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I created a new world religion


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#151    crtDzyn

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 07:27 PM

You are far too generous, sir.  You have made an expensive selection of cigar to go along with such an exotic menu.  I now feel those pathetic PB&J's my mother prepared for me as a tike were simply a cop out, taking advantage of my cultural ignorance.  Despite the newly formed doubts of my mother's love, your munificence does not go unappreciated.

I think I'll start with the papaya. wink2.gif

Sidenote: Can you guarantee that those making my vodka were virgins?

Edited by crtbud, 26 March 2008 - 07:52 PM.

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#152    Mbyte

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 08:36 PM

IronGhost on Mar 26 2008, 03:11 PM, said:

But I never said there "is no truth" -- in fact, I said just the opposite.  I said the Truth is with us all the time, is here now and everywhere, but that most people have come to believe the Truth is lost, and they must go out and find it, or try to somehow uncover it with their intelligence -- that's ridiculous.

What they end up producing are all kinds of bizarre concepts -- and then very often -- they start killing each other because no ne agrees on the definition of the truth.

People using their intelligence to "find the truth" is what is causing all of the problems in the world.

My wife is a conservative, Bible believing Christian.  She thinks that Jesus Christ is her savior, and that all the truth anyone needs can be found in his teachings.  I ask her sometimes if that is true, then why have the teachings of Christ caused millions of Christians to kill millions of other people over the centuries?  And she says they are misunderstanding the central truths of Jesus' teachings.

Well, fine -- but the fact remains, the great truths Jesus supposedly gave us have caused wars, subjugation of women and other groups, endless scandals, as with Catholic priests raping tens of thousands of children around the world -- just endless amounts of pain, tragedy, human suffering and chaos.

Yet these Christians believe they are on "the path of Truth."

It's ridiculous.

People should never go out and acvtively "seek the Truth" because it is not only so obviously ridiculous to do so, but an impossible task.

Rather, people must realize that they do not "go to the truth -- but rather, the Truth will come to them when they are ready to receive it.

Whenever someone tries to "seek" "find" "discover" "create" "understand" the Truth -- they are doing just exactly the wrong thing.

So, you will never ever "find" the Truth -- you can only let the Truth "find" you.

If you stop seeking the Truth, or trying to understand the Truth, you will stay out of a huge amount of trouble in your life -- and the less trouble you have, the greater the chances are that the Truth will come to you all that much sooner -- even though it is already here, and never went anywhere in the first place.

Well if the truth comes to you then do you not understand it?

You can say that the truth finds you but it just sounds the same as finding the truth. If you don't take notice then you won't see it. In philosophy the talk about emptying your cup of tea. When you ask a question you create a void mentally and this void must be filled with the answer. It's like your creating a mental structure for your brain to look for the answer for your question. If you never comprehend the question you won't get the answer.

Did you cheat on me?

No. (actually did)

Thats not the truth.

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."

#153    kua

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Posted 27 March 2008 - 08:03 PM

IronGhost on Mar 26 2008, 08:16 PM, said:

Here is the banquet

You could open a restaurant. grin2.gif


#154    little_dreamer

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 01:37 AM

I generally agree that a religion should be peaceful and avoid inner and outer human conflicts.  
Also a religion should be logically consistent and not contradict itself.

The message is the important thing, not the source of the inspiration.   Also the only deception would be if the religion claimed to
be "divinely inspired" when it wasn't (no offense to your writing skills - you clearly have the knack).

There's one thing that puzzles me.  You say you don't want to release the details about the religion, and your contract forbids it.  Fair enough.

But I think a determined person (with more time on their hands than me), might be able to figure it out, based on a process of elimination.

This could be done by looking for web articles that could show how many recent religions in the past 5 years have 40,000 followers.

Also you said you had a meeting with some people in L.A. about it.  Maybe someone there will mention it.

I've enjoyed your other work, and I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.  


#155    IronGhost

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 02:48 PM

snackfood on Mar 31 2008, 01:37 AM, said:

I generally agree that a religion should be peaceful and avoid inner and outer human conflicts.  
Also a religion should be logically consistent and not contradict itself.

The message is the important thing, not the source of the inspiration.   Also the only deception would be if the religion claimed to
be "divinely inspired" when it wasn't (no offense to your writing skills - you clearly have the knack).

There's one thing that puzzles me.  You say you don't want to release the details about the religion, and your contract forbids it.  Fair enough.

But I think a determined person (with more time on their hands than me), might be able to figure it out, based on a process of elimination.

This could be done by looking for web articles that could show how many recent religions in the past 5 years have 40,000 followers.

Also you said you had a meeting with some people in L.A. about it.  Maybe someone there will mention it.

I've enjoyed your other work, and I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.


Your comments are lucid because you touched on some very central issues that were part of my effort -- for example, one of the first things I considered in the construction of my new religion is your statement that "a religion should be logically consistent and not contradict itself."

Anyone can quickly realize that no religion on the planet today meets this condition.  

This is part of the reason why we have so much spiritual and psychic agony on the planet.  People are seeking to plug into a system that provides them with the truth, but every system they adopt falls way short, because it is necessarily inconsistent.

In my religion, I took inspiration from Godel's First Theorem, which states:

For any consistent formal, recursively enumerable theory that proves basic arithmetical truths, an arithmetical statement that is true, but not provable in the theory, can be constructed. That is, any effectively generated theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both consistent and complete.

Of course, Godel's Theorem cannot be applied across the board and easily tranferred to verbal statements of logic -- however, the central idea is a great starting point.

Godel proved that any system of mathematics powerful enough to do arithmetic could not be both consistent and complete.  In effect, the theorem makes this statement:

"This statement cannot be proven to be true."

This means that no matter how hard we attempt to achieve consistency, we may have truth -- but there will always be some doubt or uncertainty about it.

For most religions, this is an agonizing struggle.  In fact, Godel's theorem caused even large numbers of mathemeticians to agonize over the fact that, in doing math, they most likely were not in the business of discovering truth.

For those who practice religion, the agony experienced by math people is even greater.

So, in the religion I created -- I sought -- successfully, I think -- to eliminate this central, agonzing struggle -- and the starting point is to accept the reality that any proof can only exist in a small frame -- but cannot exist in Totality.

Starting from this initial premise has the effect of creating an expansive sense of freedom and just plain old relief from some very central struggles for most people.

I really sweated bullets developing a system of practice that could incorporate these concepts -- and thankfully -- I received a lot of help from the Ouija entity !QAXIKQ! -- and the result was a multi-layered system that could eliminate the struggle against inconsistency.

Also, because I structured the religion in a kind of heirarchy of systems -- the religion will helpfully collapse when certain precepts are violated.  For example, many here have worried that someone will take my religion and alter it in negative ways, such as if someone tries to use my religions as a system to generate money.  This is impossible, because as soon as someone attempts to raise money -- the whole system will collapse, the my religion will cease to exist for that person -- and it will be self evident.

________

As far as your comments about people using Web searches to discover the identity of my religion, and identify it as the religion created by me -- this is impossible.  A process of elimination also simply cannot work, for a reason that is not complex, but very simple.

As for my meetings in L.A. about my new religion -- I presented my ideas to a group of about 200 people, but at this point, I did not identify my system as for what it was -- rather, I wanted to test some central concepts of my religion and guage reaction.  So the religion was not yet complete, and was yet to be identified as for what it would become in its final form.  My seminar was simple billed as a discussion of philosophy.

Thanks, Snackfood, for your kind comments.






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#156    iSeeDeadPpl!

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 10:55 PM

what exactly did the ouija board tell you to add to this religion?

Edited by Open your mind, 31 March 2008 - 10:57 PM.


#157    little_dreamer

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 12:27 AM

My original thought was high school geometry.  There are these things called postulates, which are basic assumptions that can't be proven or disproven.  Everything else is derived from these assumptions.  

So if you change the basic assumptions, you get a totally a totally different geometry - or religion.  I've heard there's something called Logic Theory, which I know nothing about, but it sounds promising.  

It could be that your math guys have developed a system that is consistent but pure nonsense, and why they feel they are getting away from Truth.

I don't want to alienate everyone by talking about MATH, though.  A lot of people are phobic about that word.   Some philosophy or debate courses also may try to explain why an argument may be invalid.  
Getting off-topic?







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#158    mandala

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Posted 01 April 2008 - 01:34 AM

what's the big freakin deal  sleepy.gif


#159    Oen Anderson

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 06:17 AM

The Truth is that there is no money.  We all prostitute ourselves to our employers for the same worthless Federal Reserve Note nothing.  Let he who is without that sin cast out their stones, if they have a pair.  If he did it for money and there is no money then he did it all for nothing!


#160    SoCrazes

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 11:56 PM

Oen Anderson on Apr 9 2008, 06:17 AM, said:

The Truth is that there is no money.  We all prostitute ourselves to our employers for the same worthless Federal Reserve Note nothing.  Let he who is without that sin cast out their stones, if they have a pair.  If he did it for money and there is no money then he did it all for nothing!

One does things for money/currency not for the money/currency itself; but, for the worldly gains that it represents....mammon.

"The unexamined life is not worth living." - Socrates

#161    theGhost_and_theDarkness

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 12:12 AM

I love all your posts ironghost . . . They always give me something to think about.  grin2.gif

"To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge." ~ Benjamin Disraeli

#162    IronGhost

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 12:22 AM

Sweetsalem82103 on Apr 11 2008, 12:12 AM, said:

I love all your posts ironghost . . . They always give me something to think about.  grin2.gif


Wow, thank you so much.  If it can be said, "I made people think" .... well, my work here is done.

Many blessings, Sweet -- Golden Dreams to you, and wishing you adventure.



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#163    Amarali2012

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 09:04 AM

http://www.nvisible.com/ I am twenty-eight years of age, and I have believed in many of Solara's teachings for my entire life. The ultimate goal of this religion is very similar to my own. But because the methods are so pointless, I refuse to believe this religion is genuine or fact-based.


#164    Amarali2012

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 09:27 AM

Whether it is real or fake, it seems like some kind of spiritual stuff happens, it is evidently believable to those who participate.
[/quote]

If a person were to stare at a banana, they could suddenly decide they wanted it to be blue, not yellow. And if they wished hard enough, and convinced themselves, and truly believed, their mind would manifest a change in the color of the banana. The human mind is controlled by the power of our will, absolutely. If you believe in something long enough, to you, it IS real.
( I randomly chose a banana for the object while completely forgetting they had a place in this story! Laugh Out Loud!)


#165    IronGhost

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Posted 01 July 2008 - 05:01 PM

Amarali2012 on Jul 1 2008, 10:04 AM, said:

http://www.nvisible.com/ I am twenty-eight years of age, and I have believed in many of Solara's teachings for my entire life. The ultimate goal of this religion is very similar to my own. But because the methods are so pointless, I refuse to believe this religion is genuine or fact-based.



Thanks for your comments, Amarali.  

For the record, and lest there's any confusion -- I did not create Solara.

Another thing:  When you examine most major mainstream religions today, how may of them are "fact based"?  In fact, none of them are.  This does not seem to bother the billions of people who belong to these religions and live their lives by them.

But even if any particular religion was genuinely "fact based" -- this would be of little value.  Ironically, a religion based on "facts" is no better or worse than a religion based on fantasy.

If you think about this for a while -- you'll see it's true.

The religion I created is not necessarily fact based -- nor does it avoid certain "facts" -- such as they are.  The idea of whether something is "true" or "false" is irrelevant in the religion I created.

Edited by IronGhost, 01 July 2008 - 05:02 PM.


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