Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Why no proof?


  • Please log in to reply
95 replies to this topic

#16    Rosewin

Rosewin

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Banned
  • 8,967 posts
  • Joined:26 Oct 2004
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 06 May 2008 - 02:31 PM

Moonie2012 on May 6 2008, 08:52 AM, said:

Sporkling, your random nonsensical posts aren't needed here, thanks - unless you have some proof, you're just yelling excuses into the wind.


Everyone's view is welcome and the only control I believe an OP of a thread has is requesting it be closed. Seeing that Sporkling for the most shares your skepticism I do not see what the issue is?

I do agree with him though that the burden of proof is on you. If someone were to say they can prove it to you then it would be on them.

Quote

1. "It's not my job to prove it" - this excuse doesn't cut it. It IS your job to prove any claims you make, other wise they are nothing but that - claims.

2. "Nobody will believe me, they will say I faked it" - also not a good excuse. If you are careful, plan and document your experiment well, there should be no room for mistakes. The test should have clear, visible results.

3. "I don't need to prove it, because I know it's real" - please see #1.


1. It really is not up to them to prove it, it is not up to anyone if they are simply sharing their views or an account of events, even if their views include that they have personally witnessed or demonstrated psi in the past.

2. Most of the time the paranormal or psi is not an on demand phenomena but happens when it happens. This is why it falls outside of mainstream science which does require repeatable controlled observations. Maybe someone will volunteer and you can follow them around with a documentary team so when it does happen it will? Either way the effort is the one who wants to prove or disprove not someone simply sharing their views.

3. "I don't need to prove it, because I know it's real" sounds to me like they are not wishing to prove their views but just share them. Nothing wrong with that on the forum.

kthxbye

Edited by Clovis, 06 May 2008 - 02:32 PM.


#17    Sporkling

Sporkling

    Poltergeist

  • Closed
  • 2,841 posts
  • Joined:25 Aug 2007

Posted 06 May 2008 - 02:34 PM

Moonie2012 on May 6 2008, 10:18 PM, said:

I have no need to respond to you anymore, as you never have anything good to offer to these discussions, only rambling excuses and trivial arguments - sorry.

Believe what you want - it doesn't make you right.

Later.

And to this sentence, I can also say "disbelieve what you want, it does not make you right". Because indeed, can you actually say you know you are right? I doubt that.

Edited by Sporkling, 06 May 2008 - 02:34 PM.


#18    Moonie2012

Moonie2012

    Alien Abducter

  • Banned
  • 4,913 posts
  • Joined:09 Apr 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MN

Posted 06 May 2008 - 02:35 PM

Clovis on May 6 2008, 09:31 AM, said:

Everyone's view is welcome and the only control I believe an OP of a thread has is requesting it be closed. Seeing that Sporkling for the most shares your skepticism I do not see what the issue is?

I do agree with him though that the burden of proof is on you. If someone were to say they can prove it to you then it would be on them.


Sporkling has said he believes everything he reads - that's skepticism?

And no, I don't have any control over who posts, obviously - requesting that people don't post nonsense and regurgitated excuses is all I can do.

kthxbye

Edited by Moonie2012, 06 May 2008 - 02:38 PM.


#19    Saru

Saru

    Site Webmaster

  • 20,010 posts
  • Joined:06 Mar 2001
  • Gender:Male

  • "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious." - Albert Einstein

Posted 06 May 2008 - 02:51 PM

Can we keep this civil please, if you disagree with another member's point of view then you are welcome to do so but rather than simply branding their response as 'nonsense' elaborate on it, address the points that have been raised and provide a solid counter argument.






#20    Moonie2012

Moonie2012

    Alien Abducter

  • Banned
  • 4,913 posts
  • Joined:09 Apr 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MN

Posted 06 May 2008 - 02:55 PM

Saru on May 6 2008, 09:51 AM, said:

Can we keep this civil please, if you disagree with another member's point of view then you are welcome to do so but rather than simply branding their response as 'nonsense' elaborate on it, address the points that have been raised and provide a solid counter argument.


I would try and I agree, but some of the points and posts are so badly worded and incomprehensible that I wouldn't know where to start.

I'll drop it, as it's better that I just ignore them and keep the conversation on track.


#21    Saru

Saru

    Site Webmaster

  • 20,010 posts
  • Joined:06 Mar 2001
  • Gender:Male

  • "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious." - Albert Einstein

Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:11 PM

I think Sporkling is actually having some trouble with the quote feature which is why the posts in question are difficult to read, i'll go ahead and repair the quote tags.


#22    Bella-Angelique

Bella-Angelique

    Caprica Six Cylon

  • Member
  • 7,174 posts
  • Joined:02 Feb 2006
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

  • There is more to learn

Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:17 PM

What ever happened to the man who could make images on film with his mind?
Last I heard he had passed every test.
Anyone know?

Posted Image

#23    drakonwick

drakonwick

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,198 posts
  • Joined:15 Jan 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Battlefield Earth

  • There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.

Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:18 PM

Clovis on May 6 2008, 10:31 AM, said:

Everyone's view is welcome and the only control I believe an OP of a thread has is requesting it be closed. Seeing that Sporkling for the most shares your skepticism I do not see what the issue is?

I do agree with him though that the burden of proof is on you. If someone were to say they can prove it to you then it would be on them.



1. It really is not up to them to prove it, it is not up to anyone if they are simply sharing their views or an account of events, even if their views include that they have personally witnessed or demonstrated psi in the past.


2. Most of the time the paranormal or psi is not an on demand phenomena but happens when it happens. This is why it falls outside of mainstream science which does require repeatable controlled observations. Maybe someone will volunteer and you can follow them around with a documentary team so when it does happen it will? Either way the effort is the one who wants to prove or disprove not someone simply sharing their views.

3. "I don't need to prove it, because I know it's real" sounds to me like they are not wishing to prove their views but just share them. Nothing wrong with that on the forum.

kthxbye

I will have to disagree, as there is a difference between bolstering a claim, and sharing a view point.

I remember the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." - J. Robert Oppenheimer.

#24    Aztec Warrior

Aztec Warrior

    Ancient Order of Hibernians Grand Master

  • Member
  • 3,339 posts
  • Joined:24 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mexico City

  • A neoconservative is a "liberal mugged by reality," one who became more conservative after seeing the results of liberal policies.Iriving Kristol

Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:21 PM

I can think of one reason why someone with special powers  rolleyes.gif might want to keep it hidden. Just imagine how much money they could rack in with the lotteries, horse racing etc. Funny how NONE of these lucky winners ever say they have special psychic powers.

Posted ImageBlurring and Stirring the truth and the lies

So I don't know what's real and what's not
Always confusing the thoughts in my head
So I can't trust myself anymore
I'm dying again

#25    darksoul_

darksoul_

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 193 posts
  • Joined:28 Feb 2008
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 May 2008 - 03:44 PM

I'm not going to comment on "powers" such as telekinesis,telepathy and whatever "ability" some ppl might have.
Simply cause I'm not familiar with it much nor have I tried to develop it. (mainly cause its implications in real life are quite obsolete & useless)

The thing I can comment on tho is "powers" such as "hermetic alchemy","mental transmutation","magick","astral travel",etc
the "powers" if you wish to call it like that that allow you to influence,sense certain aspects of our reality.

The problem with these is that eventhough there is enough evidence in the sense of mostly anecdotal,ancient writings,common logic,self-experience etc
They cannot be proven 100% scientificaly yet.
Quantum Physics are SLOWLY starting to catch up with the way the universe functions,but even then most cannot be completely verified without the use of personal & spiritual development.
f.e quantum physics is slowly discovering more & more about quantum entanglement,teleportation and the likes.
If you put this in perspective with f.e the kybalion & the 7 hermetic principles
you will see that certain aspects of quantum theories & consciousness theories are slowly moving into ideas & theories that correspond with certain aspects of the hermetic principles (vibrations f.e)

But then you come right down to the biggest problem with most scientists.
they refuse to accept what the spiritual teachers have been stating for MILLENIA,and try to ridicule most scientists or professors who DO see the correspondance with old teachings,on various fields.
One can only truly discover this through their own personal & spiritual development cause modern "generaly accepted" philosophy & science has yet to completely discover & prove these exact things.

Quantum physics is an area of particular interest mainly because of this.
Scientists just need some time to discover how stuff works in this quantum world ^^
but as I said,they are more & more pointing towards it.

edit:sorry for bad grammar etc,not in the mood to correct it! tongue.gif

Edited by darksoul_, 06 May 2008 - 03:46 PM.


#26    The Skeptic Eric Raven

The Skeptic Eric Raven

    Master Blaster

  • Member
  • 11,065 posts
  • Joined:08 Dec 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gulf Coast of Mississippi. Missing TX.

  • One day love will find me.....

Posted 06 May 2008 - 04:18 PM

Sporkling on May 6 2008, 09:04 AM, said:

I wonder why you ask if you don't want to be told.

Sorry dude, You don't ever tell us anything. At all.

........the sleeper has awoken!
Sometimes we need a kick in the butt to wake us up. Well, I'm up now!Boo ya.


...there are many things in life that will capture your eye, but very few will capture your heart. These are the ones to pursue. These are the ones worth keeping..."

#27    Foolosophy

Foolosophy

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 31 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2007

Posted 06 May 2008 - 05:12 PM

Clovis on May 6 2008, 07:31 AM, said:

I do agree with him though that the burden of proof is on you. If someone were to say they can prove it to you then it would be on them.

Burden of proof is ALWAYS on the person who makes the original claim.

If someone says "I can move things with my mind." They would have to prove it, not the skeptic who comes in and asks for evidence.


#28    Moonie2012

Moonie2012

    Alien Abducter

  • Banned
  • 4,913 posts
  • Joined:09 Apr 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MN

Posted 06 May 2008 - 05:20 PM

Foolosophy on May 6 2008, 12:12 PM, said:

Burden of proof is ALWAYS on the person who makes the original claim.

If someone says "I can move things with my mind." They would have to prove it, not the skeptic who comes in and asks for evidence.


Yeah, I don't understand how proof can be anybodys burden other than the claimant - to say otherwise makes absolutely no sense at all.

The fact that some of these people seem so eager to make people believe what they say, AS LONG AS NO PHYSICAL PROVING ON THEIR PART IS REQUIRED, leads me to the only possible logical conclusion - they are lying or succeed in proving themselves wrong (through testing) and won't admit it.

Edited by Moonie2012, 06 May 2008 - 05:25 PM.


#29    Tannenisis

Tannenisis

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 267 posts
  • Joined:21 Mar 2007
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Where Light and Love Abound

  • Life is short. Live well, play hard, stand tall, rock the boat, know thyself and to hell with all the consequences.

Posted 06 May 2008 - 05:25 PM

Darksoul, your views are in line with my own thinking. Thank you for your eloquence.

As for the OP, I have seen things with my own eyes that speak of the power of the human mind. I have spent a year fellowshipping with Tibetan Buddhists. In that time, I had the opportunity to meet one of their elderly Geshes. When I say that this man was awe-inspiring, I mean that. I went to that meeting with no knowledge of what a Geshe even was. He told people in the meeting specific and relevant things to their lives without even knowing them. And to look at him brought tears of joy to your eyes. He simply radiated light. And this is the secret to all such people: the abilities come through them.

There are people in this world with abilities, who have honed them through meditative practice. And every one that I've ever come across wasn't one commonly known to everyone with loads of published books. These are people you "seek out" and happen to run into. I've also never run into one of these people that was below the age of 40 who had fluid control over them. Nor have I met any who state that the abilities originate with them. They instead say that they are merely vessels for their manifestation.


#30    Moonie2012

Moonie2012

    Alien Abducter

  • Banned
  • 4,913 posts
  • Joined:09 Apr 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MN

Posted 06 May 2008 - 05:30 PM

Tannenisis on May 6 2008, 12:25 PM, said:

There are people in this world with abilities, who have honed them through meditative practice. And every one that I've ever come across wasn't one commonly known to everyone with loads of published books. These are people you "seek out" and happen to run into. I've also never run into one of these people that was below the age of 40 who had fluid control over them. Nor have I met any who state that the abilities originate with them. They instead say that they are merely vessels for their manifestation.


I'm willing to believe that some special people out there have some type of mental power that came through a lifetime of practice and honing - however, what you just said supports my original thoughts, the thought that 99.9% of the people that post here with wild claims of things like power of fire, cold, and telekinesis can not (and should not) be taken seriously.

The absolute lack of any serious attempt at proof underlines this point. At least ONE of the people that regularly boast of such powers would have gotten sick of the skepticism long ago and posted SERIOUS proof - but they haven't, because they simply can't do the things they are so boastful about. If they didn't want people to know about and believe in their "power", they wouldn't brag about it in the first place - unfortunately bragging is all they have to support their wild claims, or we would have seen something from them by now.


Edited by Moonie2012, 06 May 2008 - 05:54 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users