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Could Atlantis be under Greenland's Ice?


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#31    WiCkEdWENDIGO

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 07:59 PM

i think he is right and who is to say it isnt have u found atlatis? for all u know it could be under america from when plates shifted

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#32    Cradle of Fish

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 08:16 PM

WEREGIRL666 on Mar 25 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

i think he is right and who is to say it isnt have u found atlatis? for all u know it could be under america from when plates shifted


You do know it takes eons for continents to move right? Atlantis, if it existed, was destroyed less than 10,000 years ago, which is nothing on a geological scale.

Edited by Cradle of Fish, 25 March 2008 - 08:16 PM.

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#33    Shaftsbury

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 09:19 PM

Egyptian-Illuminati on Mar 25 2008, 10:38 AM, said:

Alright guys, here is what the world will look like with no arctic ice.



I think the world would be a bit more blue than you show there wouldn't it ?

From my understanding the seas would rise something like 200 feet?

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#34    questionmark

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 09:20 PM

Shaftsbury on Mar 25 2008, 11:19 PM, said:

From my understanding the seas would rise something like 200 feet?


not quite... but significantly....



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#35    Shaftsbury

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 09:45 PM

It looks like the map is corrected to +66 meters, if the source is right.

I won't need to dig out the rowboat quite yet but a few people might.

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#36    questionmark

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 09:47 PM

Shaftsbury on Mar 25 2008, 11:45 PM, said:

It looks like the map is corrected to +66 meters, if the source is right.

I won't need to dig out the rowboat quite yet but a few people might.


I start worrying at 400' +



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#37    rancour

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 04:56 AM

Egyptian-Illuminati on Mar 25 2008, 01:02 AM, said:

Greenland - the place where no one talks about, is covered by ice a couple miles thick, and only the outer layers of the island are habitable.

So, now that most of us (atleast me) are familiar with seasonal global warming, is it possible that at one time greenland actually got submerged from global warming? And then a cold snap, the ice age which brought sea levels back down, revealing the island's land? And maybe man actually settled on this island at the turn of the ice age, since we found human remains in north america dating well over 6 million years.

Maybe, just maybe man made a city on this island named Atlantis, and when the ice age receeded, it got swallowed up by the atlantic ocean, and the people had to abandon this place and settle in africa and north america.

Is it possible Greenland would have moved its position within 6 million years? Or was the weather very different then?

I just want researchers out there to develope some kind of 3D radar and to get foot long increments of the surface.

What do you think? Could it be under all that cold stuff?


i think atlantis is in BERMUDA TRIANGLE and not in GREENLAND... that's what I think


#38    Essan

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 07:18 AM

Egyptian-Illuminati on Mar 24 2008, 05:02 PM, said:

So, now that most of us (atleast me) are familiar with seasonal global warming, is it possible that at one time greenland actually got submerged from global warming? And then a cold snap, the ice age which brought sea levels back down, revealing the island's land? And maybe man actually settled on this island at the turn of the ice age, since we found human remains in north america dating well over 6 million years.


There are  no 6 million year old human remains anywhere on the planet.  Modern man is maybe 200,000 years old.  Earlier homonids such as Homo Erectus date back several million years, and did use basic stone tools, but they were not humans in the same way a domestic cat is not a lion.

Quote

Is it possible Greenland would have moved its position within 6 million years? Or was the weather very different then?


Greenland hasn't moved a great deal in 6 million years.  However it was much warmer there back then, before the lastest period of ice ages began.  However, there were no humans on the planet.  

During the last interglacial 115,000 years ago there may well have been a smaller ice sheet on Greenland than there is today.  And there are indications that around 400,000 years ago much of the ice sheet completely disappeared during an interglacial.  However, there were no humans to colonise it and, besides, why would they?

Given a choice of Africa - warm, sunny, teeming with game; Europe - warm, sunny, teeming with game and Greenland - colder, wetter, little game and require building a very big boat  to get to get there (and indeed, how would anyone know it was there?)  where would you - a stone using homo erectus - choose to live?

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#39    keithisco

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 08:25 AM

WEREGIRL666 on Mar 25 2008, 08:59 PM, said:

i think he is right and who is to say it isnt have u found atlatis? for all u know it could be under america from when plates shifted

I suggest you read Timaeus for the location of the imaginary Atlantis... this is a translation of the appropriate section:

Quote

Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.
Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits; and then, Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars.
But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island.
I have told you briefly, Socrates, what the aged Critias heard from Solon and related to us. And when you were speaking yesterday about your city and citizens, the tale which I have just been repeating to you came into my mind, and I remarked with astonishment how, by some mysterious coincidence, you agreed in almost every particular with the narrative of Solon; but I did not like to speak at the moment. For a long time had elapsed, and I had forgotten too much; I thought that I must first of all run over the narrative in my own mind, and then I would speak.


So, even by the original account, the legendary Atlantis sat in front of the Straits of Gibraltar (Pillars of Heracles). Not Greenland, the Americas, or anywhere else.

In the Critias dialogue Plato goes on to describe the fictional land in enormous detail, but it is still just a re-telling of a story.



#40    Mr Supertypo

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 04:26 PM

keithisco on Mar 28 2008, 09:25 AM, said:

So, even by the original account, the legendary Atlantis sat in front of the Straits of Gibraltar (Pillars of Heracles). Not Greenland, the Americas, or anywhere else.

In the Critias dialogue Plato goes on to describe the fictional land in enormous detail, but it is still just a re-telling of a story.


Yes, and we should also take in consideration that the pillar of hercules had been moved several times in the past, first time if im not mistaken it was south of greece, then it moved to the straits of sicily and then again to gibraltar. Now in the middle of the global age, it doesent make sense to move it again.

The only logic place, for atlantis, as i pointed out before, is the island of Thera.
It's the only island in the mediterran we know who has been devasted by earthquakes and volcano eruption, and part of the island got flooded.
It was a circular island with concentric circles. There was a florid advanced civilitation (the minoican) and after the destruction the minoic civilitation dissapered (perhaps thanks to a giant tsunami).

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#41    keithisco

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 09:19 AM

Lux Felix on Mar 28 2008, 05:26 PM, said:

Yes, and we should also take in consideration that the pillar of hercules had been moved several times in the past, first time if im not mistaken it was south of greece, then it moved to the straits of sicily and then again to gibraltar. Now in the middle of the global age, it doesent make sense to move it again.

The only logic place, for atlantis, as i pointed out before, is the island of Thera.
It's the only island in the mediterran we know who has been devasted by earthquakes and volcano eruption, and part of the island got flooded.
It was a circular island with concentric circles. There was a florid advanced civilitation (the minoican) and after the destruction the minoic civilitation dissapered (perhaps thanks to a giant tsunami).

As far as I am aware the Pillars of Heracles has always been referenced as The Straits of Gibraltar. I am not aware of it being located anywhere else, and Heracles is also noted (fictionally of course) for connecting the Atlantic and the Mediterranean whilst performing the feat of creating the pillars by smashing through the single mountain that supposedly blocked the Straits.

I am inclined to agree that Plato was retelling the story of Thera,  and the loss of the Minoan civilisation. If his claim was that the destruction happened 900 years, and not 9000 years before his birth then that would seem to tally.


#42    Mr Supertypo

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 10:22 AM

keithisco on Mar 29 2008, 09:19 AM, said:

As far as I am aware the Pillars of Heracles has always been referenced as The Straits of Gibraltar. I am not aware of it being located anywhere else, and Heracles is also noted (fictionally of course) for connecting the Atlantic and the Mediterranean whilst performing the feat of creating the pillars by smashing through the single mountain that supposedly blocked the Straits.

I am inclined to agree that Plato was retelling the story of Thera,  and the loss of the Minoan civilisation. If his claim was that the destruction happened 900 years, and not 9000 years before his birth then that would seem to tally.


The straits of Gibraltar became the pillar of Hercules under Alexander the great rule.

Before it was located between Libya and Terrine (thera) then it was moved toward the straits of Sicily and in the end moved to the modern location we all know.

http://www.lexiline.com/lexiline/lexi60.htm

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#43    The_Spartan

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 11:47 AM

Though it is fiction, David Gibbins's "Atlantis" also points out the location of "Atlantis" to be at Thera.

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#44    keithisco

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 12:26 PM

Lux Felix on Mar 29 2008, 11:22 AM, said:

The straits of Gibraltar became the pillar of Hercules under Alexander the great rule.

Before it was located between Libya and Terrine (thera) then it was moved toward the straits of Sicily and in the end moved to the modern location we all know.

http://www.lexiline.com/lexiline/lexi60.htm

I have been completely unbale to confirm your assertion that The Pillars were ever linked to anywhere other than the Straits of Gibraltar. I find no reference to Alexander the Great "relocating" the location.

I have followed your link to lexiline and find it just to be a personal belief that the Pillars were NOT the Straits. There is nothing to support the claim there.

Re-reading Timaeus (see extract below) it is quite apparent that Plato is referring to both the Atlantic Ocean for the location of Atlantis, and to The Straits of Gibraltar as being the Pillars of Herakles. I have read three translations of Timaeus and in all substantive points they concur.
The below is from the Project Gutenberg translation.

Timaeus Translation Link


Quote

[313]      histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition
[314]      against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end.
[315]      This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the
[316]      Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the
[317]      straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was
[318]      larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands,
[319]      and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which
[320]      surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of
[321]      Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a
[322]      real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless
[323]      continent.


It is actually fscinating re-reading these dialogues, I had forgotten just how rich the language used, was.


#45    jaylemurph

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 04:06 PM

keithisco on Mar 29 2008, 07:26 AM, said:

I have been completely unbale to confirm your assertion that The Pillars were ever linked to anywhere other than the Straits of Gibraltar. I find no reference to Alexander the Great "relocating" the location.


I can't come up with a particular source either, K, but I have heard more than once that as the Greeks explored the Mediterranean more, they moved the position of the Pillars of Hercules. I'd be hard-pressed to believe that Alexander was responsible, though.

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edit: Upon further consideration, K, I also can't say for certain that I didn't first read this in a cheap pseudo-historical book...

Edited by jaylemurph, 29 March 2008 - 04:08 PM.

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