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Psi Wheel


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#1    DfizzleShizzle

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 11:03 PM

I have been hearing alot of people saying thye can move a psi-wheel. I don't doubt these reports at all, but a ton of the skeptics here do disbelieve these reports..And, so you don't trick yourself (As I do admit some things can falsely make it move)


*THIS IS NOT A HOW TO DO TELEKINESIS POST. THIS IS MEANT TO HELP PEOPLE HAVE THE PROPER SET UP, IF YOU WAN'T TIPS ON TK ITSELF, THEN PM ME*



1. Get or make a psi-wheel, for a good how-to make a psi wheel article click here...
                    Psi wheel
         It's near the middle in the page, it's a picture...  *Make it balanced, helps alot*



2. Close all air vents, windows, anywhere air could escape to push the wheel...



3. Let the psi-wheel stand idle for a little bit, just to make sure it doesn't move when you're not trying...


4. Now, stand a good distance away, where body heat won't cause it to move...

Or, just put the wheel under a jar, and put ice packs in with the jar...


Ok, thats about all you need to know about how to make a proper set up for a psi-wheel...


If you want questions bout how to move it either PM me or if you have a quick question just post here...







"A believer is a songless bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wings." -Robert G. Ingersoll

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins

#2    eight bits

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 11:14 PM

Quote

put ice packs in with the jar

H, it's temperature difference that is the concern. Under what conditions would ice packs be helpful, in your view?

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#3    drakonwick

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 11:20 PM

eight bits on Feb 26 2008, 06:14 PM, said:

H, it's temperature difference that is the concern. Under what conditions would ice packs be helpful, in your view?

Exactly! A temperature difference is one of the main reasons it spins.

I remember the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." - J. Robert Oppenheimer.

#4    DfizzleShizzle

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:29 AM

It's convection that makes it spin...If you have problems with heta in the jar, add ice packs, to regulatre the tempratures

"A believer is a songless bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wings." -Robert G. Ingersoll

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins

#5    drakonwick

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:43 AM

Heartagram3200 on Feb 26 2008, 07:29 PM, said:

It's convection that makes it spin...If you have problems with heta in the jar, add ice packs, to regulatre the tempratures

How do you think that will regulate the temperature?

I remember the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." - J. Robert Oppenheimer.

#6    DfizzleShizzle

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 01:11 AM

Moro Bumbleroot on Feb 26 2008, 07:43 PM, said:

How do you think that will regulate the temperature?



It will bring the temprature down, causing the convection not to occur...If the airs cold it won't do anything...
Since cold air sinks, it won't spin the wheel because the ice packs will be below the wheel...As long as you don't tape the ice to the top of the jar you should be good...

"A believer is a songless bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wings." -Robert G. Ingersoll

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins

#7    klunk

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 02:39 AM

Yes but it will push air that's warmer upwards. I think just a jar is good because the heat from your hands will not go through it too much.


#8    Atheist God

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 02:54 AM

Heartagram3200 on Feb 26 2008, 06:29 PM, said:

It's convection that makes it spin...If you have problems with heta in the jar, add ice packs, to regulatre the tempratures


Ice packs do not regulate the temperature but it will create an air current. Because all the air around the ice packs is warmer and pushing against the cold it creates movement... Think of how a massive storm that spawns a tornado forms... hot air clashing with cold air etc.

Quote

It will bring the temprature down, causing the convection not to occur...If the airs cold it won't do anything...
Since cold air sinks, it won't spin the wheel because the ice packs will be below the wheel...As long as you don't tape the ice to the top of the jar you should be good...


Cold air just won't sit in the jar as you claim and heres why.

Because the surrounding air is warmer it will heat the glass, melt the ice packs etc... unless the room is far below 0 what you describe simply cannot work.

If air was visible it would appear to be fluid like in nature, even inside of a jar. When you add ice packs you have cold air pushing against warm air and you create air currents.

Quote

Yes but it will push air that's warmer upwards. I think just a jar is good because the heat from your hands will not go through it too much.


I can make a psi wheel spin under a jar just using the heat from my hands.

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#9    eight bits

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 11:53 AM

It's just wrong physics, H.

You can't explain the supernatural 'til you've got some idea of how the natural works.

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#10    drakonwick

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 02:32 PM

I'm glad some of you took the time to explain why Hearts experiment is flawed.

Heart! Putting ice cubes in a jar with your psi/pinwheel experiment will cause it to act more like a generator.

1. Ice in the jar, meaning theres going to be colder air at the bottom.

2. The colder air around the ice packs will push against the warmer air around the jar, therefore creating air currents.



Regards,
Tom

I remember the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." - J. Robert Oppenheimer.

#11    Nucular

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 05:16 PM

Kudos for trying though, Heartagram – I think there should be more of this self-testing approach before people post about their various powers.  People will always fool themselves, protocol or no protocol, but this approach will help those who genuinely don’t want to.

However, as well as the above criticisms of your proposed protocol, another would be that it could still consist of simply sitting and waiting for the wheel to move, which it eventually will.  There are no time-limits, and we will never completely eliminate air currents and temperature changes.

In order to tell the difference between random movement and movement caused by ‘psi’, therefore, I think building in some sort of randomisation and control conditions would be a useful thing.  The nature of these would depend on what the general opinion is on what would be reasonable to expect of someone who can affect a psi-wheel.

For instance, do you think it would be reasonable to expect that somebody could alternately spin a wheel, stop, then spin it again, several times over within a short space of time?  This could help to ascertain that it really is the person affecting the wheel, and do away with the need for perfect temperature control and so forth.  Randomised ‘on/off’ trials, maybe determined by the roll of a dice or whatever, of various lengths, would be a good way to do this.

Another idea might be to factor in some blinding, which again would depend on what’s reasonable to expect of a psi-wheel spinner.

How reliable is the ‘ability’?  What kind of a ‘hit-rate’ might we expect for a ‘spin… stop…. Spin again’ type of test?


#12    DfizzleShizzle

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 08:44 PM

Yea, but the way to make sure you are really moving it..Is to try and spin it, make it stop, and spin the other way...Simple...

"A believer is a songless bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wings." -Robert G. Ingersoll

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins

#13    Nucular

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 09:17 PM

Heartagram3200 on Feb 27 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

Yea, but the way to make sure you are really moving it..Is to try and spin it, make it stop, and spin the other way...Simple...

Again, with no time limits, randomisation or predetermined goal, it's not going to stop people tricking themselves, as you stated was your intention.

If the ability is that reliable, start by doing exactly what you said in your last post, but just make sure that you've decided beforehand on your parameters and criteria for success or failure.  For instance, assuming you're just doing it unblinded, just for yourself, make it spin for one minute, then stop; then make it spin the other way for one minute, then stop; then make it spin alternate directions as many times as you can in a minute, then stop.

If you achieve this in a way that others would accept, you may well be onto something, and you could try again for longer and with some kind of randomisation built in - for instance, determining for alternate minutes whether to spin it or not with a coin flip.  If the first thing doesn't work in the first place, either the power is not particularly predictable, and will therefore be more difficult to test, or you don't have a power.

I'm not trying to make it needlessly complicated, it's just that common flaws in psi experiments include a lack of time limits, which means that we can start any time something seems to be happening, and finish whenever it stops happening; and a lack of randomisation, which means you get to choose what to do in the moment and thereby retain the possibility of post hoc justification for random movements.  These flaws aren't going to help you not kid yourself.


#14    Atheist God

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 09:25 PM

Heartagram3200 on Feb 27 2008, 02:44 PM, said:

Yea, but the way to make sure you are really moving it..Is to try and spin it, make it stop, and spin the other way...Simple...


I just don't think that the pin wheel can ever be a full proof tool to measure this ability if it exists. There is only one way to full proof it and that would be to put it into a vacuum chamber and eliminate not only any possible air flow but friction caused by the air itself on the wheel making it even more sensitive.

However if such an ability did or does exist it would yes be a potentially useful tool to practice with due to it's sensitivity.




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#15    Nucular

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 09:46 PM

AtheistGod on Feb 27 2008, 09:25 PM, said:

I just don't think that the pin wheel can ever be a full proof tool to measure this ability if it exists. There is only one way to full proof it and that would be to put it into a vacuum chamber and eliminate not only any possible air flow but friction caused by the air itself on the wheel making it even more sensitive.

However if such an ability did or does exist it would yes be a potentially useful tool to practice with due to it's sensitivity.

AG, I see what you're saying, but I do think with a careful setup we could distinguish between random air currents and genuine psi without the need for a vacuum chamber or other high technology.

At the simplest level, being able to stop it and start it at the command of another could help to make that distinction (though of course we'd need to go further than that).

The pinwheel will always move with random air currents, this much is true: but if we could display nonrandom movement, there would be no need for cryonic vacuum chambers and the like.





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