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I created a new world religion

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#181    IronGhost


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Posted 01 February 2010 - 05:11 PM

View PostCadetak, on 31 January 2010 - 05:56 AM, said:

Bin wanting to respond to this but didn't want to necropost, but since somebody already has(look at all the newbies you spawned :P)...

IronGhost, Not sure if you will ever check up on this thread again but just in case you do...

No offense but I have to say that your story is a bit odd in itself because of the fact that you where hired by these people for this job. Now I'm criticising your skills and abilities, you are indeed a brilliant writer and what not but wouldn't you agree that you seem like a random choice to be offered this type of job? And if you are the most qualified for this type of 'job' it seems kind of odd that they would hire only one person...I would expect, that in creating an effective false religion, one's best bet would be a colaberation of writers, marketing experts, advertisement, sociologists, psychologists, even theologist perhaps. Sure your special...but you can't be that special. One middle class income guy by himself being put in charge for a brand new religion?

That's all irrelevant however because I half expect your religion or better yet the experiment is the article itself. There are parts of your story that directly appeal to the UM audience such as conspiracy, aliens, and Ouji(sp?) boards that are just parts of the story that don't seem to have to with the point at all but seem to be included to sway the interest of the readership.

However I don't actually believe in those two claims I just made, but I have a real question. I understand you can't name or go into detail about your religion, but is it a 'religion' in the traditional sense? I mean is it just a religion in the sense that there is a website somewhere with the lessons and believers on message boards or is there actually something like church's of some form somewhere and communities existing in real life.

Hey, Cadatek, thanks for your post, and your kind words and thoughtful comments, I apologize for taking some time to get back to you to address your questions.

I'm also somewhat hestitant to comment to "necropost" as you say, especially in my own columns because I don't want people to think I am gaming the system for my own aggrandizement, but more than 18,000 people have read this column (and tens of thousands elsewhere on the Net, and this particular piece has produced just such a monstrous avalanche of e-mails that's it's simply impossible for me to answer everyone individually (sorry about that everyone), so this is a good way to provide answers to a lot of people at once, I hope.

Anyway, to your points:

Probably the last thing these people wanted was a team of experts working on this project because of the very nature of the project. If they would have had multiple psychologists, theologists, etc., as you say -- well, for every additional person you bring into the inside development of this religion, you create another weak link in the secrecy chain -- that is, another person who's silence you would have to worry about down the road.

As I said, the development of this project, or religion, was something that had to be limited to as extremely few "insiders" as possible -- and they wanted someone who could develop this organizational structure -- and then take that primary secret to his grave -- which is what I will do.

You also refer to my work as a "false religion." I realize that I said that I created my religion on "bull$**t, but I think calling it a "false religion" doesn't quite hit the mark. I would say my religion is as legitimate as any other existing religion today -- one could make the argument that any existing traditional religion is "false" -- and people do that every day.  For example, many Christians frequently call all kinds of other religions "false" all the time.

Recently Brit Hume of Fox News chided Tiger Woods for being a Buddhist, and strongly suggested that Woods' belief system was not adequate to deal with his person problems, that he should turn Christian etc.  So, I think you can see what I mean.  Any religion can be discounted as false -- but that's all a matter of opinion and faith, I suppose. No religuious system existent today is ultimately "provable". So in that regard, the religion I created is no different than any other -- not more legitimate or no more false than any other.

You also ask, "Why me?" I really don't know the answer to that, but I can provide some insight.

Much of my career, not all of it, but much of it has been spent working in the shadows, so to speak, as a ghostwriter, and over the years, I have developed a reputation inside the industry for being fiercly loyal and secretive about the people whose books I wrote, and which they wished to take full credit for. So that's the first thing they wanted.

Second, they wanted someone with a known track record for being able to create communications that would influence large numbers of people, and my background as a government public relations officer provided that. I also have an educational background in sociology.

So I wasn't really a "random choice." I was a known quantity within certain circles -- and I was recommended for the job by a past client who knew of these people, and knew what they wanted to accomplish, and my past client flet my abilities and background were a perfect match for this kind of work.

Third, as to my credentials for developing theological systems, that was something I had to prove and deliver -- and if the proof of my ability to do this beforehand was not known -- the proof was delivered in the final product and would be known afterword.

That is, they were taking a certain risk on me, but it wasn't really a risk, because if it turns out that I failed to develop a viable theological system, they would have been out some time and money, that's all. If I would have failed, I assume they would have sought eleswhere for expertise, and went with some kind of "Plan B." They have plenty of money.

So I let my work speak for itself. I developed a religious system, presented it to them, laid it out for them, I knew it would work, and upon learning the system I had created, they felt it would work too. So they were satisfied. If they were not satisfied, they could have tried something else.

You ask, would by religion be considered a religion in the "traditional sense." I think the answer to that is mostly "yes" although I would say that my system contains innovations never before seen in any other religious system. I think what is a traditional, legitimate religion and what is not is in the mind of the believer, so to speak.

Yes, I have seen at least two Web sites devoted to my new religion, and I have already seen a few attacking it -- which I anticipated, and actually, I hoped that others would attack my system, because that was part of the leveraging process that would help feed energy into the religion and keep it alive and growing.

I mean, that's just common sense. Beforehand, I throught: "All religious systems come under attack and criticism. So will mine. Therefore, what system can I put in place that will cause this to benefit my religion?"

And so I incorporated something for that, and I think it's working well.

So I hope I covered all the bases here and answered all of your questions, and those of others as well.

P.S. -- Yes, I realize that this is a kind of story that seems talor-made for the UM audience, but there's no mystery there. Way back in 9th Grade English class, one of the first things you learn about writing is to "know your audience." When you write something, you try to put it before the right audience. I felt UM was the perfect audience for this story.

Also, I've spent a lot of time on UM, and I find the people here to be not only amazingly skeptical, but among the toughest, smartest audience you can find anywhere. I didn't want to present this story to a bunch of gullible New Agers in some flaccid UFO rag or some other such publication -- I think the excoriating and often brutal and rankorous criticism throughout this thread proves what a tough audience this is -- which is my kind of audience.

I wanted to tell my story to people who would understand it.


#182    A Wise Hobbit

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:27 AM

This religion cannot exist.  This religion cannot exist because you say, "No one CAN be harmed by (my) new religion."  This simply can't be true no matter how you look at it.  This would mean that your religion is believed by everyone once it is introduced to them.  This has to be so, because if anyone disagreed with your religion then they could POSSIBLY be provoked to attack a member of your religion in honor of their religion.  Even if your religion was the belief that you are reading this article right now, someone would disagree, and with this dissidence comes dispute, and then POSSIBLY violence, which by your code, from your religion can't happen to any member.  

Also you could attempt to isolate followers of your religion from others that would dispute your religion completely (if that would be possible) to keep them from other harmful religious fanatics, but in doing so you must create a 100% safe path to this destination with no possibility of being harmed.  This I do not believe would be possible, there is always the possibility of harm, and perfection does not exist.  

Another way it could be believed and keep followers from harm is if no one talked about it ever and kept it completely secret, but in doing so no one, including the existing members would know of its existence.  But can you believe in something that you don't know about?  No, you cannot.  If I told you there is an insect that could grow to the exact size of my laptop and consume the world, and do many more specific, exotic and extravagant things ONLY I could conjure up could you believe it?  Yes, you could, now pretend I never said it, can you believe it now?  

Those are the only ways I believe this religion could exist without every person that heard of its existence immediately believing and practicing it.  Now you're saying, "Okay, so everyone believes this religion then?"  Yes that is what I am saying would have to happen for it to exist, but that can't happen.  Not even proven fact is believed by everyone, and not all proven fact should be believed.  This is why our world is constantly changing, try to find one thing that you believe everyone believes in, you won't be able to do it.  Some believe in Gods, deities, and otherworldly powers, while others do not.  Not even everyone in the world believes in their own existence, while most people do.  The same can be said about time, gravity, and many other laws of physics that are stated as undeniable fact, and yet many are still in disbelief.  There is nothing wrong with this, because without disbelief and question-asking we would not advance or change, may it be for the better or for the worse.

Another way out of this jam is by diving deeper into possible loop holes.  What if you just lied about no one being able to be harmed to your people, just how the bible states that faith in god can cure ailments.  If this is so, then we have no reason to believe any other claims you have or will make, including your supposed creation of a religion that cannot, by it's own definition exist in truth, but instead only in falsehood.  

Also many may say that you cannot make a religion based on falsehood because you state that, "My religion makes no false claims", but this isn't true because YOU IronGhost are making the claim that no one can be harmed by your new religion, not the religion.  This means that it is possible for you to lie about your religion, but your religion itself cannot,  meaning that your religion doesn't claim to keep its followers safe, but you do.  Which is a lie and cannot be true, and since you are a liar and the one convincing us that you have created a secret religion that you are not allowed to talk about on a website that is open to the public that you are indeed talking about should be enough to discredit anything you say on the topic.  It was a great story, and would be an even better religion if it in anyway could be possible with that added detail "No one can be harmed by (my) new religion."


Just because it's allowed in the country you live in doesn't make it ethical.  For example, you said "I live in a place called the United States of America, and in this land, we have something called freedom of religion.  We can practice any religion we want, or none at all.  We are also free to invent a new religion whenever we want to.  This is not frowned upon by my government....In fact, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States, Thomas Jefferson, invented a new religion... This was a perfectly ethical thing for Jefferson to do... What I did was 100% ethical."
Using the fact that what you did isn't against the law is no basis for you to claim that it is ethical.  At one time slaves were allowed to be owned, beaten, and even killed by law, is that ethical as well?

#183    Draconi


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Posted 21 May 2014 - 04:41 AM

Assuming this is a true story I believe I've found this religion, nice

#184    OverSword


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Posted 21 May 2014 - 06:57 PM

View PostDraconi, on 21 May 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

Assuming this is a true story I believe I've found this religion, nice
Name it. This story has been rolling around in my head since it was first posted and although I really find the whole thing believable I've never had a decent guess at what the new so-called religion is.

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