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How to strenghten Precog


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#16    Rosewin

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 11:10 AM

For the one who has experienced they know in fact it is they who walk while others crawl attempting to make sense of the world.


#17    Nucular

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 11:39 AM

Clovis on Apr 21 2008, 12:10 PM, said:

For the one who has experienced they know in fact it is they who walk while others crawl attempting to make sense of the world.

No, I've tried replying using that metaphor and I just can't make it work.

But regardless, it's not enough to assert knowledge; to legitimately claim knowledge, one must state where and how it was derived.  And this is the point I'm making - how on earth do you tell the difference between normal thought processes like the ones I described earlier, and apparently normal but really supernormal thought processes like those HumanTorch claims?


#18    eight bits

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 12:06 PM

I am fascinated by the preoccupation "those who know they walk while others crawl" seem to have with those who crawl. I'd think the knowing walkers would have somewhere worthwhile to walk knowingly to. Why proclaim their own superiority to others who, by hypothesis, are incapable of appreciating the speakers' sublime magnificence?

But questionning the intentions of my betters is probably a crawly thing to do.

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#19    Mia Camille

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 02:17 PM

i have visions also, and i don't know what they are for... i see people i don't know, houses i don't know and i have no clue what to do with these visions

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#20    Rosewin

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 06:37 PM

Write them down in a journal. Share them with us on your blog perhaps?


#21    LightningMunk

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 08:12 PM

with my energy training these days, i had immense precog today. my friend wanted to cast my fishing rod, and im like something bad is going to happen, i just knew it....and guess what? the freakin spinner of the rod (with all string and stuff) falls off the rod and into the water.....just one thing heh

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#22    000000000000000

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Posted 21 April 2008 - 08:33 PM

I respect your opinion nucular but too many "concidences" occur then. I know it is something else but you explain rather well your own point across you just have to experience it to believe it.


#23    Rosewin

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 07:56 AM

Nucular on Apr 21 2008, 06:39 AM, said:

No, I've tried replying using that metaphor and I just can't make it work.

But regardless, it's not enough to assert knowledge; to legitimately claim knowledge, one must state where and how it was derived.  And this is the point I'm making - how on earth do you tell the difference between normal thought processes like the ones I described earlier, and apparently normal but really supernormal thought processes like those HumanTorch claims?


Just by imagining and visualizing. There was a show on either HGTV or some other channel where some Asians were into Feng Shui. Now they wanted to get out of the house because it was jinxed because of the layout. They believed all sorts of bad luck things were happening but for them it was not luck it was real. In the negative energy areas that is where small things would happen like warped table tops and such when it shouldn't have happened. Now imagine they in fact caused it by worrying about it. By focusing on the negative energy spots they in fact looked at them and felt ugly about them. Concentrating not only negative thoughts but negative energy in the areas they thought were negative spots. This is an example of mind over matter. They decided to just build a house from scratch. Now imagine someone without this belief set moving in. I bet you none of the problems would have happened. It was their own mind...

The mind is powerful. How do people know they are being stared at then turn in the direction of whoever is staring at them? It works in reverse if you really want to get someones attention and they are not totally into something that would not allow them to sense it. You have heard the saying that there is no such thing as an accident. That if something bad happens the person might have wanted it. That might be a bad example but entertain the idea because there might be truth to it in some of the accidents we experience. People trick themselves into being gloomy when the weather is and are happy when the sun is out. Not me personally cause I love the rain and dislike the sun so the opposite works for me. Why? Because we are creatures of habit and it is the mind that compulses us to keep repeating the same patterns.

Why an old couple lasts so very long and one partner dies then the other will follow within a year or so? This is not always the case but it happens more chances than not. The mind combined with the heart are both powerful tools. The idea is to control our thoughts. Guide them. Mold them.

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to paraphrase Deepak Chopra, I hope someone can correct me if I have the order wrong or skipped a part, but thoughts create desire, desire creates potential, potential creates action, and action creates reality. Thus from a single thought we can create our own reality. Our happiness, our success, our relationships, and even the realization of our dreams


This in turn can be used for psi ability.

Edited by Clovis, 22 April 2008 - 07:57 AM.


#24    Nucular

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 12:04 PM

Clovis on Apr 22 2008, 08:56 AM, said:

Just by imagining and visualizing. There was a show on either HGTV or some other channel where some Asians were into Feng Shui. Now they wanted to get out of the house because it was jinxed because of the layout. They believed all sorts of bad luck things were happening but for them it was not luck it was real. In the negative energy areas that is where small things would happen like warped table tops and such when it shouldn't have happened. Now imagine they in fact caused it by worrying about it. By focusing on the negative energy spots they in fact looked at them and felt ugly about them. Concentrating not only negative thoughts but negative energy in the areas they thought were negative spots. This is an example of mind over matter. They decided to just build a house from scratch. Now imagine someone without this belief set moving in. I bet you none of the problems would have happened. It was their own mind...

Obviously I don't know the case, but it seems that you're again identifying a case with two or three separate explanations (or hypotheses), and then without evidence asserting one of them to be the case.  In this case, the hypotheses would be:

1) Feng shui is at work here, and interrupted flow of chi caused the bad luck
2) Feng shui is not at work, but the mind has the ability to psychically manipulate its environment according to its beliefs
3) Neither feng shui nor psychic powers are at work, and instead any statistically normal negative occurrences are interpreted as caused by chi; cognitive biases cause a skewed impression of exactly what the ratio of 'bad luck' to 'good luck' is; hypervigilance to minor occurrences which would otherwise not be noticed bolsters the examples.

Again, based on that example - how would we tell the difference, without a proper and objective examination of the situation?  It's clearly not enough to say "imagining and visualising".  As you say, the mind is powerful, and we can imagine and visualise anything we want; this doesn't make it so.

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The mind is powerful.

Yes it is.

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How do people know they are being stared at then turn in the direction of whoever is staring at them?

Personally, I'd remove the "How" from the beginning of that sentence.  At the very least, the jury's out on Sheldrake's work (I personally would go further).

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It works in reverse if you really want to get someones attention and they are not totally into something that would not allow them to sense it. You have heard the saying that there is no such thing as an accident. That if something bad happens the person might have wanted it.

Yes, I have heard it said.  This does not make it true, plausible or even possible, of course.  I've heard a lot of things said.  It's true that people sometimes bring bad things upon themselves, of course; this is beyond dispute.  But I guess the question would be the causative pathway to that; I would say that there is no pathway other than behaviour, whereas you hint again that there is a psi-based cause.

Quote

That might be a bad example but entertain the idea because there might be truth to it in some of the accidents we experience. People trick themselves into being gloomy when the weather is and are happy when the sun is out. Not me personally cause I love the rain and dislike the sun so the opposite works for me. Why? Because we are creatures of habit and it is the mind that compulses us to keep repeating the same patterns.

Why an old couple lasts so very long and one partner dies then the other will follow within a year or so? This is not always the case but it happens more chances than not. The mind combined with the heart are both powerful tools. The idea is to control our thoughts. Guide them. Mold them.

Nothing here seems to go beyond normal effects of the mind on itself and the behaviour of its body.

QUOTE
to paraphrase Deepak Chopra, I hope someone can correct me if I have the order wrong or skipped a part, but thoughts create desire, desire creates potential, potential creates action, and action creates reality. Thus from a single thought we can create our own reality. Our happiness, our success, our relationships, and even the realization of our dreams

Again, no supernatural claims or evidence here.  We think stuff up, we want it to happen, we do what we can to make it happen.  This is not a supernatural event, this is our bodies doing what they have evolved to do.  Action creates reality.  Behaviour is our only way of interacting with our environment.

QUOTE
This in turn can be used for psi ability.

Again, that's where I have a problem.  How can the extremely mundane processes you describe paraphrased from Chopra (I suspect, possibly the least controversial thing he's ever written) be used for psi?

At no point here, as before, do I intentionally dismiss the psi hypotheses; I'm just pointing out that at no point do you introduce any evidence for them either, so we're left once more with not being able to distinguish between normal and supernatural explanations for the same events.


#25    Nucular

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 12:08 PM

HumanTorch on Apr 21 2008, 09:33 PM, said:

I respect your opinion nucular but too many "concidences" occur then. I know it is something else but you explain rather well your own point across you just have to experience it to believe it.

You're perfectly entitled to your beliefs of course, and thank you for considering mine.  I'd only add that I wasn't really describing 'coincidences', which are causally unrelated events which take place at the same time; rather I'd say that all of the events you described were causally related, and were threfore not coincidences, but parallel events originating from a common cause.

Edited by Nucular, 22 April 2008 - 12:08 PM.


#26    eight bits

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 12:33 PM

Quote

Quote

How do people know they are being stared at then turn in the direction of whoever is staring at them?

Personally, I'd remove the "How" from the beginning of that sentence.

Well, brother Nuke, I wouldn't original.gif . How do I know? If I'm in a public place, somebody is, has just been, or is about to be, looking at me. Why do I look? People fidget. Looking in the "correct" place is proof. Looking elsewhere is "searching," also proof.

Where can I play this game for money? I like the odds.

Edited by eight bits, 22 April 2008 - 12:36 PM.

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#27    Nucular

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 12:49 PM

eight bits on Apr 22 2008, 01:33 PM, said:

Well, brother Nuke, I wouldn't original.gif . How do I know? If I'm in a public place, somebody is, has just been, or is about to be, looking at me. Why do I look? People fidget. Looking in the "correct" place is proof. Looking elsewhere is "searching," also proof.

Where can I play this game for money? I like the odds.

Hmmm, yes, perhaps I should tighten up the rules on that one before I begin my own million dollar staring challenge grin2.gif

Again with the naturalistic vs. psi explanations.  Do you notice people fidgeting with your eyes or with your psi? wink2.gif


#28    She-ra

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Posted 22 April 2008 - 01:35 PM

eight bits on Apr 22 2008, 08:33 AM, said:

Personally, I'd remove the "How" from the beginning of that sentence.

Well, brother Nuke, I wouldn't original.gif . How do I know? If I'm in a public place, somebody is, has just been, or is about to be, looking at me. Why do I look? People fidget. Looking in the "correct" place is proof. Looking elsewhere is "searching," also proof.

Where can I play this game for money? I like the odds.



LOL People always look at me! I get caught staring at someone all the time...busted grin2.gif ((Ekkkk!))






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