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Socrates meets Jesus


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#16    gonzowalker

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 07:37 AM

That was definately interesting. I'll have to print that out for some of my "Holy roller" friends to read devil.gif  

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#17    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 09:02 PM

QUOTE (Naveed @ Feb 15 2004, 07:12 PM)
if Jesus was supposed to be perfect and sin free, what do you call the incident at the market? God's wrath? I thought anger was a type of sin.....

vengeful, hateful, rash, and envious anger are sins. righteous anger is not.  devil.gif  


#18    Kismit

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 09:27 PM


Talon ,
I figured, being the grown up, I had better come up with a more mature response than DAH!! allthough I did like that response , it didn't exactly do me any justice in the intellectual stakes , so here goes ...
I am well aware of who Socrates was and may not be fluent in his style and philosphies but know enough to able to carry a conversation if the need ever was to come up . Infact that's my philosophy you see 'allways know enough about everything to be able to hold a conversation but never so much that you become the expert .'
  My post  was more an expression of my own distaste toward the 'God is real God is not real' debate thing that appears to be flooding the board these days .
I must say I was amused and enjoyed the first third of the conversation , but after that I realised that it was written by some one with an allready extreme predjudice toward christian based religions , and for me that took the fun out of it .
So there ya go a far more intelligent response , and I feel better for it ... thumbsup.gif  


#19    Loque

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 10:07 PM

That was long and boring, but in some areas very funny

Heh

Pray tell, what do they look like, these angels?


Jesus:
They have wings.


Socrates:
So do gnats........

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#20    Talon

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 11:36 PM

QUOTE
I
I am well aware of who Socrates was


Oh I wasn't arguing that when I posted, you stated that they did not actually speak and I was simply adding background info which I knew from studying the man. I was adding to your comment, not attacking it.

QUOTE
My post was more an expression of my own distaste toward the 'God is real God is not real' debate thing that appears to be flooding the board these days .


Well religion is one of the biggest unexplained mysteries if you think about it  tongue.gif

QUOTE
I must say I was amused and enjoyed the first third of the conversation , but after that I realised that it was written by some one with an allready extreme predjudice toward christian based religions , and for me that took the fun out of it .


I disagree, the answer sites well with what Socrates himself would have answered, lets remember Socrates believed in gods, but he did not believe in the religion of his city nor others, he went with a more spiritual aproach because he beleived that not all the religions could be true. As for the questions, they are simply pointing out contradictions, and although I do think it was written by an athiest, if you remove the sarcastic tone the arguement does remain.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#21    joc

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Posted 16 February 2004 - 11:39 PM

QUOTE
the answer sites well with what Socrates himself would have answered


True and on that I give it an A.   But it didn't answer well at all with what Jesus
would have said and that is why the thing is such a load of crapola.  

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#22    Talon

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 12:25 AM

Since the site is not attempting to say that it is an official text you can't simply writr it of as crapola simply cause Jesus didn't win the arguement  tongue.gif  

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#23    Fluffybunny

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 12:46 AM

This is the same kind of material that can be found on all of the religious threads on this and many other boards. It happens again and again.

One group uses logic, the other magic/mystical. The two are never going to mix. Discussions may start out nice enough, but in the end it comes down to faith. Western religious beliefs require a degree of faith to be accepted. There is nothing wrong with that, and whatever works for a person is wonderful. Logical folk generally measure evidence and believability on a different scale than do religious folks. Neither is necessarily wrong, just different.

The logical folk question religious beliefs using some degree of logic to try and understand the belief system of the religious folks. Western religion is not based on any logic, and can't really be answered in a logical scientific manner so it seems to generate more and more questions, leading to more illogical answers... round and round you go until the thread is locked...


Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#24    Seraphina

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 01:01 AM

Well....debate or no debate, I will say I found that a very entertaining read altogether grin2.gif As one sided as some people are claiming it to be, most of 'Jesus'" answers were the very responses I've seen and read during our own debates huh.gif

I'm not going to get into the "is it true/not true" aspect, since that's been done to death, and I'm rather bored of it all...but I do think whoever wrote that deserves a medal for sheer comic genius grin2.gif  

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Apparantly, over on Exchristian.Net, they say that I'm "probably the smartest person" on UM....that is so cool...

#25    Talon

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 02:15 AM

QUOTE
round and round you go until the thread is locked...


Indeed, but we are getting our post no. increased for ecentially saying the same thing over and over  tongue.gif  

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#26    joc

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 02:36 AM

QUOTE
Since the site is not attempting to say that it is an official text you can't simply writr it of as crapola simply cause Jesus didn't win the arguement  tongue.gif


You are still missing the whole point I am trying to make....idiotic agruments like
that were exactly what the Pharisees and Scribes used trying to 'trip up' Jesus.
He saw through their guile and always turned it around ....have you ever read the
New Testament?  Just wondering.


QUOTE

The logical folk question religious beliefs using some degree of logic to try and understand the belief system of the religious folks.


You make a mistake when you try and segregate folks that way.  You seem to
be saying that one cannot be a 'logical thinker' and follow a religion at the
same time.   I disagree.

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#27    Fluffybunny

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 03:41 AM

QUOTE (joc @ Feb 16 2004, 06:36 PM)
You make a mistake when you try and segregate folks that way.  You seem to be saying that one cannot be a 'logical thinker' and follow a religion at the same time.  

I disagree.

I don't.

You are welcome to your opinion. It is my personal opinion that logic and most western religions don't mix well. They are not mutually exclusive, but pretty close. As I said earlier, faith is primary factor of western religions, not logic.

Folks that judge evidence using logic and critical thinking aren't going to be able to see eye to eye with most religions. There is a degree of mysticism that occurs in the bible that defies logic. Religious followers take on faith that the what the bible says is correct.  On the other end of the spectrum are people who may not necessarily believe or understand said faith. Neither is necessarily right or wrong, that is just how people are.

There is a huge gulf between the faith necessary of christianity and logic/scientific thinking. Some folks may be able to suspend those critical thought processes in order to accept a given religion as their own, but I am not sure to what degree of success.

I am not interested in getting into a religion bashing debate; everyone has been good about that up to now. Some religions works well for some people, and that is great. I am just saying that there are two completely different thought processes when discussing evolution and creationism, and the two aren't going to be able to see any common ground...



Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#28    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 03:57 AM

I think Jesus in this article sounds more like a modern christian evangelist rather than Jesus described in the NT. tongue.gif


#29    joc

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 04:06 AM

QUOTE
I am not interested in getting into a religion bashing debate; everyone has been good about that up to now. Some religions works well for some people, and that is great. I am just saying that there are two completely different thought processes when discussing evolution and creationism, and the two aren't going to be able to see any common ground...


Agreed! thumbsup.gif  

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once i believed that starlight could guide me home
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#30    Xenojjin

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 05:27 AM

They made jesus sound like Nxt2hvn  tongue.gif  

Edited by Xenojjin, 17 February 2004 - 05:27 AM.

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