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New Black Hole


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#1    DONTEATUS

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 06:39 PM

rolleyes.gif Monster Black hole on forum ft pg,what a deal that is to wonder about. maybe a great thing to study for many years ,I think black holes are really the most interesting things out there next to et`s dont you just want to blow through one of those things in a can do machine? and come out say ? Well just to come out anywhere would be kool. lots of Ideas and spec,on what happens to matter and the like! Whos first? DONTEATUS grin2.gif  18 Billion suns? Wow! that a lot sun Block Im going to need to take with me! grin2.gif But what if we just have a look see through the rabbit hole and see ourselfs lookin out the other side saying just jump?

Edited by DONTEATUS, 20 March 2008 - 09:14 PM.

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#2    GUNNARY SEARGENT HARTMAN

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:08 PM

DONTEATUS on Mar 20 2008, 06:39 PM, said:

rolleyes.gif Monster Black hole on forum ft pg,what a deal that is to wonder about. maybe a great thing to study for many years ,I think black holes are really the most interesting things out there next to et`s dont you just want to blow through one of those things in a can do machine? and come out say ? Well just to come out anywhere would be kool. lots of Ideas and spec,on what happens to matter and the like! Whos first? DONTEATUS grin2.gif


It would, but then again, you wouldnt come out. Its impossible to survive a black hole, not even light can escape it, the laws of black holes state, that:

A black hole is a region of space in which the gravitational field is so powerful that nothing can escape after having fallen past the event horizon. The name comes from the fact that even electromagnetic radiation (e.g. light) is unable to escape, rendering the interior invisible. However, black holes can be detected if they interact with matter outside the event horizon, for example by drawing in gas from an orbiting star. The gas spirals inward, heating up to very high temperatures and emitting large amounts of radiation in the process.

While the idea of an object with gravity strong enough to prevent light from escaping was proposed in the 18th century, black holes, as presently understood, are described by Einstein's theory of general relativity, developed in 1916. This theory predicts that when a large enough amount of mass is present within a sufficiently small region of space, all paths through space are warped inwards towards the center of the volume, forcing all matter and radiation to fall inward.

While general relativity describes a black hole as a region of empty space with a pointlike singularity at the center and an event horizon at the outer edge, the description changes when the effects of quantum mechanics are taken into account. Research on this subject indicates that, rather than holding captured matter forever, black holes may slowly leak a form of thermal energy called Hawking radiation. However, the final, correct description of black holes, requiring a theory of quantum gravity, is unknown.


Also, the law of General relativity states that:

General relativity (GR) or General theory of relativity (GTR) is the geometric theory of gravitation published by Albert Einstein in 1915/16. It unifies special relativity, Newton's law of universal gravitation, and the insight that gravitational acceleration can be described by the curvature of space and time, this latter being produced by the mass-energy and momentum content of the matter in spacetime.

General relativity is distinguished from other metric theories of gravitation by its use of the Einstein field equations to relate spacetime content and spacetime curvature. The field equations are a system of partial differential equations whose solution gives the metric tensor of spacetime, describing its "shape". In the resulting geometry, an object moving inertially in a gravitational field is viewed as following a geodesic path that may be found using the Christoffel symbols of the metric. Solutions of the Einstein field equations model gravitating systems, especially important ones exhibiting spherical symmetry, notable examples being the Schwarzschild solution, the Reissner-Nordström solution and the Kerr metric.


Therfore, it would be impossible to survive a black hole according to laws of relativity and physics

Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN
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#3    Sun Raven

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 09:02 PM

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It would, but then again, you wouldnt come out. Its impossible to survive a black hole, not even light can escape it, the laws of black holes state


Never say "imposible", because you don't really know what we might be able to do in the future, we might be able to create a craft capable of surviving such journey, capable of surviving the "spaghettification" and the crew. Thing is, we don't know what happens once you cross the event horizon, sure we can't survive the gravitational pull of a black hole right now ( And as consequence "spaghettification"), but in the future, by the means of technology, if we are able to cross the event horizon, we will truely discover what happens next, right now we only have theories such as the wormhole theory, singularity, time travel, etc...

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#4    DONTEATUS

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 09:17 PM

how big is the other side of the black hole ,event horizon,thing singularity,mamas spegattiefriction thingy? can it be done?whos first? ohmy.gif DONTEATUS

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#5    Sun Raven

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 10:21 PM

DONTEATUS on Mar 20 2008, 10:17 PM, said:

how big is the other side of the black hole ,event horizon,thing singularity,mamas spegattiefriction thingy? can it be done?whos first? ohmy.gif DONTEATUS



The point at the center of a black hole is called a singularity. Within a certain distance of the singularity, the gravitational pull is so strong that nothing--not even light--can escape.That distance is called the event horizon. That is the reason why the black hole is dark, there is no light reaching your eyes because it is "absorbed" by the black hole. Remember, the reason why you can see, why you have vision, is because light reaches your eyes from either a light source (light bulb, sun, ect..) or it bounces of other objects, thats why you can see these objects, the light reaches the the object from a light source, part of this light is bounced off this object, reaching your eyes and so you can see it, in the dark there is not light source and so no light to bounce objects and so you cannot see. OK then, back to topic. The event horizon is not a physical boundary but the point-of-no-return for anything that crosses it. When people talk about the size of a black hole, they are referring to the size of the event horizon. The more mass the singularity has, the larger the event horizon. The structure of a black hole is something like this:

linked-image


A gravitational singularity ( this is the case of the black hole) is, approximately, a place where quantities which are used to measure the gravitational field become infinite. Such quantities include the curvature of spacetime or the density of matter. Yes, at the point of singularity, density and matter are infinite! Can you imagine that? According to general relativity, a black hole's mass is entirely compressed into a region with zero volume, which means its density and gravitational pull are infinite, and so is the curvature of space-time that it causes. These infinite values cause most physical equations, including those of general relativity, to stop working at the center of a black hole. So physicists call the zero-volume, infinitely dense region at the center of a black hole a singularity. The singularity in a non-rotating, uncharged black hole is a point, in other words it has zero length, width, and height. Amazing isn't it? How can something like that exist? original.gif But there is an important uncertainty about this description: quantum mechanics is as well-supported by mathematics and experimental evidence as general relativity, and it does not allow objects to have zero size—so quantum mechanics says the center of a black hole is not a singularity but just a very large mass compressed into the smallest possible volume. At present we have no well-established theory that combines quantum mechanics and general relativity; and the most promising candidate, string theory, also does not allow objects to have zero size.

Many people think that nothing can escape the intense gravity of black holes. If that were true, the whole Universe would get sucked up. Only when something (including light) gets within a certain distance from the black hole, will it not be able to escape. But farther away, things do not get sucked in. Stars and planets at a safe distance will circle around the black hole, much like the motion of the planets around the Sun. The gravitational force on stars and planets orbiting a black hole is the same as when the black hole was a star because gravity depends on how much mass there is--the black hole has the same mass as the star, it's just compressed.

Spaghettification is the stretching of objects into long thin shapes (rather like spaghetti) in a very strong gravity field, and is caused by extreme tidal forces. In the most extreme cases, near black holes, the stretching is so powerful that no object can withstand it, no matter how strong its components are (components used and found now). OK made simpler: Right now if you stand up, your feet and legs are suffering more gravitational force (gravity) than your head, this of course is no problem here on Earth, but on a black hole, the gravitational pull (how strong the force of gravity is when falling) is so strong that due your legs suffering more gravitanional force than your head, you get stretched, so strectched that each time you get longer and thiner, human spaghetti!!! grin2.gif

Don't you just love astronomy?  grin2.gif


Edit:


Here are a few links to some documentaries which will give you much better understanding of this subject, I really recomend them, trust me, when you have some time, take a look:

Supermassive Black holes Part 1

Supermassive Black Holes Part 2

Supermassive Black Holes Part 3

Supermassive Black Holes Part 4

Supermassive Black Holes Part 5

Edited by Alex01, 20 March 2008 - 10:31 PM.

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#6    GUNNARY SEARGENT HARTMAN

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 11:20 PM

Alex01 on Mar 20 2008, 09:02 PM, said:

Never say "imposible", because you don't really know what we might be able to do in the future, we might be able to create a craft capable of surviving such journey, capable of surviving the "spaghettification" and the crew. Thing is, we don't know what happens once you cross the event horizon, sure we can't survive the gravitational pull of a black hole right now ( And as consequence "spaghettification"), but in the future, by the means of technology, if we are able to cross the event horizon, we will truely discover what happens next, right now we only have theories such as the wormhole theory, singularity, time travel, etc...



Im sorry my friend but your living in a dream world if you think that nothing is impossible. Going anywhere near the sun for instance WILL kill you. There, there is one thing that is impossible, going near the sun. Im not thinking towards the future like you, Im thinking of the present, and at the moment, it is physically impossible for a galaxy or Universe to be created from a black hole, or a dead or dying sun, physically impossible at the moment.


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN

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#7    Sun Raven

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 10:21 AM

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Im sorry my friend but your living in a dream world if you think that nothing is impossible.



Please keep those comments to yourself.

Quote

Going anywhere near the sun for instance WILL kill you. There, there is one thing that is impossible, going near the sun. Im not thinking towards the future like you, Im thinking of the present


You didn't indicate that in your first post, and so the reason for my argument.

Quote

and at the moment, it is physically impossible for a galaxy or Universe to be created from a black hole, or a dead or dying sun, physically impossible at the moment.


Excuse me?

Let me inform you sir that I am here explaning theories accepted by the scientific community, I am in no way making this up, actually the ones who 'made this up' are Steven Hawking and Albert Einstein along with other well minded scientists, and it looks like you sir didn't know about this theories ( and so the reason for that absurd comment) so I suggest you inform yourself on this subject please.

The cores of stars more than about 6 times the mass of the sun reach a condition late in their lives where the fusion reactions in their cores are producing such a high flux of neutrinos that the neutrinos carry away badly needed energy from the core. This causes the core to collapse and heat up as the reactions 'burn' at higher temperatures. This produces more neutrinos and the process runs away. As the core collapses, the density increases so high that suddenly the neutrinos can't escape, and within a few hours the bottled up energy causes the star to detonate. This produces a reversed shock that compresses the core matter beyond its mechanical ability to support itself. When it reaches a size equal to the black hole horizon size for that mass, it becomes a black hole as it explosively sheds the rest of its mass in a supernova.

This is the explanation currently accepted by the scientific community, this is the current theory on the formation of black holes, please inform yourself on this subject before accusing me of being in "dreamland", if you would read a book you would find out who really is in "dreamland".

By the way, how can you say "physically imposible"? Do you even know what you are talking about? Do you know this has been proven by physics itself? Do you have any clue about physics? Obviously you don't, that's why I insist on you informing yourself on thus subject then we can open a debate, but with misinformation from your part, this is going no were. As a source of information I already provided with the documentary, that is a start. Another source of information is reading the whole page of wikipedia which you partially quoted.

Cheers.

Edited by Alex01, 21 March 2008 - 10:36 AM.

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#8    GUNNARY SEARGENT HARTMAN

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 02:58 PM

Alex01 on Mar 21 2008, 10:21 AM, said:

Please keep those comments to yourself.


You didn't indicate that in your first post, and so the reason for my argument.


Excuse me?

Let me inform you sir that I am here explaning theories accepted by the scientific community, I am in no way making this up, actually the ones who 'made this up' are Steven Hawking and Albert Einstein along with other well minded scientists, and it looks like you sir didn't know about this theories ( and so the reason for that absurd comment) so I suggest you inform yourself on this subject please.

The cores of stars more than about 6 times the mass of the sun reach a condition late in their lives where the fusion reactions in their cores are producing such a high flux of neutrinos that the neutrinos carry away badly needed energy from the core. This causes the core to collapse and heat up as the reactions 'burn' at higher temperatures. This produces more neutrinos and the process runs away. As the core collapses, the density increases so high that suddenly the neutrinos can't escape, and within a few hours the bottled up energy causes the star to detonate. This produces a reversed shock that compresses the core matter beyond its mechanical ability to support itself. When it reaches a size equal to the black hole horizon size for that mass, it becomes a black hole as it explosively sheds the rest of its mass in a supernova.

This is the explanation currently accepted by the scientific community, this is the current theory on the formation of black holes, please inform yourself on this subject before accusing me of being in "dreamland", if you would read a book you would find out who really is in "dreamland".

By the way, how can you say "physically imposible"? Do you even know what you are talking about? Do you know this has been proven by physics itself? Do you have any clue about physics? Obviously you don't, that's why I insist on you informing yourself on thus subject then we can open a debate, but with misinformation from your part, this is going no were. As a source of information I already provided with the documentary, that is a start. Another source of information is reading the whole page of wikipedia which you partially quoted.

Cheers.



Firstly, I said it was impossible for a universe to be created by a black hole? do you agree?



Secondly, It is impossible to go near the sun? do you agree?


Thirdly, there is no need to be shrewd, also, I dont disagree on the way you are saying black holes are created, am i? no. I am saying it is physically impossible, not in the sense of physics but as physical, as in touching, or feeling or creating something with your hands or another part of your body.


Futhermore, do you have a profession in physics? is it your job, if yes good for you, if not I dont really care how technical you want to be about any of this, I know how black holes and red dwarfs etc. are created, I think most people on the board know, there isnt a need to tell us. I was saying that Universes and Galaxies CANNOT BE CREATED FROM DEAD STARS!!! That is all I was saying, not disputing the fact on how black holes are created.


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN

P.S I do know about einsteins theory on general relativity and I do know about steven hawkins theorys on the creation of the universe and the way black holes are created etc. Unfortunately for you, you thought I diddnt, how wrong you are...

wink2.gif

Edited by GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN, 21 March 2008 - 03:01 PM.

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#9    greggK

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 03:10 PM

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General relativity (GR) or General theory of relativity (GTR) is the geometric theory of gravitation published by Albert Einstein in 1915/16. It unifies special relativity, Newton's law of universal gravitation, and the insight that gravitational acceleration can be described by the curvature of space and time, this latter being produced by the mass-energy and momentum content of the matter in spacetime.



Stephen Hawking is 10,000 times more believable than the murderer Albert Einstein!

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#10    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 03:19 PM

greggK on Mar 21 2008, 03:10 PM, said:

Stephen Hawking is 10,000 times more believable than the murderer Albert Einstein!

What! I rarely have a clue what you are on about gregg (and suspect that you don't either) but now you just seem to be spewing random junk. Is this a new tactic, instead of spreading total nonsense about science you are now going to spread random insults about dead scientists?

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#11    GUNNARY SEARGENT HARTMAN

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 03:35 PM

greggK on Mar 21 2008, 03:10 PM, said:

Stephen Hawking is 10,000 times more believable than the murderer Albert Einstein!


Lol, I cnt agree with you here, there both the same lol. Albert einstein...... I can just see him with a chainsaw and hockey mask.  innocent.gif  devil.gif  grin2.gif


Attached File  AlbertEinstein.jpg   57.97K   5 downloads



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#12    Ball Lightning

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 01:27 PM

Great thread. That sure is a lot of sun block! Thanks for posting.  original.gif


#13    ships-cat

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 01:54 PM

GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN on Mar 21 2008, 03:35 PM, said:

Lol, I cnt agree with you here, there both the same lol. Albert einstein...... I can just see him with a chainsaw and hockey mask.  innocent.gif  devil.gif  grin2.gif


Attached File  AlbertEinstein.jpg   57.97K   5 downloads

Pfffft... they are NOTHING alike.

So Albert was into Extreme Hockey ? Compare and contrast that to Hawkins' pastimes.

Hawkins (top) and Dr Strangelove (below).
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Co-incidence ?

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#14    bandot

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 04:05 PM

instead of spreading total nonsense about science why don't we agree about how massive the black hole, indeed the warm hole could be the one that useful.......


#15    DONTEATUS

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Posted 22 March 2008 - 05:43 PM

This is total science the human race of our lifes. the more we know the more we want to know.its like a black hole in its self. never never,  say quit! and never never say never. its up to mankind to finger it all out b4 we are ask to leave this wonderful planet. Just DONTEATUS laugh.gif

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