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Could Atlantis be under Greenland's Ice?


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#91    The Puzzler

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 05:06 AM

Egyptian-Illuminati on Apr 5 2008, 04:54 AM, said:

No, where is your proof. Is there any relations at all from Plato that its in the black sea? It was stated "Atlantic Ocean", and therefore Atlantis and Atlanteans.
I do not for a second believe Atlantis is under the black sea...... i do however believe there are sunken cities.

I gave my proofs in my long post that I had thought about. Where is yours that Atlantis is ACTUALLY in the Atlantic Ocean?


Here's some more reading: (Don't take it too seriously though, I'm just throwing in food for thought) The ancient Greeks called Crimea Tauri - lots of clues there. Tauri - Taurus - bull - bull people - Taurus is one of the oldest constellations, if not the oldest.  There is evidence of advanced tools and more of Neanderthals,  being excavated recently on Crimea. Look at the history of Neanderthals and bulls.......also we see in the sky Orion the Hunter next to Taurus the bull - hunting the bull or bull-people, the Neanderthal.........something there? maybe.

Edited by weareallsuckers, 05 April 2008 - 05:30 AM.

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#92    keithisco

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 09:30 AM

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name='weareallsuckers' date='Apr 5 2008, 12:54 AM' post='2230430']
We should. And you have such great knowledge do you? lol I see you in Plato's tale......one of those who thinks they are so knowledgable but in reality, is not at all. A true Sophist. Come off your pedestal J, it will do you the world of good my friend.


You may wish to mock J's knowledge, by inference the suggestion is that your own knowledge is far superior: I suggest you try a little humility yourself and then perhaps you will also find yourself on the true path to wisdom.


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The mediterranean is just the harbour spoken of - the Black Sea is the Atlantic Ocean in his tale.


You make it excrutiatingly painful when you wantonly ignore the factual elements in Timaeus. Plato knew the difference between the Atlantic and the Black Sea.

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What the greeks thought they knew and what was legend is history told by the Egyptian priest could be 2 totally different things


There is NO other record of this story from any Egyptian writings.

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you take it all too literally and try to connect it up with facts, which you don't even know are part of the time frame in the piece Plato is speaking.


Plato gave specific locations in his tale,  which were not subject to any equivocation (Such as the Pillars of Hercules, the Atlantic Ocean), and if we now say they were not real then, none of the rest of his tale can be considered to hold any veracity at all.




#93    The Puzzler

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 11:36 AM

keithisco on Apr 5 2008, 07:30 PM, said:

You may wish to mock J's knowledge, by inference the suggestion is that your own knowledge is far superior: I suggest you try a little humility yourself and then perhaps you will also find yourself on the true path to wisdom.

lol, I am most humble, I assure you, J and I  speak enough now for him to know how that is meant to be taken....he knows I am ignorant...and very sarcastic.



Quote

You make it excrutiatingly painful when you wantonly ignore the factual elements in Timaeus. Plato knew the difference between the Atlantic and the Black Sea.

I don't believe I said otherwise. His readings of Herodotus would have shown him that, even then, in Herodotus' writings the Atlantic Ocean is only briefly mentioned as being outside the Pillars. It was a place unknown apart from the West Coast of Africa that had 'possibly' been navigated at this time. You could look at it as 'unknown'.

Don't forget Plato was not writing a history book, he was writing a fictional tale telling of examples of virtue and wisdom being trying to be tempted by evil and immorality and how we should be aware of our ignorance, only when this happens to we become wise. Just like Plato's teacher Socrates learnt. It is based on known knowledge and mythology in the form of a riddle asking us a vital question...(pretty much like another story of this ilk, the Bible)It is a riddle,  it is not a lesson in geography. It's about a war within ourselves. I have a whole thread of this stuff - my own theory about how Solon is the pinnacle of the story. He's not the story teller, he's the story. His life is the culmination of what Plato is looking for for a comparison.
As far as angels go, Psyche, Eros' consort, only gained her wings when she had 'earned the divinity by her devotion and perseverance.'
Angels are the devoted souls to a God (Originally a Goddess, Aphrodite).  A dedication to love.

Quote

There is NO other record of this story from any Egyptian writings.

big suprise...



Quote

Plato gave specific locations in his tale,  which were not subject to any equivocation (Such as the Pillars of Hercules, the Atlantic Ocean), and if we now say they were not real then, none of the rest of his tale can be considered to hold any veracity at all.

Pretty much sums it up........

You can add in Greek God myths all the way throughout it.
Example:
Athens vs Atlantis
Athena - virtuous and wise - vs Atlantis of which Poseidon was king
Do you know the story of how Athena became ruler of Athens? Because of her contest (battle) with Posiedon, who was the most immoral of all the Gods.
Athena - Goddess of wisdom and Athens, daughter of Zeus and Metis.
Poseidon - brother of Zeus who got the oceans in the Battle of the Titans.

That's the main background to it all.

If you looked at the work geographically the island he describes could be Azores when the water level was much lower, it's on a major fault line joining 3 plates. Has the features of what it looked like, Plato would have had no idea of it unless of some obscure mention of it somewhere, I don't believe from the way I see Plato write there is any island in the Atlantic that was Atlantis. If anything I believe he may be referring to eastwards towards the Indian Ocean and on to the Pacific when he mentions island divers and that you reach another continent via this direction. But that's just conjecture.

Having said that what I meant by the Crimean Peninsula is that all roads lead to there in many ways, some I mentioned in my post before. Jason and the Argonauts also crossed to the other side of the Black Sea in very ancient times or legendary times, that's where all the tzales of that story come from. The whole thing is very complex.

I do think that it contains reference to historical places and happenings but not in the way we know them as histories. Messages are all through it, whats the message in each event is what you need to concentrate on and how it compares to the war in us to achieve winning by virtue to achieve a 'perfect state' which in reality when you strip the whole lost city of Atlantis mumbo jumbo away is essentially what it's about.

As far as angels go, Psyche, Eros' consort, only gained her wings when she had 'earned the divinity by her devotion and perseverance.'
Angels are the devoted souls to a God (Originally a Goddess, Aphrodite).  A dedication to love.


It ends when Zeus spake as follows: but there is nothing, why? because it is the Judgement - did we make the right choice? To live good and virtuous lives, educating ourselves and gaining the wisdom needed to go to Heaven or did the forces of evil take over our state and now we shall suffer in Hell. (Hades myth with Tantalus & Tartarus) Tantalus went to Hell after some impiety. He was then tantalised. Tantalis - rearrange the letters and what do you get?
Do you 'see the truth'?

Edited by weareallsuckers, 05 April 2008 - 01:03 PM.

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#94    jaylemurph

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 04:15 PM

weareallsuckers on Apr 4 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

We should. And you have such great knowledge do you? lol I see you in Plato's tale......one of those who thinks they are so knowledgable but in reality, is not at all. A true Sophist. Come off your pedestal J, it will do you the world of good my friend.


I dunno. I stand by the work I did to get my degrees in historical studies. They reflect the fact that I actually do know what I'm talking about: you can tell by the way I use, you know, facts to back up my argument. There's a substantial difference between saying (for instance) "the Greeks knew the Euxine Sea and the Atlantic Ocean weren't the same thing" and then citing a Greek author who /says/ so and saying "Orion and Taurus were the same thing because my tortuous pet theory dictates they should be". Clearly it's not a difference you appreciate, but I think I'm not alone in recognizing it.

And before you say I'm not knowledgeable again, remember that I threw down a Greek myth you apparently didn't know about the birth of Orion that does more to support your odd little fancy than anything you were able to come up with.

--Jaylemurph

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#95    The Puzzler

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 04:32 PM

jaylemurph on Apr 6 2008, 02:15 AM, said:

I dunno. I stand by the work I did to get my degrees in historical studies. They reflect the fact that I actually do know what I'm talking about: you can tell by the way I use, you know, facts to back up my argument. There's a substantial difference between saying (for instance) "the Greeks knew the Euxine Sea and the Atlantic Ocean weren't the same thing" and then citing a Greek author who /says/ so and saying "Orion and Taurus were the same thing because my tortuous pet theory dictates they should be". Clearly it's not a difference you appreciate, but I think I'm not alone in recognizing it.

And before you say I'm not knowledgeable again, remember that I threw down a Greek myth you apparently didn't know about the birth of Orion that does more to support your odd little fancy than anything you were able to come up with.

--Jaylemurph

whatever.......like I said, this is all becoming tiresome....everyone is so serious. Didn't you see my answer to keithco.

I am so bored here I have to entertain myself with my own little pet theories.
So it's OK to mock my knowledge but me not to mock yours....typical.

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#96    jaylemurph

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 04:55 PM

weareallsuckers on Apr 5 2008, 11:32 AM, said:

whatever.......like I said, this is all becoming tiresome....everyone is so serious. Didn't you see my answer to keithco.

I am so bored here I have to entertain myself with my own little pet theories.
So it's OK to mock my knowledge but me not to mock yours....typical.


Wait wait wait.

I'm not mocking knowledge. I'm not even mocking ignorance. What I'm pointing out are theories with nothing to back them up that try to claim parity with theories that do have something to back them up. It was you, I believe, that came out swinging about what I know and don't know. And I think it's a worthwhile challenge to prove, so it doesn't bother me if you ask things like that.

I've even said before that I don't have a problem with this kind of baseless, errant speculation if it keeps where it belongs (like the poorer kind of sci-fi). It's just when people want them to have equal dignity with actual historical work just because they're more interesting or just because someone personally like them, not because they answer questions or make sense of the information we have, that I speak out about them.

--Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph, 05 April 2008 - 04:58 PM.

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#97    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 12:21 AM

jaylemurph on Apr 6 2008, 02:55 AM, said:

Wait wait wait.

I'm not mocking knowledge. I'm not even mocking ignorance. What I'm pointing out are theories with nothing to back them up that try to claim parity with theories that do have something to back them up. It was you, I believe, that came out swinging about what I know and don't know. And I think it's a worthwhile challenge to prove, so it doesn't bother me if you ask things like that.

I've even said before that I don't have a problem with this kind of baseless, errant speculation if it keeps where it belongs (like the poorer kind of sci-fi). It's just when people want them to have equal dignity with actual historical work just because they're more interesting or just because someone personally like them, not because they answer questions or make sense of the information we have, that I speak out about them.

--Jaylemurph

OK, again, whatever. You will see my dig at you and your facts regarding your knowledge was a bit of a joke, I even lol in it, sorry you and keithisco saw it as serious, it really wasn't meant to be.....I am sarcastic, that's my warped humour.

Listen, that's all well and good to go by facts, I am a logical, factual person too believe it or not, many times I'm just exploring avenues of thought, tell me, how do you prove or make a fact that Atlantis is an anagram of tantalis(e)? That's my conclusion, that the tale of Atlantis is nothing more than a riddle on how we avoid being tempted (or tantalised into) going to Hell. It's along thse lines. With some upturned historical events, Solon's travels and myth thrown it. So, how do I prove this???

Edited by weareallsuckers, 06 April 2008 - 12:22 AM.

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#98    bobxxx

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 01:24 AM

sorry not possible glaziers on greenland are,nt miles thick only metres and at the current rate of global warming will soon be cm


#99    jaylemurph

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 01:53 AM

weareallsuckers on Apr 5 2008, 07:21 PM, said:

OK, again, whatever. You will see my dig at you and your facts regarding your knowledge was a bit of a joke, I even lol in it, sorry you and keithisco saw it as serious, it really wasn't meant to be.....I am sarcastic, that's my warped humour.

Listen, that's all well and good to go by facts, I am a logical, factual person too believe it or not, many times I'm just exploring avenues of thought, tell me, how do you prove or make a fact that Atlantis is an anagram of tantalis(e)? That's my conclusion, that the tale of Atlantis is nothing more than a riddle on how we avoid being tempted (or tantalised into) going to Hell. It's along thse lines. With some upturned historical events, Solon's travels and myth thrown it. So, how do I prove this???


This is exactly what I mean, WAAS. You need to find out the facts before you spin them into an elaborate theory that's not going to stand to scrutiny.

The verb "to tantalise" (or -ize, whichever) doesn't exist in Greek. (Well, there is a verb for what it is, but it's not an eponym from Tanatalus...) In fact, it's not even a very old English word. It's from 1597 or so. And the name Tantalus doesn't have anything to do with Atlantis; it's from a common PIE word for "to bear" or "to carry".

So to answer your question, you /can't/ prove the connection between Atlantis and name Tantalus because it doesn't really exist.

bob*** on Apr 5 2008, 08:24 PM, said:

sorry not possible glaziers on greenland are,nt miles thick only metres and at the current rate of global warming will soon be cm


No, the glaciers in Greenland are almost 2 kilometers deep. That's a mile and then some.

--Jaylemurph

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#100    eckasha

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 05:27 AM

I would love to have the time to fully explain atlantis and it's two sinkings (28000BC&9558BC), but I don't right now.
Many of you are full of energy and thats good to see.
Other intersting things around Atlantis is how it sunk Lemuria 50000BC and how it has been the root of all major civilizations since then and the reason for 911 the war in Irac, the philly ex, pearl harbour/nagasaki-Hiroshima. as well as much more.
It may tantalize your atlantis tastebuds to nibble on the faCT THAT MAJOR PORTIONS OF THE aTLANTEAN MANTLE THAT WAS DESTROYED And fell benieth the ocean is no longer there. It is being held (against it's will) in a "Hybernation Zone" which physically resides in our atmosphere high above the earth, as well as within our crust in the "Aquifers" below surface.
You won't find this anywhere else. Especially not sourced from Cayce or the likes



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#101    Magnatude

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 06:36 AM

Hmm... I'd say if anything, The entire North and South America is this "Atlantis" and perhaps "Lemuria".

Its obvious that some portions of the area has had its share of sinking lands, it has a lot of ruins all over it, and its this "size" of what was being claimed here in the thread. Its been inhabited by a massive temple-building civilizations with clearly a people who have mastered the movements of the stars far beyond that of any nation at the known times.
Mayans perhaps are the descendants or remnants? Or perhaps they are an older civilization than we assume?

Are we perhaps so blind to the obvious solution? Can we see the forest through the trees?

Meteorites of Campo del Cielo:Impact on the indian culture

Edited by Magnatude, 06 April 2008 - 06:43 AM.


#102    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 07:30 AM

jaylemurph on Apr 6 2008, 11:53 AM, said:

This is exactly what I mean, WAAS. You need to find out the facts before you spin them into an elaborate theory that's not going to stand to scrutiny.

The verb "to tantalise" (or -ize, whichever) doesn't exist in Greek. (Well, there is a verb for what it is, but it's not an eponym from Tanatalus...) In fact, it's not even a very old English word. It's from 1597 or so. And the name Tantalus doesn't have anything to do with Atlantis; it's from a common PIE word for "to bear" or "to carry".

So to answer your question, you /can't/ prove the connection between Atlantis and name Tantalus because it doesn't really exist.

--Jaylemurph

OK J, I'll take that on board. I have no idea about Greek language so will sit on that one. Let's look at it another way: The overall premise is the same anyway. Virtuous tempted by evils, you see it in both first woman on Earth, Pandora and Eve who let the evils into the world. Fighting the evil by being wise, knowledgable, staying virtuous and truthful. Overcoming it and being in the place one is meant to be. The perfect state. In ourselves or comparable to Heaven. Immorality and untruth will take you to Hell.  Which is the war battled in Atlantis stories. Poseidon ruled Atlantis, the most immoral God of all. etc etc Let's just say Greek myths and Plato's Atlantis story align very well with the Bible. They align even better with Greek mythology of Plato's day.
That's it. I don't even really worry that Tantalis is an anagram of Atlantis. Even that it does align now in this day and language is even more of an enigma. Coincidence? Maybe...
So unless there is something in written records from Egypt that tell of a civilisation such as this on an island such as it - I don't think it's Greenland.......
And as I said Plato was not a historian or writing a geography lesson. It's way more deep than that.


Have you seen my own thread on Plato, Solon and Atlantis -My Theory. OK it's not a 'scientific theory' nor back up by 'facts' but even Harte admitted it was certainly a good parallel there.

It is backed up however by lots of research using my own brain, using clues and historical events, meetings, places and myth all bound together to basically be a moral riddle we must answer.

Some stuff I may not be quite so rigid in some parts now and new things I've discovered add to it all, it's a complex analylas in a way but it becomes clear that he couldn't be writing about anything else really..

Let me ask you this, what do you think Atlantis represents?

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#103    The Puzzler

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 07:46 AM

Magnatude on Apr 6 2008, 04:36 PM, said:

Hmm... I'd say if anything, The entire North and South America is this "Atlantis" and perhaps "Lemuria".

Its obvious that some portions of the area has had its share of sinking lands, it has a lot of ruins all over it, and its this "size" of what was being claimed here in the thread. Its been inhabited by a massive temple-building civilizations with clearly a people who have mastered the movements of the stars far beyond that of any nation at the known times.
Mayans perhaps are the descendants or remnants? Or perhaps they are an older civilization than we assume?

Are we perhaps so blind to the obvious solution? Can we see the forest through the trees?

Meteorites of Campo del Cielo:Impact on the indian culture

I had a deep interest in Atlantis and still have but now I've changed sides on it, J can vouch for how much I really believed it being an island continent as described by Plato, having done heaps of research I really don't think it is BUT I will say I think The Americas would be the top spot of the continent mentioned, with the Azores being the islands that were the hop across over to them in ancient times, it could have been done. I am an advocate of ancient seafaring too, but in the context of the story by Plato I don't see him using it as a basis for Atlantis, an unknown continent beyond the Pillars yes, possibly, what is spoken of how it looked and was, no.

Edited by weareallsuckers, 06 April 2008 - 09:29 AM.

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#104    dmgspycat

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 11:41 PM

When looking for Atlantis or any civilisation that existed 10000 BC keep in mind that the poles were not in the same position they are now. Although close, this left habitation of Greenland and Antarcticas outer edges habitable. Both are able to support advanced civilisations through mining, farming and were far enough away from other countries thus preventing war or invasion from hostile neighbors unlike the Ise of Thera. Atlantis was accross a vast ocean outside the Pillars of Hercules unlike Thera which was basically right next to Greece in the Med.

I have a few questions pertaing to ancient civilisation. Have there been any dives on the continental shelves of either Antarctica or Greenland in search of civilisations? Why? Because there are about 10 spots on the earth right now recently discovered all under about 40-60 feet of ocean water. Where? Japan, Cuba, Bahamas to name a few...each one has statues and a temple of some type. I was thinking if Antarctica or Greenland had a civilisation at one time they would be near the coast under water that shared the same fate as these other places now under water.

Also, another idea I had was this. Mountain ranges on both these continents in question might offer clues to civilisation too. If we could get under the ice we might find some of these caves today with either skeletons of people or ancient dinosaur bones in them. Either way it would be a great archeological find. I scour the web of archeological digs like this and strangley there are absolutely no records of any archeological digs in either antarcticas or greenlands mountain ranges. The 1st place I would want to look of I was an archeologist. Caves/caverns would serve as a tomb for whatever life was lost during a great cataclysm. Thoughts?

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#105    Egyptian-Illuminati

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 04:34 PM

This is what ive been saying all along..... there have been sooo many underwater cities found, its 100% possible we will find this city somewhere on this planet underwater/under ice..

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