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Socrates meets Jesus


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#31    Talon

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE
have you ever read the New Testament? Just wondering.


Can't say that I have. Have you ever read Origin of Species? Just wondering.  tongue.gif  

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#32    LittleIrishVampiress

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 11:22 PM

lets face it, christians would feel whoever wrote that was poking fun at jesus and getting jesus all wrong, while atheists and the like would find it amusing and might even revel in it. the two, alas, will not agree. tongue.gif

why not believe in god and logic?

you cant prove god exists and you cant prove he dosnt. why not keep both options open, you have nothing to lose in doing so, and you might have everything to lose if you put all your faith into only one.

"I have never listened to anyone who criticized my taste in space travel, sideshows or gorillas. When this occurs, I pack up my dinosaurs and leave the room."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               - Ray Bradbury,  Zen in the Art of Writing

#33    Fluffybunny

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 11:26 PM

QUOTE (Talon S. @ Feb 17 2004, 02:10 PM)
QUOTE
have you ever read the New Testament? Just wondering.


Can't say that I have. Have you ever read Origin of Species? Just wondering.  tongue.gif

I have read them both. I highly recommend reading both of them...It is a learning experience, and tough to make an argument for either if you haven't read both...

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#34    Seraphina

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 11:28 PM

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why not believe in god and logic?


Well...that's because, as someone pointed out, the idea of logic and faith don't coexist...Logic tells us that we should accept the explanation of the universe and our origins that has evidence, or is at the very least an extrapolation of all the existing evidence we have.

Faith on the other hand demands that we believe whatever we do simply on the grounds that the faithful somehow 'know' it's true, evidence not being needed. In all ways the concepts are really opposites of each other tongue.gif

Edited by Seraphina, 17 February 2004 - 11:29 PM.

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#35    LittleIrishVampiress

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 11:54 PM

hmm...well you could have a logical approach to most things, but make an acception for somethings, no? tongue.gif

logic has to do with evidence, but absence of evidence isnt evidence of absence is it? (yes, i still like that quote very much! tongue.gif ) so if you look at things logically, god is a possibility as there's no evidence or proof he's not!!! w00t.gif

Edited by LittleIrishVampiress, 17 February 2004 - 11:55 PM.

"I have never listened to anyone who criticized my taste in space travel, sideshows or gorillas. When this occurs, I pack up my dinosaurs and leave the room."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               - Ray Bradbury,  Zen in the Art of Writing

#36    Seraphina

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 12:10 AM

My own beliefs come less from lack of evidence for god, and more for what I believe to be evidence for the opposite side of the arguement....true, just because you can't prove something doesn't make it untrue, but the side that offers some evidence is more convincing than the one that offers none at all wink2.gif  

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#37    LittleIrishVampiress

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 12:24 AM

QUOTE (Seraphina @ Feb 17 2004, 11:10 PM)
but the side that offers some evidence is more convincing than the one that offers none at all wink2.gif

true. but you can believe in all the things that boast evidence, aswell as keep your options open to things that don't as the side that say there's no god have no proof either so one is just reliable as the other.

"I have never listened to anyone who criticized my taste in space travel, sideshows or gorillas. When this occurs, I pack up my dinosaurs and leave the room."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               - Ray Bradbury,  Zen in the Art of Writing

#38    joc

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 03:33 AM

Talon,

If you will read the New Testament, from start to finish, then I will read
Origin of the Species AND Das Kapital, from start to finish. cool.gif

It is not uncommon for me to study something foreign to me.  I once was
having a discussion about the human brain with someone and as a consequence
began studying the brain.  I am still studying the brain, having memorized a
large portion of the structure.  

Care to take me up on the above dare? ohmy.gif  

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once i believed that starlight could guide me home
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#39    Talon

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 03:42 AM

I wouldn't bother with Das Kapital, its so complicated only about 5 people in the world understand it. Its really a guide for economists to make a society without inequality, as such the language is really complicated.

I have all three volumes... but I barely understood the first page.  wacko.gif

As for Origin of Species, I wouldn't since its been significantly out dated by modern evolution books.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#40    joc

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 03:44 AM

QUOTE
QUOTE (Talon S. @ Feb 17 2004, 02:10 PM)
QUOTE 
have you ever read the New Testament? Just wondering.



Can't say that I have. Have you ever read Origin of Species? Just wondering.   


I have read them both. I highly recommend reading both of them...It is a learning experience, and tough to make an argument for either if you haven't read both...


Fluffster,

Since you have read the New Testament would you do us all a favor and give us your take on  Socrates/Jesus? wink2.gif  

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#41    Talon

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 03:45 AM

QUOTE
Since you have read the New Testament would you do us all a favor and give us your take on Socrates/Jesus? 


Shouldn't he read The Republic, The Apology, and The Crito first so he knows about Socrates  tongue.gif

Edited by Talon S., 18 February 2004 - 03:46 AM.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#42    Atlantis Rises

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 03:55 AM

QUOTE (LittleIrishVampiress @ Feb 17 2004, 06:22 PM)
lets face it, christians would feel whoever wrote that was poking fun at jesus and getting jesus all wrong, while atheists and the like would find it amusing and might even revel in it. the two, alas, will not agree. tongue.gif

why not believe in god and logic?

you cant prove god exists and you cant prove he dosnt. why not keep both options open, you have nothing to lose in doing so, and you might have everything to lose if you put all your faith into only one.

I would disagree with that.  I'm a Christian, and I thought it was lol funny!  It all depends on your sense of humor.  When religion becomes an obsession, you begin to loose all sight of what's funny and true to your heart.

And well said.  Belief in God is a personal belief, and those who believe should not force their belief system onto others, as it only creates conflict and strife.

Just my opinion.

History is like Time - it always repeats itself.


#43    joc

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 01:24 PM

QUOTE
I have all three volumes... but I barely understood the first page. wacko.gif


Ahem...............I believe one of your counter points was that  I hadn't
read, I had not even
heard of Das Kapital and therefore couldn't possibly have any understanding of Left Wing politics.   grin2.gif  grin2.gif  grin2.gif *laughing out loud...real loud*


QUOTE

Shouldn't he read The Republic, The Apology, and The Crito first so he knows about Socrates tongue.gif


I would wager that the Fluffster has read some Socrates.  I would actually
second his opinion that reading the New Testament is advisable. ohmy.gif
Read specifically some of the conversations of Jesus with the Scribes and Pharisees.   thumbsup.gif Careful though! Your eyes might be opened to Truth that you
cannot logically explain. tongue.gif  

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ReverbNation

#44    PsychicPenguin

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 02:26 PM

No, it won't open up any truth. To find the truth inside the NT you must start with the assumption that it is true, which is not going to work for Talon, unless he is in the state of despair, looking for guidance and put some hope in the bible. But I bet the article was not written by someone who has read the NT. As someone said

QUOTE
They made jesus sound like Nxt2hvn


laugh.gif  laugh.gif  


#45    Talon

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 03:12 PM

QUOTE
Ahem...............I believe one of your counter points was that I hadn't
read, I had not even
heard of Das Kapital and therefore couldn't possibly have any understanding of Left Wing politics.    *laughing out loud...real loud*


Exactly your'd never heard of it  tongue.gif , I at least had heard of the NT and new its basic contents, as for Das Kapital as only people with IQs of 200+ can even begin to understand its wonders, we must instead go with Marx & Engel's Das Kapital for idiots, or rather the Communist Manifesto 1848, which I have read.  grin2.gif
But by talking about left politics, we're kinda getting off topic for the 5rd thread in a week  tongue.gif


QUOTE
To find the truth inside the NT you must start with the assumption that it is true, which is not going to work for Talon, unless he is in the state of despair, looking for guidance and put some hope in the bible.


I doubt even that situation would work  tongue.gif

QUOTE
I would wager that the Fluffster has read some Socrates


Ah, but you can't read Scorates, you can only read about him.


"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato




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