has nothing to do with any of the UFO case files in question, such as:

linked-image


Indeed, it has nothing to do with the above picture. It just invalidates all radar data as evidence as we know that luminous atmospheric events can do what many UFOs do, thus leading credence to that those UFOs are naturally occurring phenomena rather than ET flitting around.    

Quote



So, they saw something, we just don't know what it was. To quote from the link:

Quote

What to make of this? It's tempting to say Terauchi's imagination got the better of him; but he's an ex-fighter pilot with more than 10,000 flying hours under his belt. He would know, if anyone would, how to keep his imagination in check. Another theory Shukan Shincho hears is that the lights the pilot saw were from Jupiter and Mars, which in fact would have been visible on the jumbo's flight path on the night in question. It's possible, but again – would a man with Terauchi's experience and training be so easily fooled?


Yes, they could. You like to quote Hynek before he changed his opinions on the matter. I will take grab some of his data from his "The Hynek UFO Report". Here he basically finds that the best eye witnesses have ~50% hit rate in correct identifying things, whereas pilots only have a little more than 10% hit rate in correct identifying objects. The latter are so highly trained that they invariably will try and put things they see in their frame of reference. Thus, pilots as eye witnesses aren't actually that good.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited for typo.

Edited by badeskov, 09 February 2008 - 10:02 PM.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#38    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 32,462 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 10:36 PM

badeskov on Feb 9 2008, 11:01 PM, said:

Indeed, it has nothing to do with the above picture.


I know!

Quote

It just invalidates all radar data as evidence as we know that luminous atmospheric events can do what many UFOs do, thus leading credence to that those UFOs are naturally occurring phenomena rather than ET flitting around.


Actually, it doesn't invalidate any radar data. This is independent of the radar data that was provided by the Air Force.    

Quote

So, they saw something, we just don't know what it was. To quote from the link:

QUOTE
What to make of this? It's tempting to say Terauchi's imagination got the better of him; but he's an ex-fighter pilot with more than 10,000 flying hours under his belt. He would know, if anyone would, how to keep his imagination in check. Another theory Shukan Shincho hears is that the lights the pilot saw were from Jupiter and Mars, which in fact would have been visible on the jumbo's flight path on the night in question. It's possible, but again – would a man with Terauchi's experience and training be so easily fooled?


In regards to the planets, Mars and Jupiter, the planets were not even in the same patch of sky as the UFOs and, the UFOs were also captured on radar, which should have been a very clear indication that the UFOs had nothing to do with planets.

Debunker Phil Klass and CSICOP made the fatal mistake of going public before the results were in, that the UFOs were Mars and Jupiter. When the data came flowing in, Phil Klass and CSICOP changed their explanations from Jupiter and Mars, to ice clouds, but when conditions were examined, it was found that ice clouds were not responsible either.

Quote



Skeptic's Missteps On JAL Flight 1628

The FAA conducted an investigation of the incident, and did not issue its final report until March 5.

CSICOP's (Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal)Phil Klass issued a premature statement on January 22 claiming that the UFOs were the planets Jupiter and Mars - an impossible solution because the UFO was seen in a part of the sky opposite the position of these planets and because the UFOs moved from positions one above the other to side by side. CSICOP later issued a second explanation that the UFO was light reflecting off of clouds of ice crystals - also unlikely because the sky was clear at the reported altitude of the UFO. The FAA attributed the radar images received by ground radar to a "split radar return from the JAL Boeing 747."


Data and communications tapes were later flown to Washington D.C. for analysis. Conclusions supported the reports of the JAL aircrew of UFOs maneuvering around their aircraft, and confirmed that one of the UFOs was gigantic.

Edited by skyeagle409, 09 February 2008 - 10:48 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#39    Cronus

Cronus

    Apparition

  • Banned
  • PipPip
  • 317 posts
  • Joined:09 Jul 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 10:41 PM

skyeagle409 on Feb 9 2008, 04:39 PM, said:

It underwent a multitude of anaylysis. Similar objects were also reported around the globe.


similar UFO's at the same time ?

"The void is that which stands right in the middle of "this" and "that" the void is all-inclusive, having no opposite, there is nothing which it excludes or opposes, it is living void because all forms come out of it and whoever realizes the void, is filled with life and power and the love of all things."


#40    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 11,787 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 10:54 PM

skyeagle409 on Feb 9 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

Actually, it doesn't invalidate any radar data. This is independent of the radar data that was provided by the Air Force.


In which sense? We have a naturally occurring phenomena that exhibits the same characteristics as many UFOs. Thus, any radar data showing such characteristics cannot in any way be evidence of ET.

Quote

In regards to the planets, Mars and Jupiter, the planets were not even in the same patch of sky as the UFOs and, the UFOs were also captured on radar, which should have been a very clear indication that the UFOs had nothing to do with planets.

Debunker Phil Klass and CSICOP made the fatal mistake of going public before the results were in, that the UFOs were Mars and Jupiter. When the data came flowing in, Phil Klass and CSICOP changed their explanations from Jupiter and Mars, to ice clouds, but when conditions were examined, it was found that ice clouds were not responsible either.

Data and communications tapes were later flown to Washington D.C. for analysis. Conclusions supported the reports of the JAL aircrew of UFOs maneuvering around their aircraft, and confirmed that one of the UFOs was gigantic.


Sure, but a wrong explanation doesn't make the sighting any more credible in itself. They saw something, they just don't know what. It is a UFO, no more, no less, and pinning other labels on it is pure speculation. You can say ET and I can say atmospheric something. Either way, we simply do not know.

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#41    badeskov

badeskov

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 11,787 posts
  • Joined:27 Aug 2006

Posted 09 February 2008 - 11:50 PM

Just on a side note, I wanted to quote from this article in New Scientist called "And the voice said..." from 1999. It is a funny read.

Quote

It involved a clandestine military project with a goal so outrageous that, even now, it is difficult to comprehend. The story was set in the late 1980s, at an undisclosed military research facility hidden in the New Mexico desert. Here, researchers working with high-power laser weapons discovered that they could create a glowing ball of fire in the sky by crossing the beams of two powerful infrared lasers. The beams were invisible to the naked eye, but where they intersected, their electric fields became so intense that they ripped apart molecules in the air, creating a plasma—a luminous mix of high-energy ions and electrons.                                                                                  By moving the laser beams around the sky, the researchers found they could shift the plasma ball back and forth at very high speed. They even discovered that by switching the beams on and off quickly and redirecting them to different spots, they could maintain several plasma balls in the air at the same time. At night, they demonstrated their skills, flying their glowing creations in formation high above the cold desert.


This is only a story and the journalist went on a quest to figure out whether it was actually true; while most scientists he asked were skeptical, the consensus was that it was possible, albeit hard to do.


Cheers,
Badeskov

Edited by badeskov, 09 February 2008 - 11:51 PM.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#42    Mbyte

Mbyte

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 771 posts
  • Joined:06 Mar 2007

Posted 10 February 2008 - 12:43 AM

UFO's in renissaince paintings says it all for me

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."

#43    Lilly

Lilly

    Forum Divinity

  • 17,333 posts
  • Joined:16 Apr 2004

Posted 10 February 2008 - 12:56 AM

Mbyte on Feb 10 2008, 01:43 AM, said:

UFO's in renissaince paintings says it all for me



Yes, UFOs in Renaissance art do indeed 'say it all', but I suspect the 'all' they are saying isn't what you may think. Take a look here. Most of the discussion is in English, I've had some of the rest of it translated (the portion about the UFO coin). After you read this site your opinion may change.

Quote

“Meanwhile the average man had become progressively less able to recognize the subjects or understand the meaning of the works of art of the past. Fewer people had read the classics of Greek and Roman literature, and relatively few people read the Bible with the same diligence that their parents had done. It comes as a shock to an elderly man to find how many biblical references have become completely incomprehensible to the present generation.”

Kenneth Clark
( introduction to"Dictionary of subjects and symbols in Art" by James Hall)




"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

Posted Image

#44    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 32,462 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006

Posted 10 February 2008 - 01:35 AM

badeskov on Feb 10 2008, 12:50 AM, said:

Just on a side note, I wanted to quote from this article in New Scientist called "And the voice said..." from 1999. It is a funny read.

[/font]

This is only a story and the journalist went on a quest to figure out whether it was actually true; while most scientists he asked were skeptical, the consensus was that it was possible, albeit hard to do.


Cheers,
Badeskov


Old spotlights used for advertising by local businesses basically created similar effects at night as they illuminated the base of clouds.


KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#45    skyeagle409

skyeagle409

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 32,462 posts
  • Joined:14 Apr 2006

Posted 10 February 2008 - 02:07 AM

badeskov on Feb 9 2008, 11:54 PM, said:

In which sense? We have a naturally occurring phenomena that exhibits the same characteristics as many UFOs. Thus, any radar data showing such characteristics cannot in any way be evidence of ET.


There are major differences between metallic objects and those of natural phenomena, which is why radar controllers will tell you they can differentiate between the two. Besides, radar have filters because radar operators can't afford to be distracted by natural phenomena clutter on radar scopes when they are controlling a number of air traffic in close proximity of one another in high-density airspace, especially during precision approaches.

Quote

Sure, but a wrong explanation doesn't make the sighting any more credible in itself. They saw something, they just don't know what.


According to the pilot, he encountered a "gigantic spaceship." Weeks later another commercial aircraft and an Air Force tanker encountered the same object as well. In fact, the description made by the military aircrew was simillar to that made by the JAL aircrew, which was described as a "gigantic spaceship." Radar data confirmed that particular UFO was in fact, gigantic and maneuvering around  and trailing the aircraft.

Check out the news broadcast at the latter half of this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3MQ1LtD_Sxg&feature=related

Quote


Pilot Visual Description

"We were just above the bright city lights and we checked the pale white light behind us. Alas! There was a silhouette of a gigantic spaceship.


So in that regard, the UFO was close enough to where the aircrew visually identified the UFO as a "gigantic spaceship."

Quote


ATC Transmission

5:24:50 AARTCC - JAL1628, do you still have, uh, visual contact with the, ah, traffic?

5:24:53 JAL1628 - Affirmative. Also, [4] we [have] radar contact, ah... (unintelligible; broken transmission).

5:25:02 AARTCC - JAL1628 heavy, roger, sir. I'm picking up a hit on the radar approximately five miles in trail of your six o'clock position (i.e., behind the plane). Do you concur?

:39:35 AARTCC - JAL1628 heavy, roger sir. The military radar advises they do have a primary target in trail of you at this time.

5:39:32 JAL1628 - Ah, say again?

5:39:35 AARTCC - JAl1628 heavy. Military radar advises they are picking up intermittent primary target behind you in trail, in trail I say again.


So, here is where not only the FAA confirms the UFO tagging along with the B-747, but the military confirms radar contact of the UFO as well, so it is clearly obvious that particular UFO was NOT Mars nor Jupiter.

Eventually, Phil Klass and CSICOP  found that no planet of any kind were involved either and that natural phenomena played no part as well.

Quote

It is a UFO, no more, no less, and pinning other labels on it is pure speculation. You can say ET and I can say atmospheric something.


But, it has already been confirmed from atmospheric and scientific analysis, including the nature of the radar contracts and aircrew visual accounts, that natural phenomena played no part in this encounter.

You can say, "atmospheric something," but the facts do not agree, nor does Mr. Reality!

Edited by skyeagle409, 10 February 2008 - 03:21 AM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX