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#16    bleedingelite

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 12:13 PM

We've kinda bastardized the concept of karma and turned it into a trendy western buzzword.

There are four eastern religions that I know of that use karma: Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. Mostly, karma to them relates to the afterlife. It's not about pissing in somebody's rosebushes and then having the wind blow a rock through your window. It's about pissing in somebody's rose bushes and being reincarnated as a lower being, or being reincarnated in the buddhist hell, or having your soul too weighed down to ascend.

We, over here, have turned it into a suffix of the golden rule: "Do unto others, because it will come back to you." A lot of new age stuff like wicca even says that things will come back to you threefold, or some junk.

Here's what I think happens: Things statistically tend to even out. Most of us are going to simply experience some good and some bad in life. You can blame the bad on whatever will make you feel better, but crap happens. And where the real trick is lies in how you perceive events. If you focus solely on the negative, it will seem like an extraordinary number of bad things happen to you, but really it's about the same as everybody else, but maybe you've made some bad choices too. Like, if you make fun of people, people aren't going to like you as much and life will be a little rougher. Is that some mystical force? No, it's how socialization works.

Or maybe it's sometimes self fulfilling prophecy. You feel guilty about something, so subconsciously you feel the need to punish yourself. Or the guilt distracts you from a task and there are consequences. Either way, there's no reason to blame an Eastern Mystical force that's being taken completely out of context to begin with.


#17    Wallydraigle

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 03:01 PM

bleedingelite on Apr 16 2008, 07:13 AM, said:

We've kinda bastardized the concept of karma and turned it into a trendy western buzzword.

There are four eastern religions that I know of that use karma: Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. Mostly, karma to them relates to the afterlife. It's not about pissing in somebody's rosebushes and then having the wind blow a rock through your window. It's about pissing in somebody's rose bushes and being reincarnated as a lower being, or being reincarnated in the buddhist hell, or having your soul too weighed down to ascend.

We, over here, have turned it into a suffix of the golden rule: "Do unto others, because it will come back to you." A lot of new age stuff like wicca even says that things will come back to you threefold, or some junk.

Here's what I think happens: Things statistically tend to even out. Most of us are going to simply experience some good and some bad in life. You can blame the bad on whatever will make you feel better, but crap happens. And where the real trick is lies in how you perceive events. If you focus solely on the negative, it will seem like an extraordinary number of bad things happen to you, but really it's about the same as everybody else, but maybe you've made some bad choices too. Like, if you make fun of people, people aren't going to like you as much and life will be a little rougher. Is that some mystical force? No, it's how socialization works.

Or maybe it's sometimes self fulfilling prophecy. You feel guilty about something, so subconsciously you feel the need to punish yourself. Or the guilt distracts you from a task and there are consequences. Either way, there's no reason to blame an Eastern Mystical force that's being taken completely out of context to begin with.


Exactly.  You can demonstrate the silliness of the Western hippie idea of karma with a simple thought experiment.  Say a little girl was tormenting her cat.  She's now got bad karma coming back at her because of what she did.  Later that day, her dad gets drunk and hits her in the face because he's a mean ahole.  There's her bad karma come to get her, right?  So, since her dad got drunk and smacked her in the face in accordance with the will of the universe, he's exempt from any bad karma he would have otherwise had coming because of this, right?  So when the neighbors call the cops on him and he goes to jail and gets prison raped, that must be bad karma for something else.  What did the cat do to get its tail pulled in the first place?  Did it eat a mouse and enjoy killing it a little too much?  Did the mouse eat an acorn that would have grown into a mighty oak tree otherwise?  What could the tree have possibly done to warrant bad karma before it ever sprouted?  Does the sodomizing inmate have any bad karma coming for balancing all this?  If you really stop and look at it the whole thing comes apart.  It's goofy.  Why spend your life looking over your shoulder because something bad you did is coming after you?

Edited by Wallydraigle, 16 April 2008 - 03:02 PM.


#18    v3ss

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 03:40 PM

From the teaching of Buddha on Karmic laws

Law of Karma forgives Creatures with lesser intelligent . Animals are regarded as lower intelligent beings and predators have to kill prey for their survival .
So their killing for survival do not have karmic effect.

Karma do not effects to young children who cannot decide what is right or wrong.

Effects of Karma differs in Degrees of Consciousness on the actions.

for action that give bad karma, For Instance ,

If you hurt somebody accidentally , and you do not know it , it will give very minimal or no bad karmic effect

If you hurt somebody accidentally and you know its going to happen , but you do not avoid it , it have greater effect

If you hurt somebody , Deliberately , this action Give you greater karmic effect . You will suffer something worse than what you did

And , Ultimately If you hurt somebody Deliberately , and You enjoy doing it , you do not feel any guilt in doing it , it gives you the worst karmic effect . That will be enuf for you to go to hell if you die .

The way bad karma effect can be immediate , if you do not have done any good actions/deeds before  , you will suffer what you did in very near future.
But will be delayed , if you have done good deeds before. It will let you enjoy good deeds until those good deeds ran out. Then , you will suffer bad karma.



I now truly believed karma after dramatic events during my love life.

To tell my  story short ,

4 years ago , i have dumped a girl who love me truly and so much , she is completely innocent and so good to me
Soon after i dumped her ,  i get another girl and lived together with her for 3 years then , suddenly she changed , she cheated me with another guy who she met online.

As soon as i know that she cheated  me , its comes into my mind suddenly that  "oh , i have suffered what i did before. I have hurt someone who loved me so much "

But amazingly , the b**** who cheated me got suffered by what she did after a week .
That guy , who she cheated with , have dumped her after a week without any good reason . (he flew all the way from US to Bangkok to  meet her btw )  and cheated her , dating with her best friend .

She was so shocked and tried to say sorry me but i do not let her come back to me anymore.

Then , i go back to the girl that i dumped . I told her everything about what happened to me . And i apologized her .
She accepted my apology and amazingly she is still waiting for me to come back without having any BF for 4 years (and we do not have any single contact during that time)!!

now we are very happy with each other now, i am loving her so much too , knowing that nobody can be as good as her , on me.









#19    Pluto-x

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 04:33 PM

Totally believe in it. What goes around comes around.




#20    Lightning88

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 07:50 PM

Quote

Exactly. You can demonstrate the silliness of the Western hippie idea of karma with a simple thought experiment. Say a little girl was tormenting her cat. She's now got bad karma coming back at her because of what she did. Later that day, her dad gets drunk and hits her in the face because he's a mean ahole. There's her bad karma come to get her, right? So, since her dad got drunk and smacked her in the face in accordance with the will of the universe, he's exempt from any bad karma he would have otherwise had coming because of this, right? So when the neighbors call the cops on him and he goes to jail and gets prison raped, that must be bad karma for something else. What did the cat do to get its tail pulled in the first place? Did it eat a mouse and enjoy killing it a little too much? Did the mouse eat an acorn that would have grown into a mighty oak tree otherwise? What could the tree have possibly done to warrant bad karma before it ever sprouted? Does the sodomizing inmate have any bad karma coming for balancing all this? If you really stop and look at it the whole thing comes apart. It's goofy. Why spend your life looking over your shoulder because something bad you did is coming after you?


omg,that was a little extreme dont you think? messing with a cat does not ok violence to children.

if a grown man killed a cat then got punched then thats karma.a girl playing with her cat and getting beaten is a ridicules comparison,shame on you.

Quote

Totally believe in it. What goes around comes around.


i like that saying too,props.


#21    stevemc2

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 08:58 PM

Sho_Sho on Apr 11 2008, 02:47 PM, said:

I was speaking with a friend the other day that has been going through some really hard times these days. Every time she turns around something bad is happening to her. Its all things that are completely out of her control that are happening.

We got to talking about Karma, and she said maybe its coming back to get her for something she did?

That got me wondering if its real? If good and bad can really come back to you through Karma. I use to believe in Karma but have lost faith in it myself. I have,  seen too many bad people thrive in life and people, who are good, never seem to get a hand up from Karma.

Does anyone have any examples about Karma, and how it helped or hurt you


Hmmm...I think one can short-circuit this Karma, if Karma is thought of as bad things happening in this life resulting from bad deeds, tell your friend to do something good over the weekend, like  volunteer at a homeless shelter, or donate to a charity, or similar, to negate whatever bad deeds causing the Karma.

On the other hand, my own experience with Karma, or luck, or fate, is that we make our own luck, the key is to be aware, if you try and make your own luck, be aware and you'll see the opportunities, the worst thing about it is to do nothing and not be aware.  

I'm curious how it turns out, please reply here or send me a pm...


#22    Pluto-x

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Posted 18 April 2008 - 09:08 PM

I've just seen too many things happen in another persons life besides my own where it will come back to you. I'm not the perfect human being. But I have had the most horrific  last couple of months, and couple of years. Between losing friends, losing loved ones, break ups, my financial situation in the dumps etc; I have had a hell of a ride. Trust me... and I think its stemming from not treating certain family members of mine so well. I noticed when I took a positive thing, it started to turn into a bunch of good things. Maybe it shouldn't be called Karma. But whatever it is, I believe that if you do harm or bad things to someone, it will definitely bite you in the butt 10 fold. I see it happening to my father, and now onto me. I won't share my personal life on these forums, but you get the point?

Now I am a school bus driver. I hope by helping disability or broken children helps gain some good karma. I've been a bus driver for 3 years and its changed my outlook on things. I'm also a ghost hunter. I try to help lonely spirits or ones that are stuck. I hope to gain something for that too. I'm basically trying to put right into things to make up where I did wrong. I hope that I receive good karma for it.

So yeah, what you dish out, you have to take back. What goes around comes around... what you give is what you get.




#23    bleedingelite

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Posted 19 April 2008 - 04:25 PM

Pluto-x on Apr 18 2008, 05:08 PM, said:

I've just seen too many things happen in another persons life besides my own where it will come back to you. I'm not the perfect human being. But I have had the most horrific  last couple of months, and couple of years. Between losing friends, losing loved ones, break ups, my financial situation in the dumps etc; I have had a hell of a ride. Trust me... and I think its stemming from not treating certain family members of mine so well. I noticed when I took a positive thing, it started to turn into a bunch of good things. Maybe it shouldn't be called Karma. But whatever it is, I believe that if you do harm or bad things to someone, it will definitely bite you in the butt 10 fold. I see it happening to my father, and now onto me. I won't share my personal life on these forums, but you get the point?

Now I am a school bus driver. I hope by helping disability or broken children helps gain some good karma. I've been a bus driver for 3 years and its changed my outlook on things. I'm also a ghost hunter. I try to help lonely spirits or ones that are stuck. I hope to gain something for that too. I'm basically trying to put right into things to make up where I did wrong. I hope that I receive good karma for it.

So yeah, what you dish out, you have to take back. What goes around comes around... what you give is what you get.


See, I've seen too much in life and thought too much about it to come to any other conclusion than karma is a load of crap. There are just way too many inconsistencies in it. And there are perfectly mundane explanations for bad things happening to people.


#24    darkbreed

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 02:46 AM

I'd say karma is real in the sense that if you do bad things you'll have bad things coming back at you, it's a pretty basic and easy to understand concept, just as if you do good things good things come back.

It relates to the Law of Attraction as well as already mentioned Cause and Effect.

Of course what is good and what is bad can be discussed and interpreted in different ways, but the universal spiritual laws are in effect just as the normal physical laws, and through understanding oneself and how these laws works one can change ones life for the better.

To put it short there are two main principles that is good to follow: Do to other's what you want other's to do to yourself, and have a positive mindset meaning focus on good things and stuff you like instead of the negative things and things you don't like.

Both physical actions as well as mental actions (thoughts) are "causes" to what manifests in your life (the "effects").

It's pretty easy to see that this is true as you just have to try live in accordance with those principles to see it.

Regarding karma passing over from possible past lives I'm not really sure about though, and even if it would I''m sure it could be turned good by living in accordance with the mentioned principles.

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#25    20SEP2008

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 04:04 AM

darkbreed on Apr 21 2008, 02:46 AM, said:

I'd say karma is real in the sense that if you do bad things you'll have bad things coming back at you, it's a pretty basic and easy to understand concept, just as if you do good things good things come back.

It relates to the Law of Attraction as well as already mentioned Cause and Effect.

Of course what is good and what is bad can be discussed and interpreted in different ways, but the universal spiritual laws are in effect just as the normal physical laws, and through understanding oneself and how these laws works one can change ones life for the better.

To put it short there are two main principles that is good to follow: Do to other's what you want other's to do to yourself, and have a positive mindset meaning focus on good things and stuff you like instead of the negative things and things you don't like.

Both physical actions as well as mental actions (thoughts) are "causes" to what manifests in your life (the "effects").

It's pretty easy to see that this is true as you just have to try live in accordance with those principles to see it.

Regarding karma passing over from possible past lives I'm not really sure about though, and even if it would I''m sure it could be turned good by living in accordance with the mentioned principles.


Very nicely stated. Bravo.



#26    bleedingelite

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 03:23 PM

darkbreed on Apr 20 2008, 10:46 PM, said:

I'd say karma is real in the sense that if you do bad things you'll have bad things coming back at you, it's a pretty basic and easy to understand concept, just as if you do good things good things come back.

It relates to the Law of Attraction as well as already mentioned Cause and Effect.

Of course what is good and what is bad can be discussed and interpreted in different ways, but the universal spiritual laws are in effect just as the normal physical laws, and through understanding oneself and how these laws works one can change ones life for the better.

To put it short there are two main principles that is good to follow: Do to other's what you want other's to do to yourself, and have a positive mindset meaning focus on good things and stuff you like instead of the negative things and things you don't like.

Both physical actions as well as mental actions (thoughts) are "causes" to what manifests in your life (the "effects").

It's pretty easy to see that this is true as you just have to try live in accordance with those principles to see it.

Regarding karma passing over from possible past lives I'm not really sure about though, and even if it would I''m sure it could be turned good by living in accordance with the mentioned principles.


Except it's not real. There are lots and lots and lots of bad people doing bad things who live incredibly rich lives. In fact, our society encourages doing whatever you have to in order to make as much money as possible, and the people at the top of our society have had to do their share of cheating, lying, stealing, and god knows what else, to get there. Sure, these people have problems. You might say that these bad things are "coming back to them" in the form of an STD, or a tax audit. But those "bad things" are nothing compared to the horrors suffered by millions of good people.

Good people die horrible deaths every day. There are good people in the millions all around the world stewing in their own fecal matter, desperately fighting off parasites and watching their loved ones succumbing to diseases. There are good people waking up to find their family smeared on the ground across the room, and several machine gun barrels aimed inches away from their groggy, sleep-crusted eyes.

If there IS a kind of karma, it affects the Samsaric rebirth like it was originally stated to in its original context.  

As far as the Law of Attraction goes, that's simple psychology, despite what Oprah's Magical Book Club tells us. Thinking positively affects subconscious functions and boosts self esteem, thus enabling a person to act with greater confidence and focus more on positive outcomes rather than wallow in negative repercussions.

"Do to other's what you want others to do to yourself" is a functional societal rule. It keeps order, it promotes empathy, and it leaves open the implied second half of the statement, i.e. "Or else nobody will like you or aid you in your times of need and you will not mesh very well with your society, but feel free to try and go it alone, jerk."

"Of course what is good and what is bad can be discussed and interpreted in different ways, but the universal spiritual laws are in effect just as the normal physical laws, and through understanding oneself and how these laws works one can change ones life for the better."

Okay, first of all, there is no indication whatsoever that we operate under some mystical "universal spiritual laws." It's a nice thought, and there are a number of various religions who preach various sets of universal spiritual laws, but I can't buy it. And I have a hard time taking people seriously when they use words like "universal," especially if that person hasn't even left our own planet's atmosphere.


Personally, I think this karma thing is a bunch of fluffy new age bull.


#27    Foongus

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 04:01 PM

BiffSplitkins on Apr 15 2008, 03:15 PM, said:

Well, now THAT's not good Karma to think that way... LOL

I totally beleive in Karma grin2.gif That's why my favorite TV show is My Name is Earl.

linked-image


Hmm, Im not a fan of that show. Quite boring, and they only have a couple funny parts.

Anyway, karma in a sense is real. If you do something good, something good will head your way. If you do something bad, something bad will happen. But this is an exageration. Good and bad things happen ALL THE TIME. Its very easy to link two things together. For example, I helped someone pick up some books that they dropped; a few days later someone helped me carry something that I couldnt carry alone. I can link those 2 things together because theyre similar. But is that to say it was karma? Or is it because good things and bad things will always happen to people? I think its a little bit of both.

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#28    NoahJaymes

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 04:34 PM

Karma is definitely real, unless everything in my life is coincidence and naturally sucky lol


#29    darkbreed

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 01:34 AM

Rich does not equal happy or good destiny ahead.

And the suffering of those good people you talk about is, in my opinion, mostly due to them not living by the laws and principles I mentioned. It is of course also possible that the mentioned past-life karma is reason to their current misfortune as well.

Personally I've lived on both sides of "good" and "bad", "poor" and "rich" etc, and also tested these principles and I am now living as much as I can in accordance with them and it gives me all the greatness I have, to me there is no doubt about the mind manifesting reality for us as I live my life the way I do which proves it for me on a daily basis.

Oh and regarding your comment about leaving the earths atmosphere I've done that as well =)

Anyway it's up to you to believe it or not, or try it out or not to figure out if it's possibly real. Works for me and works for others at least so I'm happy I came across that understanding.

bleedingelite on Apr 21 2008, 04:23 PM, said:

Except it's not real. There are lots and lots and lots of bad people doing bad things who live incredibly rich lives. In fact, our society encourages doing whatever you have to in order to make as much money as possible, and the people at the top of our society have had to do their share of cheating, lying, stealing, and god knows what else, to get there. Sure, these people have problems. You might say that these bad things are "coming back to them" in the form of an STD, or a tax audit. But those "bad things" are nothing compared to the horrors suffered by millions of good people.

Good people die horrible deaths every day. There are good people in the millions all around the world stewing in their own fecal matter, desperately fighting off parasites and watching their loved ones succumbing to diseases. There are good people waking up to find their family smeared on the ground across the room, and several machine gun barrels aimed inches away from their groggy, sleep-crusted eyes.

If there IS a kind of karma, it affects the Samsaric rebirth like it was originally stated to in its original context.  

As far as the Law of Attraction goes, that's simple psychology, despite what Oprah's Magical Book Club tells us. Thinking positively affects subconscious functions and boosts self esteem, thus enabling a person to act with greater confidence and focus more on positive outcomes rather than wallow in negative repercussions.

"Do to other's what you want others to do to yourself" is a functional societal rule. It keeps order, it promotes empathy, and it leaves open the implied second half of the statement, i.e. "Or else nobody will like you or aid you in your times of need and you will not mesh very well with your society, but feel free to try and go it alone, jerk."

"Of course what is good and what is bad can be discussed and interpreted in different ways, but the universal spiritual laws are in effect just as the normal physical laws, and through understanding oneself and how these laws works one can change ones life for the better."

Okay, first of all, there is no indication whatsoever that we operate under some mystical "universal spiritual laws." It's a nice thought, and there are a number of various religions who preach various sets of universal spiritual laws, but I can't buy it. And I have a hard time taking people seriously when they use words like "universal," especially if that person hasn't even left our own planet's atmosphere.


Personally, I think this karma thing is a bunch of fluffy new age bull.



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#30    bleedingelite

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 12:24 PM

darkbreed on Apr 21 2008, 09:34 PM, said:

Rich does not equal happy or good destiny ahead.

And the suffering of those good people you talk about is, in my opinion, mostly due to them not living by the laws and principles I mentioned. It is of course also possible that the mentioned past-life karma is reason to their current misfortune as well.

Personally I've lived on both sides of "good" and "bad", "poor" and "rich" etc, and also tested these principles and I am now living as much as I can in accordance with them and it gives me all the greatness I have, to me there is no doubt about the mind manifesting reality for us as I live my life the way I do which proves it for me on a daily basis.

Oh and regarding your comment about leaving the earths atmosphere I've done that as well =)

Anyway it's up to you to believe it or not, or try it out or not to figure out if it's possibly real. Works for me and works for others at least so I'm happy I came across that understanding.


Rich might not equal happy, but it's certainly likelier to mean happiness than life-threatening poverty.


And the suffering of those good people you talk about is, in my opinion, mostly due to them not living by the laws and principles I mentioned.

You do realize that you're talking about millions, probably billions, of people, right? It's possible that almost all of the people living in horrible war-torn poverty have earned their bad karma in past lives, but it's also asinine to think so. Especially when a lot of their suffering is caused by humanity in the first place. And if you're going to tell me that a poor kid in kenya with an infected open wound that's speedily rotting his leg is happier than a ruthless multi millionaire business man, I'm not going to be able to take you seriously.

And as far as your leaving the atmosphere comment goes, I'm not going to consider astral projection as a valid experience there, because it's quite possibly a hallucination. But if you're saying that you were part of a space program and that you've been suited up and strapped into a rocket and launched into orbit, then that's pretty cool.

And I HAVE tried it out. I've thought about it a lot. And my conclusion is presented in my arguments, which are logical and valid.





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