97 replies to this topic

[sunnnz]

ACCORDING TO THE INDIAN RECORDS

HE IS ALREADY ON EARTH SINCE PAST ATLEAST 20 YEARS

AND WILL COME INTO HIS CONCIUS SOMEWHAT NEAR MID YEAR 2012.

[Fluffybunny]

So, where are you getting this stuff from?

[Hissie Sola]

Fluffybunny on Feb 16 2008, 08:18 PM, said:

So, where are you getting this stuff from?

That's what I wanted to know as well......... so I did some research;

This link mentions:

Quote

Kalki, Avatar of the Golden Age : Kalki, last incarnation of Vishnu is here, and intends to enlighten 60,000 people before 2012, so as to form a critical mass that will cause a chain-reaction, enlightening all mankind in preparation for the Golden age in 2012.

And this one is about the same topic.

Personally, I'm getting kinda tired of all those 2012 theories.....  

[grendals_bane]

Quote

Personally, I'm getting kinda tired of all those 2012 theories..... hmm.gif

Yeah I agree, wish 2012 would hurry up and arrive so I don't have to hear about it all the time.

[The_Spartan]

sunnnz on Feb 16 2008, 10:59 PM, said:

ACCORDING TO THE INDIAN RECORDS

HE IS ALREADY ON EARTH SINCE PAST ATLEAST 20 YEARS

AND WILL COME INTO HIS CONCIUS SOMEWHAT NEAR MID YEAR 2012.

Dude, which records could you specify?
I am from india. I would like to know which indian records have specifically provded these dates that this Kalki chap is already on planet earth for the last 20 years?

The only Kalki i have heard of is a "Sri Kalki Bhagavan" a fraud godman, who along with his wife have established a Oneness Movement (OM) and have duped millions of people through a prymaid scheme which according to a cult member in his own words

Quote

From a private correspondence, with identifying details omitted:

I have been associated with the cult of Sri Kalki Bhagavan (and his wife Padmavathi Amma), who positions himself as the Vishnu Avatar, and a God - although in recent years he has made his claims a little indirect, perhaps due to media criticism, and fear of ridicule.

I have served this cult for 2 year[s], attended their Deekshas, and [have] done a lot of promotion for them. I would like to bring to your notice that this cult is pressurizing its INDIAN devotees to donate large sums of wealth, if they want to remain in the good books of the disciples (dasas) who run the show, and progress further. We have even been asked to take loans (the last case was Rs 100,000 [$2,220.50 US] which is a large amount), and donate, if we don't have the money. We have been told that we can repay the loans over a few years!

From the day we join we are pressurized to bring in new people and send them for the initial 3-day deeksha (costing Rs 5000 [$110 US]). This is because to qualify for the higher level we must send 60 (now 30) people for the program. First we are told that the 3-day program will enlighten us (for only Rs 5000!), then we are told - sorry the higher process will enlighten you. So we have no option but to talk others (family, friends etc) into joining and going for the 3-day program.

Once we have sent so many people, and we find no change in us, it is very difficult to step out. I have still not told my family that I have left, for loss of face. In order to convince 60 people to go, we have to exaggerate and make tall claims. We have to create a miracle out of each little incident that happened to us (such as getting a green light on the way to work) etc. We have to keep talking of unending grace, and say things like "our whole life has changed". We are all basically sincere people, but we start telling lies without realizing it, and a time comes when we are stuck.

New people are lured in by promises of unending "grace", and then after we tell them lots of stories (most of them are just heard from others, no one has any evidence of them actually happening.), then the disciples ask them to make donations, or go for paid darshans in order to get that "unending grace". These darshans are expensive and the latest one is that we can touch Amma's feet for Rs 100,000. Prior to going for the higher process we were all told that in order for the higher process to be a great success we should make this donation. Many of us are very ordinary people, some have left our jobs to pursue a spiritual goal, so the amount is no small order.

Even the higher process (two weeks) has made no difference to anyone. Although it does seem to us, that the program for foreigners (21 days, USD 5500) has resulted in some enlightened people (such as Freddie Nielsen and Kiara Windrider - we have heard they are enlightened), however in India there is not even an attempt at spiritual growth of devotees. It is only talk of great "celestial" miracles, and enlightenment is always round the next corner, after the next darshan (donation).

Because of all the stories we perpetuate, the number of devotees has really gone up dramatically, each wondering when his turn for endless grace will come. They claim over 30 million devotees, although I don't know how this figure has been computed.

Sarlo, I write this to you primarily because I am concerned that large numbers of poor and low-income people in India are being fleeced by this cult, each hoping that his string of problems will magically vanish after a darshan or deeksha. When nothing happens their suffering increases.

We actually convince ourselves that we are happier than even before for a while after the deeksha. In that short period we are pushed to recruit more people and share our great experiences with others.

The experiences we narrate are always the tales we were told by the disciples about others who got great grace.

Please keep my name under wraps. It is not safe for me, since I have been working very actively promoting this cult, and they know that I can negatively affect them through the internet.

- Source For all those who wangted to know the truth behind these Godmen - try http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com

Is this fraud Godman the Kalki you are speaking of??

[Ozi]

I can confirm to you guys that the Kalki Avatar has been and gone. If you really knew what you were talking about and knew the hindu scriptures, then you would know like most hindu scholars are finding today that, the Kalki Avatar , was muhammed (pbuh). He had been prophecised in the vedas and other books more than any other religious book, infact he is also mentioned by name in the hindu scriptures, and the Kalki aVatar means the final prophet etc. if you want i can eloborate on this more and provide proof from the hindu scriptures if needed.

Kalki AVatar is not coming now, he has been, all that is mentioned in the scriptures relates to Muhammed and the advent of Islam.

[SunDogDayze]

Ozi on Feb 18 2008, 08:05 AM, said:

I can confirm to you guys that the Kalki Avatar has been and gone. If you really knew what you were talking about and knew the hindu scriptures, then you would know like most hindu scholars are finding today that, the Kalki Avatar , was muhammed (pbuh). He had been prophecised in the vedas and other books more than any other religious book, infact he is also mentioned by name in the hindu scriptures, and the Kalki aVatar means the final prophet etc. if you want i can eloborate on this more and provide proof from the hindu scriptures if needed.

Kalki AVatar is not coming now, he has been, all that is mentioned in the scriptures relates to Muhammed and the advent of Islam.

Ozi, you will use anything to push your beliefs won't you. For God's sake, is Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny Muhammed as well? And please look up the word proof. You use it instead of "inconclusive evidence" all the time, and I would like you to educate yourself. Stop coming across so condescending (if we really knew what we were talking about?) You are not the enlightened one who is inherently correct and we are not all uneducated fools who are dying to know what your train of thought is like.

Quote

Personally, I'm getting kinda tired of all those 2012 theories..... hmm.gif

Me too, but you know there will probably be another Doomsday prophesy that we will be hearing about after 2012 has come and gone.

[Ozi]

SunDogDayze on Feb 18 2008, 01:18 PM, said:

Ozi, you will use anything to push your beliefs won't you. For God's sake, is Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny Muhammed as well? And please look up the word proof. You use it instead of "inconclusive evidence" all the time, and I would like you to educate yourself. Stop coming across so condescending (if we really knew what we were talking about?) You are not the enlightened one who is inherently correct and we are not all uneducated fools who are dying to know what your train of thought is like.



Me too, but you know there will probably be another Doomsday prophesy that we will be hearing about after 2012 has come and gone.

That sounds like a challenge, how i bet you, I can prove that muhammed is mentioned in the hindu scirptures, bhuddist, the torah and the gospel to begin with. Out of those, the hindu scriptures refer to his coming more than any other, its the oldest of sources too, and they all mentioned him by name, until the scribes of the torah and the gospel try to change it, but still its clearly there. Im not rying to push any thing, infact its poeple like yourself and other skeptics, who always sound condenscending about religion, god etc. I merely responded to the thread, which has not been brought up before. Especailly the Kalki Avatar, which clearly in context in the hindu scriptures refers to the coming of muhammed, the latter was mentioned by all prophets and all books, its clear to be seen. Rather than getting emotional be objective and see what i can bring.

[The_Spartan]

pathetic situation that some muslim fundamentalists have to resort to linking to other religions to put forth their point!

[SunDogDayze]

Ozi on Feb 18 2008, 08:32 AM, said:

That sounds like a challenge, how i bet you, I can prove that muhammed is mentioned in the hindu scirptures, bhuddist, the torah and the gospel to begin with. Out of those, the hindu scriptures refer to his coming more than any other, its the oldest of sources too, and they all mentioned him by name, until the scribes of the torah and the gospel try to change it, but still its clearly there. Im not rying to push any thing, infact its poeple like yourself and other skeptics, who always sound condenscending about religion, god etc. I merely responded to the thread, which has not been brought up before. Especailly the Kalki Avatar, which clearly in context in the hindu scriptures refers to the coming of muhammed, the latter was mentioned by all prophets and all books, its clear to be seen. Rather than getting emotional be objective and see what i can bring.

The only challenge I am presenting you with is to learn that you and your religion have absolutely no proof of any of this. It is all circular logic. It is not proof.

I am not condescending, I have defended you in other forums when people were trying to make you sound stupid for believing in what you do. I think anyone can believe what they want, as long as they don't try to cram it down my throat by trying to intertwine it into every conversation, and understand and use the proper words to fit the definitions. You don't have proof. Stop pushing your religion, there is absolutely no way that you are going to convince anyone with a Forrest Gump level IQ or higher that your religion has more proof or evidence than any other.

I do not hold any of the ancient texts (Bible, Torah, Kalki Avatar, Popul Vuh, etc etc etc) to every word. Translation, intention, editing, and the imaginations of men have had way too much time to skew them from their original meaning.


*To the OP: I am truly sorry I hijacked your thread, I see Ozi trying to swerve into his Muslim pushing agenda rhetoric, and I thought I would try to derail it. Sorry. Back on topic now.

Edited by SunDogDayze, 18 February 2008 - 02:14 PM.

[Ozi]

Da Verminator on Feb 18 2008, 01:56 PM, said:

pathetic situation that some muslim fundamentalists have to resort to linking to other religions to put forth their point!

SunDogDayze on Feb 18 2008, 02:12 PM, said:

The only challenge I am presenting you with is to learn that you and your religion have absolutely no proof of any of this. It is all circular logic. It is not proof.

I am not condescending, I have defended you in other forums when people were trying to make you sound stupid for believing in what you do. I think anyone can believe what they want, as long as they don't try to cram it down my throat by trying to intertwine it into every conversation, and understand and use the proper words to fit the definitions. You don't have proof. Stop pushing your religion, there is absolutely no way that you are going to convince anyone with a Forrest Gump level IQ or higher that your religion has more proof or evidence than any other.

I do not hold any of the ancient texts (Bible, Torah, Kalki Avatar, Popul Vuh, etc etc etc) to every word. Translation, intention, editing, and the imaginations of men have had way too much time to skew them from their original meaning.


*To the OP: I am truly sorry I hijacked your thread, I see Ozi trying to swerve into his Muslim pushing agenda rhetoric, and I thought I would try to derail it. Sorry. Back on topic now.

I appreciate you backing me up, but i never asked you to do so, im more than capable of handling things myself, especially with the ignorant hundreds here. You say i bring in islamic agenda in to threads, only when i feel there is a link. You bring skeptism, i bring islamism. We work inthe same way.

Regarding proof, i have given plenty, and often i get rebuttals outdated and long answered, but then those who post the allegations, have never read the rebuttals and repsonded appropriately, showing me the bias and unjust observers amongst us.  How am i cramming down islam down people throats, when some post an article on the Kalki Avatar, claiming he is to come in 2012, so i post something to suggest otherwise, and my suggestion comes by studying those religions that mention muhammed. Now you tell me, when was the last time you read the quran objectively, or even to mock it, never, when was the last time your read any religious scripture that you speak so loud against. Never. The fact im right most of the time, is what worries most of you here, you quickly want me out of the way. To know something you have to go to its source, now tell me have you done this, i wanted to know about christianity, so istudied the bible, hindusim the vedas, etc etc. What do most of you do here, Wiki, the answer for everything. You guys should be ashamed you claim to be just, how can you justify debating on a matter or a religion that you have never studied. REally what do you know about islam, besides what you have been told, seen on TV etc, have you ever picked up the quran to read it, if i wanted to know something about christianity or anythign else for that matter, you go to the experts, how many of you have ever gone to a muslims scholar to get answers etc, when? Never. Then you have the cheek to say to me i have no proof and i go in circular fashions, the latter is largely due to people like yourself who never actually study the sources, instead to know about islam you go to non muslims, and non muslims sources, how is this just, if i did the same and took all i know about other religions from muslims, the i would have a biased opinion like yourselves.

As for proof of the quran being divine etc,  thats irrefutable and those of you who have tried and posted allegations etc, i answered everysingle one, but those who post the rubish dare not read the rebuttals, because they know, afterwards they will have no leg to stand on. Just like now, if brough forward the numerous vedic prohecies about muhammed specifically, it will be ignored, due to fear of the truth, most people choose to live within ignorance, believing its bliss. i can bring verse from the books i mentioned, to show you muhammed was mentioned in these once divine scriptures. But again who will read it non, and some will post refutations which i expect, therefore i am prepared with rebuttals for them too, this is research, knowing the qustions that will arise and refutations and being prepared for them, now tell me those who post in reply, what research is their, Its wiki and the net. And you call yourselves just, most of you cant handle the truth. the fact you think im cramming down islam down your throat, shows me that, you are worried in one way or another. All i did was simply reply to the thread to give a different angle on the Kalki AVatar, if i had agreed with the poster or made something up which would be far fetched, most of you prob would have agreed or not said much. I will always have islamic perspective on things, thats my belief, like christian or jews, the fact your threatened by me shows me that your heart is slowly opening to the truth, and often from extreme hate towards islam, people often research it, the way it should be done, and before you know it, they accept it. Hence its the fastest growing religion in the world.

I will put my money where my mouth is so to speak, i can show from allthe religions i mentioned that muahmmed was prophecised, esp in the hindu books and by jesus.

DA VERMIN.....

mate, you and i are both from the subcontinet, but what shocks me is how little you know of hinduism. You see if most christians, jews, hindus, actually read the scriptures and practised what they are told, you would be a lot closer to islam and muslims in practise. The fact they are often not, is because they dont actually read their books, and if they do, they practise the exact opposite.

Edited by Ozi, 18 February 2008 - 02:37 PM.

[SunDogDayze]

Ozi, have you not figured out that all the 'rebuttals' you gave were disregarded. We didn't answer them because there was no point. Either that, or we did try to and YOU didn't get the point. We aren't scared of you and all your so called 'proof,' we just get frustrated cause talking fact and proof with you is like talking to a brickwall.

I don't speak out against anything. Except pushing an agenda when you aren't wanted to.

In other words: Shut up about the 'connections' between Islam and everything else and all your proof that IS NOT PROOF. No one wants to hear it. Join conversations, give opinions or what have you, but lay off on the trying to convince us all that we should all be Moslem.

[Ozi]

SunDogDayze on Feb 18 2008, 03:04 PM, said:

Ozi, have you not figured out that all the 'rebuttals' you gave were disregarded. We didn't answer them because there was no point. Either that, or we did try to and YOU didn't get the point. We aren't scared of you and all your so called 'proof,' we just get frustrated cause talking fact and proof with you is like talking to a brickwall.

I don't speak out against anything. Except pushing an agenda when you aren't wanted to.

In other words: Shut up about the 'connections' between Islam and everything else and all your proof that IS NOT PROOF. No one wants to hear it. Join conversations, give opinions or what have you, but lay off on the trying to convince us all that we should all be Moslem.

You see, when you can answer the rebuttals, it because i dont understand them. LOL. You see this tells me that your worried and lying. The latter especially, you see, i dealt with everysingle allegation posted, comprehensively, if poeple dint agree, it was largely due to their personl prejudiced opinion and not on scientific grounds etc. I ask you, what do you really know about islam, i can connect it to what i want, just like other people here, if you are afradi to contend with it, this is your own downfall. No one tried to debate, they simple allege with plenty of red herrings, the only people that asnwered objectively, was yourself and capeo, the rest post their rubbish and dont check the rebuttals and you know this, you simply cannot admit it.

For example if i said, the qurans challenge to debunk all of islam is to bring somethig like it, just two verses, why can this be done, it challenges the whole universe to do it, and straight after it says you cant and never will be able to. Its easy is it not, to debunk on this basis, or another option is find  a single mistake, which some tried and i expected those allegations and anwsered them, what was their reply non, just more red herrings, not contructive reply to the rebuttal or to event to accept, that my answer was sufficient. You call this justice.

Most of you sat in your chairs at your pc's claims to be just and fair, yet most of you debate on matters, that you have no idea about or have never studied, Im i right or wrong, again im right, i know it. Even you word Moslem, has no crebility and shows your lack of knowledge so how can you even respond accurately to what i say about islam, you have never studied it, because if you have, you would know, Muslim is the right word and the word you use Moslem, is a jewish derrogritory term towards muslims adopted by the US. There is no such thing as Moslem. Thats my point.

How can you even say my proof is not proof, when you have idea what the proof is, and what islam is, you base your judgments on your knowledge based on other religions, islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and its the most misunderstood too.

If any of you had any credibility, i usually thought it to be u or capeo, who tend to study, which was my impression, i guess it was wrong, because you dont know anything about islam, therefore its my job to teach you and others and get rid of misconceptions.

[SunDogDayze]

Ozi on Feb 18 2008, 10:18 AM, said:

You see, when you can answer the rebuttals, it because i dont understand them. LOL. You see this tells me that your worried and lying. The latter especially, you see, i dealt with everysingle allegation posted, comprehensively, if poeple dint agree, it was largely due to their personl prejudiced opinion and not on scientific grounds etc. I ask you, what do you really know about islam, i can connect it to what i want, just like other people here, if you are afradi to contend with it, this is your own downfall. No one tried to debate, they simple allege with plenty of red herrings, the only people that asnwered objectively, was yourself and capeo, the rest post their rubbish and dont check the rebuttals and you know this, you simply cannot admit it.

For example if i said, the qurans challenge to debunk all of islam is to bring somethig like it, just two verses, why can this be done, it challenges the whole universe to do it, and straight after it says you cant and never will be able to. Its easy is it not, to debunk on this basis, or another option is find  a single mistake, which some tried and i expected those allegations and anwsered them, what was their reply non, just more red herrings, not contructive reply to the rebuttal or to event to accept, that my answer was sufficient. You call this justice.

Most of you sat in your chairs at your pc's claims to be just and fair, yet most of you debate on matters, that you have no idea about or have never studied, Im i right or wrong, again im right, i know it. Even you word Moslem, has no crebility and shows your lack of knowledge so how can you even respond accurately to what i say about islam, you have never studied it, because if you have, you would know, Muslim is the right word and the word you use Moslem, is a jewish derrogritory term towards muslims adopted by the US. There is no such thing as Moslem. Thats my point.

How can you even say my proof is not proof, when you have idea what the proof is, and what islam is, you base your judgments on your knowledge based on other religions, islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and its the most misunderstood too.

If any of you had any credibility, i usually thought it to be u or capeo, who tend to study, which was my impression, i guess it was wrong, because you dont know anything about islam, therefore its my job to teach you and others and get rid of misconceptions.

I do study Ozi. A lot.

What I am saying is simple. It is not proof. Please read the definition of proof. What you have, the Quran and all the connections you find, they are all evidence only, and not very stable evidence at that. I am not trying to belittle your beliefs. Please believe anything you want. But realize that the word proof can not be placed on anything that relies solely on the words in a text that is several thousand years old.

I am sorry about the Moslem/Muslim confusion. I will not use it again. I have never read or heard anything about that, in all my reading.

[BranwenLove]

Good lord....or whoever....can we PLEASE get back on topic? Ozi...hon...you SERIOUSLY need to stop linking islamic scripture in so many posts you read. Seriously.
Personally, I do not care to hear any more on the topic. Or on any freaking religion. They are all the same in my eyes. If you want to break this down to religion....go to another forum.

Course...now that I scroll up....this was all concerning some random guy that was supposed to be reincarnated to "enlighten masses" anyways..

Screw it. On with the show and arguments or what have you. I am simply going to disregard this thread.

Edited by BranwenLove, 18 February 2008 - 03:28 PM.