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Could Atlantis be under Greenland's Ice?


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#451    Bonecrusher

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 February 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:



No, it's Rand Flem-ath's theory, nothing to do with "Hollow Earth".
Well I'm not surprised I'm wrong again.

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#452    Quaentum

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:41 PM

@Mario

Check out this article  http://www.scienceda...70705153019.htm

There is a part in there where they show that the southern part of Greenland was last free of ice 450,000 years ago.  That eliminates any posssibilty it was in a warmer climate during the time Atlantis was supposed to exist.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#453    Mario Dantas

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:39 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 14 February 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

@Mario

Check out this article  http://www.scienceda...70705153019.htm

There is a part in there where they show that the southern part of Greenland was last free of ice 450,000 years ago.  That eliminates any posssibilty it was in a warmer climate during the time Atlantis was supposed to exist.

Quaentum,

I believe there is a general dating error in geochronology! 450.000 years ago are nothing compared with the sheer number of years (billions) back to the beginning of times. If a sizable event ever took place, the dating would be fundamentally wrong, period! But that is just me talking...

I hope you would agree that, *if* something as large as Atlantis ever disappeared from the north Atlantic, there would be some sort of change in the understanding of the geologic time scale. It is a logic conclusion, since Atlantis does not exist, as far as we know...

In my view that article only speaks volumes of an Atlantis in Greenland. Lush forests, huge amounts of mud, and furthermore, all this happened in the period of an "All land is ice". A Lushly forested environment thrived in Greenland when the ice was at its highest peak, in the Quaternary?


Posted Image
http://earthobservat...ology_IceCores/

Quote


Ice-core samples of ancient sediment

The icecap itself is comprised of pure ice, but the lower sections are mixed with mud from the bottom, and it was this mud that Eske Willerslev wanted to research.
http://www.scienceda...70705153019.htm

The mud within the ice is also totally coincident with Plato's Atlantis demise:

Quote

when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean.
http://classics.mit....to/critias.html

I have read some articles, about it, but it is still not known how it got there in the first place, rock sand and silt...

Regards,
Mario Dantas

Edited by Mario Dantas, 14 February 2013 - 11:44 PM.

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#454    Quaentum

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 09:43 PM

IO find this part most interesting as it shows three different methods of measuring and thsy all agree

Quote

The ice-core researchers are experts at analysing the fine dust which blows onto the ice and is preserved year by year. They advocate two further datings.

One is dating by optically stimulated luminescence. It is a method where the examined minerals can be affected to give off a type of light, which depends on how long it has been since the minerals were last exposed to sunlight.

The other method is radioactive dating. "We can fix when the ice was last in contact with the atmosphere," says Jørgen Peder Steffensen who is a researcher in the Ice and Climate group at the Niles Bohr Institute at Copenhagen University. He explains that the special isotopes, Beryllium-10 and Chlorine-36 both have a particular half-life of radioactive decay (just like Carbon-14). The relation between them can date when the ice and dust were buried and no longer came in contact with the atmosphere.
The dating of dust particles also showed that it has been at least 450,000 years ago since the area of the DYE-3 drilling, in the southern part of Greenland, was ice-free.


AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#455    Abramelin

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:01 PM

That makes Greenland go out to the exit concerning it being "Atlantis".

Same with Crete/Thera, Antarctica, South America, Doggerland, and whatever location.

If we can't find it in the Atlantic, as Plato suggested where it should be, then it simply never existed.


#456    Mario Dantas

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:21 PM

Quaentum and Abramelin,

At last you struck a chord...

I will try to make an analogy, before the angle blade fall on my head!

If you hand scoop up a certain amount of snow, and you could establish a dating for the layers of snow that supposedly was dug, it would not mean that the snow accumulated there (on the shovel) since the beginning, right? the snow on the shovel did not fall on the shovel itself but was dug up from a certain "environment".

Likewise, Greenland's "shovel" shape (being surrounded by mountains and having a central plain), could have "scooped" an ancient ice that existed and confined it within its "walls"... Is it not strange that the actual age of the ice being around 100.000 years, is somewhat young, compared with "older" sediment samples found dating 18 million years...18 million years???

Quote

The Greenland ice sheet (Kalaallisut: Sermersuaq) is a vast body of ice covering 1,710,000 square kilometres (660,235 sq mi), roughly 80% of the surface of Greenland. It is the second largest ice body in the world, after the Antarctic Ice Sheet. The ice sheet is almost 2,400 kilometres (1,500 mi) long in a north-south direction, and its greatest width is 1,100 kilometres (680 mi) at a latitude of 77°N, near its northern margin. The mean altitude of the ice is 2,135 metres (7,005 ft).[1] The thickness is generally more than 2 km (1.24 mi) and over 3 km (1.86 mi) at its thickest point. It is not the only ice mass of Greenland – isolated glaciers and small ice caps cover between 76,000 and 100,000 square kilometres (29,344 and 38,610 sq mi) around the periphery. Some scientists predict that climate change may be near a "tipping point" where the entire ice sheet will melt in about 2000 years.[2] If the entire 2,850,000 cubic kilometres (683,751 cu mi) of ice were to melt, it would lead to a global sea level rise of 7.2 m (23.6 ft).[3]

The Greenland Ice Sheet is also sometimes referred to under the term inland ice, or its Danish equivalent, indlandsis. It is also sometimes referred to as an ice cap. "Ice sheet" is considered the more correct term, as "ice cap" generally refers to less extensive ice masses.[citation needed]

The ice in the current ice sheet is as old as 110,000 years.[4] The presence of ice-rafted sediments in deep-sea cores recovered off of northeast Greenland, in the Fram Strait, and south of Greenland indicated the more or less continuous presence of either an ice sheet or ice sheets covering significant parts of Greenland for the last 18 million years. From just before 11 million years ago to a little after 10 million years ago, the Greenland Ice Sheet appears to have been greatly reduced in size. The Greenland Ice Sheet formed in the middle Miocene by coalescence of ice caps and glaciers. There was an intensification of glaciation during the Late Pliocene.[5]

The weight of the ice has depressed the central area of Greenland; the bedrock surface is near sea level over most of the interior of Greenland, but mountains occur around the periphery, confining the sheet along its margins. If the ice disappeared, Greenland would most probably appear as an archipelago, at least until isostasy lifted the land surface above sea level once again. The ice surface reaches its greatest altitude on two north-south elongated domes, or ridges. The southern dome reaches almost 3,000 metres (9,843 ft) at latitudes 63°65°N; the northern dome reaches about 3,290 metres (10,794 ft) at about latitude 72°N. The crests of both domes are displaced east of the centre line of Greenland. The unconfined ice sheet does not reach the sea along a broad front anywhere in Greenland, so that no large ice shelves occur. The ice margin just reaches the sea, however, in a region of irregular topography in the area of Melville Bay southeast of Thule. Large outlet glaciers, which are restricted tongues of the ice sheet, move through bordering valleys around the periphery of Greenland to calve off into the ocean, producing the numerous icebergs that sometimes occur in North Atlantic shipping lanes. The best known of these outlet glaciers is Jakobshavn Isbræ (Kalaallisut: Sermeq Kujalleq), which, at its terminus, flows at speeds of 20 to 22 metres or 65.6 to 72.2 feet per day.
http://en.wikipedia....nland_ice_sheet

I spent one day trying to make time to answer this (and think about it too)... the ice part is one hell of impeachment, i know. But this is what i can say right now....

How come 30 m of silty ice exist underneath Greenland's ice? Why isn't there any whatsoever soil between the ice and the bedrock? Was there something that "strired" things up?

Quote

As the drill neared the bottom it began to bring up "silty ice" that had mud and small pebbles entrained within.  After about 30 meters of silty ice had been extracted, the drill encountered bedrock and was able to bore into the rock and bring up samples(...)
http://mikespage13.t...gram/index.html


Posted Image

Quote

Figure 3 shows a cross-section of Greenland, with part of the ice cut away (exaggerated vertical scale). Unlike the Arctic sea ice, this ice is sitting on rock
http://co2.cms.udel....SeaLevel_DE.htm

Regards,
Mario Dantas

Edited by Mario Dantas, 16 February 2013 - 11:28 PM.

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#457    Mario Dantas

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:15 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 February 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

That makes Greenland go out to the exit concerning it being "Atlantis".

Same with Crete/Thera, Antarctica, South America, Doggerland, and whatever location.

If we can't find it in the Atlantic, as Plato suggested where it should be, then it simply never existed.

Abramelin,

The question we should ask is not actually where it was but where it is now, because according to Plato it moved somewhere, disappearing from where it once stood.

Quote

Wegener's arguments led to heated controversy about continental drift in the 1920's and 1930's. Opponents regarded the idea of continents moving about through solid rock as so preposterous that they ignored all his other arguments, many of which, it is now clear, were essentially correct.
http://www.platetect...rticle.asp?a=18

Regards,
Mario Dantas

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#458    Abramelin

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:26 PM

View PostMario Dantas, on 19 February 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Abramelin,

The question we should ask is not actually where it was but where it is now, because according to Plato it moved somewhere, disappearing from where it once stood.


http://www.platetect...rticle.asp?a=18

Regards,
Mario Dantas

Yes, Plato indeed said it moved... to below sea level, not sailed to the north and remain above seal level.

You compare the 'opposition' against your theory with the opposition Wegener received, but at least he did come up with a sound theory.

This is not just about people resisting a new theory, it's about a theory that doesn't explain what is supposed to have happened.

And again I say: if Greenland did move from in front of the Strait of Gibraltar to where it is now, we would most probably have discovered traces of large scale devastation around the Atlantic.


#459    Quaentum

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:45 PM

View PostMario Dantas, on 16 February 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

Quaentum and Abramelin,

At last you struck a chord...

I will try to make an analogy, before the angle blade fall on my head!

If you hand scoop up a certain amount of snow, and you could establish a dating for the layers of snow that supposedly was dug, it would not mean that the snow accumulated there (on the shovel) since the beginning, right? the snow on the shovel did not fall on the shovel itself but was dug up from a certain "environment".

Likewise, Greenland's "shovel" shape (being surrounded by mountains and having a central plain), could have "scooped" an ancient ice that existed and confined it within its "walls"... Is it not strange that the actual age of the ice being around 100.000 years, is somewhat young, compared with "older" sediment samples found dating 18 million years...18 million years???


http://en.wikipedia....nland_ice_sheet

I spent one day trying to make time to answer this (and think about it too)... the ice part is one hell of impeachment, i know. But this is what i can say right now....

How come 30 m of silty ice exist underneath Greenland's ice? Why isn't there any whatsoever soil between the ice and the bedrock? Was there something that "strired" things up?


http://mikespage13.t...gram/index.html


Posted Image


http://co2.cms.udel....SeaLevel_DE.htm

Regards,
Mario Dantas


Your scoop analogy isn't valid because approximately 95% of Greenland's coast is raised at least 500 m (1600+ ft).  Even if Greenland were moving, because most of the coast is raised, it wouldn't scoop up the Ice on the water but would just push it aside.

It is also invalidated due to insects in the core sample being 450,000 years old.  If Greenland were scooping ice, the insects would be around 12,000 years old.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#460    Abramelin

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:46 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 19 February 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

It is also invalidated due to insects in the core sample being 450,000 years old.  If Greenland were scooping ice, the insects would be around 12,000 years old.

I think that alone should settle it.


#461    Quaentum

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:19 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 February 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

I think that alone should settle it.

One would think.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#462    dadatheking

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:59 PM

Atlantis is Antarctica. but it was flash frozen. look it up that is all......................................


#463    Abramelin

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:02 PM

We "looked it up", and we read Rand Flem-Ath's book (I have his book, btw), and it is a nice theory, but it doesn't take into account the results of the latest ice core and rock samples.

That aside of Antarctica not being in front of the Pillars of Hercules.

Or not submerged.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 21 February 2013 - 07:12 PM.


#464    Mario Dantas

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:21 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 19 February 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Yes, Plato indeed said it moved... to below sea level, not sailed to the north and remain above seal level.

You compare the 'opposition' against your theory with the opposition Wegener received, but at least he did come up with a sound theory.

This is not just about people resisting a new theory, it's about a theory that doesn't explain what is supposed to have happened.

And again I say: if Greenland did move from in front of the Strait of Gibraltar to where it is now, we would most probably have discovered traces of large scale devastation around the Atlantic.


Abrameilin,

In the words of Herman Melville, in «Moby Dick»: “I try all things, I achieve what I can.”

Yes, i am aware of the many problems with my theory or whatever you want to call it. I think i am simply trying to follow a path...

My «theory» exists within the thought experiment i am trying to construct. It is not a nice full package, but i guess i am making progresses. My theory predicts a great deal of structural geologic systems. It is fully based on scientific data, Plato aside...

There is an explanation for everything, believe me, Whether people like it or not, there will be known that a large island stood in front og Gibraltar! If Greenland moved from the straits to where it is now located, as you put it, there would not only be traces of large scale devastation around the Atlantic (again in your words), but also «traces» of this devastation all over the planet, and there are.

You will probably laugh, if i tell you that not everything has been said here regarding the «theorization» of an Atlantis in Greenland. I have no time to put my thoughts together, i am still researching for a definite evidence.

The davastation which you referred is such a collossal «pit» that i just can't seem to be able to think about it, at times. Sea levels rose 120 m at the end of the Pleistocene, that should be the smoking gun...

Regards,
Mario Dantas

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#465    Mario Dantas

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:05 AM

View PostQuaentum, on 19 February 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

Your scoop analogy isn't valid because approximately 95% of Greenland's coast is raised at least 500 m (1600+ ft).  Even if Greenland were moving, because most of the coast is raised, it wouldn't scoop up the Ice on the water but would just push it aside.

It is also invalidated due to insects in the core sample being 450,000 years old.  If Greenland were scooping ice, the insects would be around 12,000 years old.


I do not know why you got that idea, but IMO since throughout the Last Glacial Maximum (during the Quaternary glaciation) the existing ice reached thicknesses of 4 km, thus, it would seem rather credible for Greenland to have «scooped up»:a large portion of that ancient ice.

Posted Image


Northern Hemisphere glaciation during the Last Glacial Maximum. The creation of 3 to 4 km (1.9 to 2.5 mi) thick ice sheets caused a global sea level drop of about 120 m (390 ft).

http://en.wikipedia....nary_glaciation



Regarding the bugs trapped within the ice, i disagree that they would be only as old as 12.000 years. Whatever got trapped would become and actually is an unsuspitioned part of the old whole Pleistocenic ice that existed, and consequently, all the dating could have been done on samples that were ripped off from the larger body of ice, as i had stated in the analogy.

Regards,
Mario Dantas

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com




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