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#1    UM-Bot

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 09:46 AM

user posted image rWilliam B Stoecker: For centuries, thousands of people, mostly Catholics, have reported seeing and even speaking with a being they believe to be the Virgin Mary. Curiously, the being almost never clearly states that she is, in fact, the mother of Jesus; the witnesses tend to assume this. Her rather vague pronouncements and advice resemble that given out by "aliens" to ufo abductees. Sometimes the vision is accompanied by lights in the sky resembling ufos. Popes Leo XIII, Pius XII, and John Paul II have reported these visions, but most of the experiencers are ordinary people, often poor rural people, and often children: the same kinds of people who often report ufo abductions. Most, but not all, are in Catholic or at least primarily Christian countries. The Holy See has "confirmed" only a few of these, among them the Virgin of Guadalupe,St. Etienne le Laus, Paris, La Satelli, Lourdes, Fatima, Pontmain, Beauraing, Banneux, and Knock (Ireland). We shall examine Guadalupe, Lourdes, Fatima, and the (non confirmed) Medugorje events.

The Virgin of Guadalupe event took place near Mexico City on Tepeyac Hill from 12/9 through 12/12, 1531. It was reported by an Aztec with the Spanish name Juan Diego, and he stated that the being spoke Nahuatl (the Aztec language) but named herself "de Guadalupe." Supposedly, the Nahuatl words for "one who crushes the serpent" sound like "Guadalupe." Some researchers believe that it may also be significant that the Aztecs worshipped a goddess named "Tonantzin." Supposedly, the Virgin told Juan Diego to convince the Bishop to build a church where she appeared, and he gathered roses out of season on a cloth called a "tulpa" and gave them to Bishop Zumarraga, and an image of the Virgin appeared on the Tulpa. There are a number of problems with all of this. Zumarraga did not even become Bishop until 1533, some two years after the events, and became Archbishop only in 1547, and he never mentioned Juan Diego or the apparition in his writings. Furthermore, the image looks like a rather crude painting, and several art experts, including art restoration expert Jose Sol Rosales claimed to have found typical sixteenth century paint in the image. At this point it appears that the apparition was partly or even entirely fraudulent, although, as we shall see later, the roses may be significant.
    
In 1858 in the French town of Lourdes, on the meridian line and in the foothills of the Pyrenees, a girl named Bernadette Soubiros claimed to have encountered a "Lady" who referred to herself as the "Immaculate Concepcion" some eighteen times from 2/11/1858 through 7/16/1858. No one else saw or heard her. The sightings reportedly took place in a shallow grotto on a rock outcrop called Massabiele. A spring then issued from the site, and the other villagers, although they did not see the Lady, did report the sudden appearance of the spring. Lourdes, confirmed by the Vatican, became a popular (and profitable) shrine where thousands of people reported miraculous healings. The Lourdes Bureau claims to certified sixty of these as unexplained. Note that springs and wells are important in ancient Celtic, or Druid, mythology.
    
From 5/13/1917 through 10/13/17 three Portuguese children from rather poor families, Lucia Santos, Jacinta Marto, and Francisco Marto reported seeing a lady who called herself "Our Lady of the Rosary." Note the rose connection again, and note that the rosary was especially associated with the Virgin Mary, but, again, the being never clearly stated that she was, in fact, the mother of Jesus. They claimed to see her on the thirteenth of every month (a magic number, especially for the Masons) except in August, when they were briefly imprisoned (and threatened with torture) by the provincial administrator who represented an extremely anti clerical government heavily dominated by Masons. That month they saw her in the town of Valinhos on 8/19. On her last appearance, again at Valinhos, on 1013, some 70,000 people gathered to witness the event, and while no one but the children claimed to see "Our Lady," hundreds of people, as well as many in towns some miles away, reported that the "sun"change colors, spin, and zig zag, accompanied by an unusual amount of heat on what had been a cool, overcast day.  This is a little hard to explain away as a hoax or "mass hallucination."
    
The being told the children to say the rosary daily and do penance, so they wrapped tight cords around their wrists and went without water on hot days. She also gave them three visions: a vision of a fairly conventional Christian version of a fiery hell, a prediction of a second terrible war (World War One was then raging in Europe and eleswhere) if Russia did not become Christian (the Soviets were just then taking power) , and the third vision, a secret. The second war would supposedly be heralded by a strange light or glow in the sky. The being asked that the mysterious third secret be revealed in 1960, but the Vatican refused to allow it. Meanwhile, Lucia Santos became a Dorothean and later a Carmelite nun, and claimed to see the being again, in 1925, 1929, and later. She even claimed to see Jesus once. When she died on 2/13/2005 (note the date was the thirteenth) Cardina Ratzinger, who is now the Pope, ordered her cell to be sealed shut. Clearly, he was hiding something, and earlier, in11/84, he had stated that the third secret was merely a call to conversion. Then the Church changed its story and announced that the third secret was a prediction of the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II. But Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite claims that it was actually a warning of satanism in the Vatican. Clearly, if so, the Vatican would have a motive to lie about it, and space does not permit a discussion here of the evidence of corruption and even satanism in the Church hierarchy, but that evidence is extensive.
    
On 6/24/81 six teenagers in Medugorje, Bosnia, claimed to see a white form carrying a child. "Our Lady" said people must accept Jesus, and supposedly made certain prophecies, but these have not been revealed, save that a sign would appear on the site just for atheists. The meaning of this is far from clear.Psychologists reportedly found no evidence of mental illness or hypnosis of the teenagers; if this is true, it may or may not be significant. It also may be significant that the local parish was run by the Franciscans, then in a state of near rebellion against the Vatican.
    
So we are left with uncertainties. It is interesting that many elements of Christianity seem to be of pagan origin, perhaps introduced by the Romans under Emperor Constantine to make the relgion "sell." The Virgin has always had a suspicious resemblance to the Roman goddess Diana, called Artemis by the Greeks, who is believed by archaeologists to be perhaps the oldest goddess in the world (by that I mean that she has been worshipped for a long time, whether such a being exists or not). The goddess' many forms and functions, over time, were divided  among several goddesses, like Aphrodite and Athena as wll as Artemis. Aphrodite was associated with Venus, the consort of the supposedly male sun, and, as I have described elswhere, Earth and Venus in their orbits trace out a regular pentagram in the sky, and this powerful astrological symbol is also associated with the regular five-petaled wild rose. The Virgin Mary was sometimes referred to as the "Rose of Sharon," and St. Bernard of Clairvaux, who was closely involved with the Templars, called the Virgin Mary the "mystical rose." His Templars would later build gothic cathedrals with rose windows (although they were not called that until the seventeenth century) and these often depicted in stained glass Mary and Jesus. The word "rosary" comes from "rosarium," Latin for rose garden. And the term "sub rosa," meaning "under the rose," means in secrecy. So is there some great secret to the Marian apparitions, and some connection with the goddess and perhaps with ufos? The evidence at this point is inconclusive, and I fear we are left with yet another mystery. But what fun would life be without mystery?   William B Stoecker
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#2    IronGhost

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 03:23 PM

Very interesting.  A couple of popular writers -- such as famed UFO investigator Jacque Vallee -- have made the case that apparitions of Mary are strongly related to the UFO issue.  Vallee suggests that use of the Virgin archetype could be alien manipulation of the human race, implanting religious ideas in the masses for some unknown purpose of the aliens.

Graham Hancock in his recent book, "Supernatural" discusses the Virgin apparitions at Lourdes in depth, and also suggests a fairy-alien-UFO connection.

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#3    Mbyte

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 05:39 PM

Hey you didn't mention the mary sighting in Ireland. It happened in a place called knock

Edited by Mbyte, 15 February 2008 - 05:40 PM.

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#4    HollyDolly

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 08:00 PM

w00t.gif The author mentioned La Satelli,when I believe he meant la Salette in France.
He also neglected to mention the  appearence of Our Lady at Zeution in Egypt back in the 1960s or so,when Nassar was president of Egypt. You can check this out on the web,and I believe Nassar traveled to the area and saw with his own eyes this apparition. The Virgin Mary did not speak to the crowd,but walked around the dome of the Church of St.Mary with her hands in prayer. She was seen by people of various faiths, Christians,Muslims,etc.There are photos on the net of this apparition.
Also in Knock,Ireland one Saturday or Sunday,a crowd of villagers saw,The Virgin Mary,St.Joseph,St.John the Baptist?
standing  next to an altar with I believe a lamb on it,refering to Jesus,as the Lamb of God and his sacrifice on the Cross for our sins and redemption. The figures were seen moving around the altar and praying,but there was no message to any member of the crowd,unlike Lourdes,Fatima,etc.
Also, there are not many mentions of Marian apparitions amongst the Orthodox and Coptic faiths.There maybe a few,but nothing like the Catholics.

#5    The_Spartan

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 04:34 AM

I knew it!! Jesus is an Alien!!
"Wise men, when in doubt whether to speak or to keep quiet, give themselves the benefit of the doubt, and remain silent.-Napoleon Hill

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#6    Blytheviatrix

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 08:23 PM

yes.gif

Excellent article!  I've been mystified by the Marian apparitions for some time now.

There various intriguing elements within all the apparitions.  The Lady never claims she is the Mother of Jesus,  but instead very subtly guides the matter of her identity, almost always allowing the believer to insinuate the connection.  Another issue which has blatantly been ignored by the Church, is the issue of the first accepted Marian apparition. According to the Vatican, the first accepted sighting of Mary was in 40AD (when, according to the Holy See) she was still alive.  She appeared to James the Greater in Saragossa, Spain.  She gave him a wood jasper (actually a crystal used in ancient times to ward off evil spirits) an image of herself and then asked that a church be built in her honor.  This apparition is called the Lady of the Pillar.

Upon further research, we find that the apparition almost always requests that a church or a shrine be erected upon the spot in her memory and, most notably, in her honor.  The question, for me at least, from a historical and theological standpoint is: why would the Virgin Mary ask anyone to have a church built in her honor? Would it not be more appropriate to ask that a church in God's name be erected?  I find this point most interesting and telling.

Then there is the apparition's introduction of "religious" items.  She has handed out or asked for many items that upon first inspection seem to be harmless, but upon a second and closer inspection are full of significance.  

Mr. Stoecker correctly mentioned the significance of water for the Celtic peoples, most notably the Druids.  Also, he mentions the use of the rosary and its connations.  The rosary itself may have its origin in the prayer beads used in the Middle East.  The very first mention we have of anything resembling a rosary (as they are today) is at the reading of the will of Lady Godiva of Coventry (ca. 1075 AD).  She apparently had had a gold chain with several precious stones linked to it and she was often seen using it during her daily prayers.  (Malmesbury, "Gesta Pont.", Rolls Series 311).   Yet paintings of the times show military orders such as the Templars and Hospitallers using something that suspiciously look like prayer beads (see the work of Caoursin).

The trees and bushes that the apparition chooses to stand on or float above are also of interest.  In Vietnam, the Lady of Lavang stood aside and above a banyan tree which is associated with immortality.  There are apparitions associated with elms and willows, all of which have a very strong Celtic and Druidic tradition.

The apparition also asks for medals to be struck and worn as protection and shields.  The use of the scapular is another tradition introduced to the masses by the apparition.  Medals and scapulars (not just made from cloth, but from metals and paper) are significant because these are all found in ancient cultures and associated with magical aspects and powers.  The symbology of the metals used in medals is also significant, with silver always being the metal of choice for the Lady.  Silver has usually been associated with Goddess worship from ancient times.  Silver is also associated with the Moon.  The Moon is associated with the Lady.

The colors that the apparition wears are also worthy of note. Even the length of the apparel is also of significance. The apparition usually dons blue and white apparel, sometimes red.  Gold and green are rare.  The robes are always long.  I do not think she has ever been seen in black, brown or gray.

Especially significant  is that the apparition is almost always associated with some sort of natural phenomenom or display.  In Lourdes it was the miraculous well; in Fatima, the spinning sun.  In Rome it was snow (Our Lady of the Snows, where the basilica Sta Maria Maggiore was built). Though I've only used a few examples, there are many more.

Lastly, the symbology and use of the rose.  Sometimes the faithful use other flowers in association with the Lady, such as lilies, carnations, and I've seen tulips, too!  But her preferred flower is the rose.  The rose has long been used in traditions associated with goddess worship.  It was the flower used to honor Aphrodite and Venus; to the Egyptians it was the flower of Horus; in Rome, whenever a secret meeting was to be held, a rose was usually strategically placed somewhere in the room so that all would know that the topics at hand were not to be discussed in public.  Letters or documents that were to be of great secrecy usually carried the symbol of the rose or were called "sub-rosa"..."under the rose", ie, in secret. (Many scholars cite the legend of Horus, Venus and Cupid as the source of this fascinating significance --  Horus coming upon one of Venus' many infidelities was bribed into secrecy by her son, Cupid.  The god Horus was then identified with secrets and silence and the flower itself a symbol of secrets and confidentiality).   The rose is also associated by early Christians with the 5 wounds of Christ; and the 5 pointed rose is also, astonishingly, found on the artwork  by Guillaume Caoursin in his "Descriptio Obsidionis Rhodiae Urbis" ca 1483 which contain some of the earliest artistic depiction of the Crusades, the Templars and the Hospitallers.  

There is so much more.  I don't know what it is, but I am game for the mystery!

Blytheviatrix
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Blythe

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#7    theQ

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Posted 19 February 2008 - 09:16 PM

Of course many of the bible inspirations were alien visitors...thats a fact.

#8    HUYI

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 11:24 PM

these days everything unexplained always seems to be a ufo or a alien lol and the very cool thing about this story is my first name is jacinta, also my family's religion is roman catholic aswell, spooky i know :S

Edited by HUYI, 23 February 2008 - 11:25 PM.


#9    Xtina99

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 11:20 PM

What I don't like about the Marian apparitions where there is communication is that she is always threatening:  If you don't say your rosary, if the Vatican doesn't change it's ways (she doesn't like the new rules laid down in the 1960's - she wants the older more formal mass, the older clothing the clergy used to wear), if you don't recommit yourself to Christ, you are going to die in the impending catastrophe and then fry in hell.  I'm an ex-Catholic because I hated this stuff in the church - all it did was make me afraid, and that is the worst reason to get down with a program.  This is that Bayside/Veronic Lueken and a couple of other Marian "communications"  Mary always seems to be working for the church -the Roman Catholic one.  Why is that?

I sometimes wonder if it is the apparitions of one time Catholics in the flesh that are doing these things - like the article says, they never say they are Mary, Mother of Jesus.  Heck, one of the appartions said she is the Immaculate Conception!  Huh?  If she means she has never lived in the flesh on the earth I wonder about that too.

#10    HollyDolly

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Posted 03 April 2008 - 07:25 PM

Xtina99,As a Catholic one is not required to believe  in these apparitions.My parents never said any of the great extravegent prayers to Mary ,calling Our Lady,Rose of Sharon,Ark of the Covenant,etc. They just said the plain Hail Mary
and that was it. I recall my confirmation class back in the late 1960s when we lived on Elmendorf AFB. During one of the classes the priest refered to Mary as the Holy Comforter. When my mom asked me about what Father taught us in class
and I mentioned what he said, my mom gave me a funny look,like Are you making this up? And then she said in a very annoyed voice,That the Holy Comforter was the Holy Spirit! I said Ohhhh! because I had never heard the term before and assumed Father knew what he was talking about since he was a priest.
I stupidly never thought to ask her why the priest would refer to Mary by that title.
The apparitions of Mary in Zeution,Eygpt and Knock did not speak to anyone. In fact,the one at Knock had Jesus as the Lamb of God on the altar,and Mary,St.Joseph and St.John worshiping Jesus.

God can send whomever he wants as a messenger. Now why there are so many apparitions to Catholics and not other groups,like the Orthodox,I don't know.Execpt the apparition in Egypt ,while not speaking was seen by muslims,christians and others alike.And the Virgin was showing people that she was praying for all of us,that instead of killing each other,we follow her Son Jesus and his command to love one other and do good to all men,especially those truly in need.

It is this sort of thing that causes protestants to say Catholics worship Mary,etc.
The apparition at Lourdes said it was the Immaculate Conception,assuming that Bernadette was aware of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception,that Mary,in order to be the Mother of Jesus as both God and Man,was freed from the stain of original sin.The sin of Adam and Eve and their disobiedence of God in the Garden of Eden.doesn't mean Mary never lived on Earth To me,it really should refer to the conception of Jesus in Mary's womb by the power of the Holy Spirit.
That is like the Assumption of Mary. To many Catholics, it means the assumption of Mary,both body and soul into Heaven.
I think it should refer to her passing and the taking of her soul into heaven,not both body and soul,as there is a tomb in the Holy Land that is believed to be the tomb of Mary,and I think under the control of the Franciscans or the Orthodox Church.
This was a very old debate between the franciscans and Dominicans and can befound on the net.

#11    The Archbishop

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 08:29 PM

First of all, in the story of Our Lady of Guadalupe, I can tell you didn't fully research the story. To begin with, you were right in saying that Juan de Zumarraga wasn't a bishop. This is because in 1527, he was appointed bishop-elect (Meaning he wasn't consecrated yet), which gave the Indians reason enough to call him "Bishop". Second of all, Bishop Zumarraga wasn't consecrated in 1533! He was consecrated in 1534. This mistake probably came from you looking for the date from wikipedia! Geeze, next time actually research the story. Instead of accusing Juan Diego's anecdote for lies, you should be trying to get the facts straight. With all these mistakes, your whole article falls to pieces.

#12    The Archbishop

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 08:31 PM

theQ on Feb 19 2008, 10:16 PM, said:

Of course many of the bible inspirations were alien visitors...thats a fact.



That is just plain lies. There are no alien visitors in the Bible...now this is a fact!

#13    The Archbishop

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Posted 14 July 2008 - 08:40 PM

Blytheviatrix on Feb 18 2008, 09:23 PM, said:

yes.gif

Excellent article!  I've been mystified by the Marian apparitions for some time now.

There various intriguing elements within all the apparitions.  The Lady never claims she is the Mother of Jesus,  but instead very subtly guides the matter of her identity, almost always allowing the believer to insinuate the connection.  Another issue which has blatantly been ignored by the Church, is the issue of the first accepted Marian apparition. According to the Vatican, the first accepted sighting of Mary was in 40AD (when, according to the Holy See) she was still alive.  She appeared to James the Greater in Saragossa, Spain.  She gave him a wood jasper (actually a crystal used in ancient times to ward off evil spirits) an image of herself and then asked that a church be built in her honor.  This apparition is called the Lady of the Pillar.

Upon further research, we find that the apparition almost always requests that a church or a shrine be erected upon the spot in her memory and, most notably, in her honor.  The question, for me at least, from a historical and theological standpoint is: why would the Virgin Mary ask anyone to have a church built in her honor? Would it not be more appropriate to ask that a church in God's name be erected?  I find this point most interesting and telling.

Then there is the apparition's introduction of "religious" items.  She has handed out or asked for many items that upon first inspection seem to be harmless, but upon a second and closer inspection are full of significance.  

Mr. Stoecker correctly mentioned the significance of water for the Celtic peoples, most notably the Druids.  Also, he mentions the use of the rosary and its connations.  The rosary itself may have its origin in the prayer beads used in the Middle East.  The very first mention we have of anything resembling a rosary (as they are today) is at the reading of the will of Lady Godiva of Coventry (ca. 1075 AD).  She apparently had had a gold chain with several precious stones linked to it and she was often seen using it during her daily prayers.  (Malmesbury, "Gesta Pont.", Rolls Series 311).   Yet paintings of the times show military orders such as the Templars and Hospitallers using something that suspiciously look like prayer beads (see the work of Caoursin).

The trees and bushes that the apparition chooses to stand on or float above are also of interest.  In Vietnam, the Lady of Lavang stood aside and above a banyan tree which is associated with immortality.  There are apparitions associated with elms and willows, all of which have a very strong Celtic and Druidic tradition.

The apparition also asks for medals to be struck and worn as protection and shields.  The use of the scapular is another tradition introduced to the masses by the apparition.  Medals and scapulars (not just made from cloth, but from metals and paper) are significant because these are all found in ancient cultures and associated with magical aspects and powers.  The symbology of the metals used in medals is also significant, with silver always being the metal of choice for the Lady.  Silver has usually been associated with Goddess worship from ancient times.  Silver is also associated with the Moon.  The Moon is associated with the Lady.

The colors that the apparition wears are also worthy of note. Even the length of the apparel is also of significance. The apparition usually dons blue and white apparel, sometimes red.  Gold and green are rare.  The robes are always long.  I do not think she has ever been seen in black, brown or gray.

Especially significant  is that the apparition is almost always associated with some sort of natural phenomenom or display.  In Lourdes it was the miraculous well; in Fatima, the spinning sun.  In Rome it was snow (Our Lady of the Snows, where the basilica Sta Maria Maggiore was built). Though I've only used a few examples, there are many more.

Lastly, the symbology and use of the rose.  Sometimes the faithful use other flowers in association with the Lady, such as lilies, carnations, and I've seen tulips, too!  But her preferred flower is the rose.  The rose has long been used in traditions associated with goddess worship.  It was the flower used to honor Aphrodite and Venus; to the Egyptians it was the flower of Horus; in Rome, whenever a secret meeting was to be held, a rose was usually strategically placed somewhere in the room so that all would know that the topics at hand were not to be discussed in public.  Letters or documents that were to be of great secrecy usually carried the symbol of the rose or were called "sub-rosa"..."under the rose", ie, in secret. (Many scholars cite the legend of Horus, Venus and Cupid as the source of this fascinating significance --  Horus coming upon one of Venus' many infidelities was bribed into secrecy by her son, Cupid.  The god Horus was then identified with secrets and silence and the flower itself a symbol of secrets and confidentiality).   The rose is also associated by early Christians with the 5 wounds of Christ; and the 5 pointed rose is also, astonishingly, found on the artwork  by Guillaume Caoursin in his "Descriptio Obsidionis Rhodiae Urbis" ca 1483 which contain some of the earliest artistic depiction of the Crusades, the Templars and the Hospitallers.  

There is so much more.  I don't know what it is, but I am game for the mystery!

Blytheviatrix






These days, it seems that people are more interested in finding connections to paganism with Christianity than taking the whole story just as it is. As a Roman Catholic, I believe in the apparitions and I don't try to say, "Oh, the symbolic rose must refer to goddess worship...". Why do some people try to act like modern Sherlocks trying to find exaggerated clues to distort events? Not to seem mean, but let's try to not go on another wild goose chase. Don't be so over-analytical.


#14    Justice please

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 05:50 AM

View PostThe Archbishop, on 14 July 2008 - 08:29 PM, said:

First of all, in the story of Our Lady of Guadalupe, I can tell you didn't fully research the story. To begin with, you were right in saying that Juan de Zumarraga wasn't a bishop. This is because in 1527, he was appointed bishop-elect (Meaning he wasn't consecrated yet), which gave the Indians reason enough to call him "Bishop". Second of all, Bishop Zumarraga wasn't consecrated in 1533! He was consecrated in 1534. This mistake probably came from you looking for the date from wikipedia! Geeze, next time actually research the story. Instead of accusing Juan Diego's anecdote for lies, you should be trying to get the facts straight. With all these mistakes, your whole article falls to pieces.

I agree with you on top of that the day of October 13 was not overcast it was raining! When the sun started to spin around it came close to the earth and dried everything. You can actually see photos of this by going to your local library. It shows photos of that day.

#15    Justice please

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Posted 29 September 2010 - 06:07 AM

View PostHollyDolly, on 03 April 2008 - 07:25 PM, said:

Xtina99,As a Catholic one is not required to believe  in these apparitions.My parents never said any of the great extravegent prayers to Mary ,calling Our Lady,Rose of Sharon,Ark of the Covenant,etc. They just said the plain Hail Mary
and that was it. I recall my confirmation class back in the late 1960s when we lived on Elmendorf AFB. During one of the classes the priest refered to Mary as the Holy Comforter. When my mom asked me about what Father taught us in class
and I mentioned what he said, my mom gave me a funny look,like Are you making this up? And then she said in a very annoyed voice,That the Holy Comforter was the Holy Spirit! I said Ohhhh! because I had never heard the term before and assumed Father knew what he was talking about since he was a priest.
I stupidly never thought to ask her why the priest would refer to Mary by that title.
The apparitions of Mary in Zeution,Eygpt and Knock did not speak to anyone. In fact,the one at Knock had Jesus as the Lamb of God on the altar,and Mary,St.Joseph and St.John worshiping Jesus.

God can send whomever he wants as a messenger. Now why there are so many apparitions to Catholics and not other groups,like the Orthodox,I don't know.Execpt the apparition in Egypt ,while not speaking was seen by muslims,christians and others alike.And the Virgin was showing people that she was praying for all of us,that instead of killing each other,we follow her Son Jesus and his command to love one other and do good to all men,especially those truly in need.

It is this sort of thing that causes protestants to say Catholics worship Mary,etc.
The apparition at Lourdes said it was the Immaculate Conception,assuming that Bernadette was aware of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception,that Mary,in order to be the Mother of Jesus as both God and Man,was freed from the stain of original sin.The sin of Adam and Eve and their disobiedence of God in the Garden of Eden.doesn't mean Mary never lived on Earth To me,it really should refer to the conception of Jesus in Mary's womb by the power of the Holy Spirit.

That is like the Assumption of Mary. To many Catholics, it means the assumption of Mary,both body and soul into Heaven.
I think it should refer to her passing and the taking of her soul into heaven,not both body and soul,as there is a tomb in the Holy Land that is believed to be the tomb of Mary,and I think under the control of the Franciscans or the Orthodox Church.
This was a very old debate between the franciscans and Dominicans and can befound on the net.



"God can send whomever he wants as a messenger. Now why there are so many apparitions to Catholics and not other groups,like the Orthodox,I don't know.Execpt the apparition in Egypt ,while not speaking was seen by muslims,christians and others alike.And the Virgin was showing people that she was praying for all of us,that instead of killing each other,we follow her Son Jesus and his command to love one other and do good to all men,especially those truly in need."



This paragraph alone says it all. God has to send someone to wake us up. Skeptics quit trying to figure out what is happening. As jacked up as the world is today you're wondering why shes here? Hello we need help? If you think she's a fake why don't you start helping people you see in need. Write to your politicians to get out of wars. Don't buy from big corporate stores use the mom and pop types instead. Try to grow your own food. Share with your neighbors. I can bet you the Virgin Mary wouldn't have to come around so much to scare us!!!!




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