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ATLANTIS FOUND (By Me) In The SAHARA


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#1    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 05:38 AM

For the past few weeks and months I have been obsessed by Atlantis. I always thought it existed but then changed my mind and felt it was all part of Plato's mind. But in studying through Plato's work lately I can see that some of his work would be based in history. I think he has definitely used some real historic geography and the tale that Solon heard from the Egyptian priests was indeed a true tale. I have my own theory on the whole story Plato is telling in relation to virtue and finding wisdom and how he relates it in Timaeus and Critias but in doing so have stumbled upon what I believe to be the Atlantis he speaks of as described in Timaeus and Critias. The Green Sahara topic here bought me to this conclusion.
Let's look at this part: (from Plato's Timeaus)

In this mountain there dwelt one of the earth born primeval men of that country, whose name was Evenor, and he had a wife named Leucippe, and they had an only daughter who was called Cleito. The maiden had already reached womanhood, when her father and mother died; Poseidon fell in love with her and had intercourse with her, and breaking the ground, inclosed the hill in which she dwelt all round, making alternate zones of sea and land larger and smaller, encircling one another; there were two of land and three of water, which he turned as with a lathe, each having its circumference equidistant every way from the centre, so that no man could get to the island, for ships and voyages were not as yet.

This always intrigued me, try and draw a centre hill and then enclose it with 2 circles of land and 3 of water - you can't - unless the last water one has land around it.

I know that the Sahara has been wet, more precisely a shallow ocean, called the Triton Sea. You can read all about it by Herodotus, who we also know Plato had read. As well as the rock art found in the mountains of Tassili, some dated 5000BC.
It was an ocean when sea levels rose and through Gabes the sea went over the Sahara, leaving the Atlas mountains exposed and some other high land, Tassili for one, as it fluctuated some areas were exposed as plains and then may have been covered again, this occuring until a climate change started drying out the Sahara. The sea went over the Sahara and came out where the land is at sea level, which happens to be the west coast of Mauritania. Look at an atlas, you can how this would be. Gabes is in Tunisia.

So this is the scenario 6000-10,000 years ago. Now let's look in there for Atlantis.

"All these and their descendants for many generations were the inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea; and also, as has been already said, they held sway in our direction over the country within the Pillars as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia. (actually says in Europe in another version so this is not Tyrrenia Sea area, I believe this is in Spain.)
Leaving the palace and passing out across the three you came to a wall which began at the sea and went all round: this was everywhere distant fifty stadia from the largest zone or harbour, and enclosed the whole, the ends meeting at the mouth of the channel which led to the sea. The entire area was densely crowded with habitations; and the canal and the largest of the harbours were full of vessels and merchants coming from all parts, who, from their numbers, kept up a multitudinous sound of human voices, and din and clatter of all sorts night and day."

It says: Passing out across the three you came to a wall which went all around. This explains my conundrum before - the 3rd ring of water had to be surrounded by land. Which it is. The island is in an area that is part sea and part land. The ends meeting at the mouth of the channel which led to the sea. Look at the attached photo and you can see how the rock surrounded the rings which is the land I speak of surrounding the 3rd ring and you can see the channel that goes off to the Atlantic. When this was a channel and trading was going, but earlier when Poseidon has only made the hill and rings no one can through because their is no voyages yet. It is only after the generations of children that Poseidon and Cleitio have does trading start, so that accounts for that. When Poseidon was given the land it was when the Greek gods him, Zeus and Hades were given their lots. The land was then inhabitable by humans some time after that. Solon only knows up until the 'first man' Phroneus and the deluge - this is before that. (Between creation and Noah) An inundation before Noah would have been the sea rising so much it caused the Black Sea to become a sea instead of a lake. You have to imagine water in between the rings so only the tops of the rings are showing, the land.

I have heaps more to add to this with numerous links that will show that this is the answer. The idea of Atlantis being in the Sahara is not new but what is new is that this structure has only been seen in recent times due to satellite photographs. It can be no where else. This people, is Atlantis.  The Richat Structure in Mauritania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richat_Structure
The Richat Structure, a prominent circular feature in the Sahara desert of Mauritania near Ouadane, has attracted attention since the earliest space missions because it forms a conspicuous bull's-eye in the otherwise rather featureless expanse of the desert. Described by some as looking like an outsized ammonite in the desert, the structure, which has a diameter of almost 50 kilometres (30 miles), has become a landmark for space shuttle crews. Initially interpreted as a meteorite impact structure because of its high degree of circularity, it is now thought to be a symmetrical uplift (circular anticline or dome) that has been laid bare by erosion. Paleozoic quartzites form the resistant beds outline the structure.

Keep in mind this: http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arc...50407richat.htm  In the case of the Richat Structure, it is evident that the force uplifting the area also cut the concentric crater walls. In crater formation, the electrical forces constrain the arc to contact the surface at a 90-degree angle. Because the arc typically consists of one or more pairs of channels rotating around a common axis, a stationary arc will etch a circular crater and, in stratified terrain, will machine out concentric circles.
Plato mentioned how they are natural but look to have been cut by a lathe.

http://googlesightseeing.com/maps?p=396&am...p;t=k&hl=en
That's a Google Earth sightseeing pic that you zoom in and out of, you can see clearly the concentric rings making up a centre and then 2 of land and 3 of water then surrounded by the land and the channel that goes all the way to the sea.

Now the guys in this expedition just need me to show them where to look:
http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/395915

Think about it. This will do for an opening post.

" As for those genealogies of yours which you just now recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than the tales of children. In the first place you remember a single deluge only, but there were many previous ones; in the next place, you do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city are descended from a small seed or remnant of them which survived. And this was unknown to you, because, for many generations, the survivors of that destruction died, leaving no written word. For there was a time, Solon, before the great deluge of all, when the city which now is Athens was first in war and in every way the best governed of all cities, is said to have performed the noblest deeds and to have had the fairest constitution of any of which tradition tells, under the face of heaven."

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Edited by weareallsuckers, 25 April 2008 - 05:43 AM.

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#2    darkbreed

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 06:26 AM

Considering Platos own description where atlantis was it had to been far away from Africa, and I'm still sure he was talking about Latin Americas as that's basically the only place that really fits. Lotsa other evidence supports this as well.

For more on my theory on that check my site http://atlantis.onestop.net

www.PleiadianTalk.tk/ - Perspectives from a member of the Great White Brotherhood
American Atlantis Research - Documenting pre-colombian world migration and Atlantis-America
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#3    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 07:15 AM

darkbreed on Apr 25 2008, 04:26 PM, said:

Considering Platos own description where atlantis was it had to been far away from Africa, and I'm still sure he was talking about Latin Americas as that's basically the only place that really fits. Lotsa other evidence supports this as well.

For more on my theory on that check my site http://atlantis.onestop.net

No, Plato is describing Africa:


"Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent."

"Came forth out of the Atlantic", they would have if the headed up to the Mediterranean from Mauritania. By going through the Triton Sea you could navigate into the Atlantic. So, if you came up from Mauritania you would come from the direction of the Atlantic.

There was an island in front of the Strait, do we know front meant of the west of it. Front to an Egyptian could be toward Egypt, so in a south easterly direction of the straits.
Larger than Libya and Asia put together.
Libya was North Africa and Asia was Asia Minor, not overly big but easily as big as the area of the Sahara.

"and was the way to the other islands": islands would be everywhere in an inland sea with the mountains rising out of the sea where they are and higher land also being islands.

"and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean;"

you would pass through this area of islands in the inland sea to the rest of the African continent. Sub Sahara and south of it. Opposite of the Sahara would be the sub Sahara looking west from Egypt.

"for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent."

The surrounding land is the surrounding land around Egypt which would be Africa, the rest of it, all south from sub Sahara, a boundless continent.

If you look at the scene as I have presented it with the Triton Sea in the Sahara it doesn't say anything about being in the Atlantic actually.

Edited by weareallsuckers, 25 April 2008 - 08:14 AM.

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#4    Emma_Acid

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 08:53 AM

darkbreed on Apr 25 2008, 07:26 AM, said:

Considering Platos own description where atlantis was it had to been far away from Africa, and I'm still sure he was talking about Latin Americas as that's basically the only place that really fits. Lotsa other evidence supports this as well.

For more on my theory on that check my site http://atlantis.onestop.net


In this reconstruction of the ecumene of Herodotus, you can see that they had no knowledge of the Americas of that time (which weren't latin then).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Herodot...orld_map-en.svg

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#5    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 09:10 AM

Emma_Acid_88 on Apr 25 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

In this reconstruction of the ecumene of Herodotus, you can see that they had no knowledge of the Americas of that time (which weren't latin then).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Herodot...orld_map-en.svg

True, also Plato did not believe even Herodotus that a man sailed around Africa, (Libya) let alone made it over to another continent.

Edited by weareallsuckers, 25 April 2008 - 09:12 AM.

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#6    keithisco

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 09:44 AM

weareallsuckers on Apr 25 2008, 09:15 AM, said:

No, Plato is describing Africa:


"Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent."

"Came forth out of the Atlantic", they would have if the headed up to the Mediterranean from Mauritania. By going through the Triton Sea you could navigate into the Atlantic. So, if you came up from Mauritania you would come from the direction of the Atlantic.

There was an island in front of the Strait, do we know front meant of the west of it. Front to an Egyptian could be toward Egypt, so in a south easterly direction of the straits.
Larger than Libya and Asia put together.
Libya was North Africa and Asia was Asia Minor, not overly big but easily as big as the area of the Sahara.

"and was the way to the other islands": islands would be everywhere in an inland sea with the mountains rising out of the sea where they are and higher land also being islands.

"and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean;"

you would pass through this area of islands in the inland sea to the rest of the African continent. Sub Sahara and south of it. Opposite of the Sahara would be the sub Sahara looking west from Egypt.

"for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent."

The surrounding land is the surrounding land around Egypt which would be Africa, the rest of it, all south from sub Sahara, a boundless continent.

If you look at the scene as I have presented it with the Triton Sea in the Sahara it doesn't say anything about being in the Atlantic actually.

Hi WAAS,

Cards on the table..... as you know I do not believe that Atlantis is anything other than a good story, told by a Master Craftman of that trade.

But... I do like to read ideas and theories surrounding the legend.

You have made a very good case for your interpretation of Timaeus and Critias and I applaud you for that. This is the first time that I have read of the link with the “Eye of Africa”  and the local artefact evidence shows a long period of human habitation at this site. The geological structure is very compelling and if indeed there was a Triton Sea that filled the area then I would accept that this was the basis for the legend, relocated beyond the Pillars of Hercules in the re-telling.

Certainly the idea that he was talking of South America is complete nonsense, and completely unnecessary as a foundation for the legend itself.

I am going to do some research at the USGS and BGS, and if I get time will visit the Spanish Geological Survey records office in Madrid to see if it is possible to verify that the “Eye of Africa” would have been surrounded by water. It will be fascinating to find out whether your theory holds “water” (forgive the pun).



#7    keithisco

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 09:47 AM

Here is a link that is similar to your theory.... but the detail differs

LINK


#8    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 10:51 AM

keithisco on Apr 25 2008, 07:47 PM, said:

Here is a link that is similar to your theory.... but the detail differs

LINK

Thanks for your support.
I also think that most of Critias was not factual, I do think however he has placed the Atlanteans in a true geographical area that was a civilisation capable of everything he says. I personally think the tale of the war is a tale of good vs evil and is actually Solon's life story into a war but that's another topic I have. So in essence I don't think Atlantis was as real as he wrote but real enough to base the beginning of his tale on.
Similar to your link is this one:
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=prq6yk...hl=en#PPA172,M1
This should be page 172, you can see how there is an explanation via an Arab that can also link the Greeks with the Egyptians and the Dravidians. I was trying to find out where there was info on this part as Plato mentions this. That the Egyptians and Greeks have the same ancestry.
It also puts into perspective my idea but without the Richat Structure mentioned.

Edited by weareallsuckers, 25 April 2008 - 10:55 AM.

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#9    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 10:58 AM

keithisco on Apr 25 2008, 07:44 PM, said:

Hi WAAS,

Cards on the table..... as you know I do not believe that Atlantis is anything other than a good story, told by a Master Craftman of that trade.

But... I do like to read ideas and theories surrounding the legend.

You have made a very good case for your interpretation of Timaeus and Critias and I applaud you for that. This is the first time that I have read of the link with the “Eye of Africa”  and the local artefact evidence shows a long period of human habitation at this site. The geological structure is very compelling and if indeed there was a Triton Sea that filled the area then I would accept that this was the basis for the legend, relocated beyond the Pillars of Hercules in the re-telling.

Certainly the idea that he was talking of South America is complete nonsense, and completely unnecessary as a foundation for the legend itself.

I am going to do some research at the USGS and BGS, and if I get time will visit the Spanish Geological Survey records office in Madrid to see if it is possible to verify that the “Eye of Africa” would have been surrounded by water. It will be fascinating to find out whether your theory holds “water” (forgive the pun).

Thanks for that, that would be interesting to find out. Appears it was since the rock art is showing signs of it but it would be good to have some sort of official answer.


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Edited by weareallsuckers, 25 April 2008 - 01:34 PM.

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#10    keithisco

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 01:44 PM

This is more difficult than i expected. On-line research is not giving me much info.
Obviously the limestone and karst is conclusive of sub-sea immersion, it's the timescales that are giving me the greatest trouble.

Oh well, back to research, I think the Madrid office is open tomorrow , if so then I will get myself down there and quiz their record-keepers.

Thanks WAAS, this is going to be a very interesting investigation. Will post more as I discover more.

PS. I have logged date and time of your theory as posted here, just in case anybody runs off to Discovery channel with your idea claiming it as their own!!

Edited by keithisco, 25 April 2008 - 01:50 PM.


#11    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 01:53 PM

keithisco on Apr 25 2008, 11:44 PM, said:

This is more difficult than i expected. On-line research is not giving me much info.
Obviously the limestone and karst is conclusive of sub-sea immersion, it's the timescales that are giving me the greatest trouble.

Oh well, back to research, I think the Madrid office is open tomorrow , if so then I will get myself down there and quiz their record-keepers.

Thanks WAAS, this is going to be a very interesting investigation. Will post more as I discover more.

Thanks!
The timescale is a bit of a problem, but I believe it would have had to have been between 10,000BC and 3000BC. The Sahara dried up completely c. 3000BC and pre 10,000BC would be too early in the cases of human history and Plato.
Most info on rising sea levels on the internet are very inconsistent. The rising of the Med. into the Black Sea at 5000BC is a time that I think would be suitable.

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#12    Moonie2012

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 01:54 PM

This very old Chinese map of Africa shows something that may correlate:

linked-image

The "lake" in the center is probably just an over exaggeration, but the round thing in the middle of it is interesting. Not a perfect match, but interesting nonetheless.

Edited by Moonie2012, 25 April 2008 - 01:55 PM.


#13    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 01:55 PM

Quote

PS. I have logged date and time of your theory as posted here, just in case anybody runs off to Discovery channel with your idea claiming it as their own!!

Thats Keith!! I was a bit worried about that myself. lol  thumbsup.gif

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#14    The Puzzler

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 02:00 PM

Moonie2012 on Apr 25 2008, 11:54 PM, said:

This very old Chinese map of Africa shows something that may correlate:

linked-image

The "lake" in the center is probably just an over exaggeration, but the round thing in the middle of it is interesting. Not a perfect match, but interesting nonetheless.

WOW. That is good. That map fits great since if you look at old maps from Herodotus you can see that the end of the Arabian Peninsula is in line with what they knew to be the bottom of Africa. Thanks for that!  And look at that circle.........

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#15    Moonie2012

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 02:05 PM

Supposedly it was created in 1389 and copied from an older rock carving...here's more about it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2446907.stm

For the record, I'm skeptical that that's Atlantis, but sometimes the best way to hide something is to put it right out in the open.

Edited by Moonie2012, 25 April 2008 - 02:14 PM.





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