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Why people are skeptical of psychic claims


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#31    supervike

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 05:53 PM

KBA on May 5 2008, 03:09 PM, said:

Well, as us skeptics see it, it's because the powers you claim to have do not exist.



I will admit to being highly skeptical...but I am not as bold as to say some of these powers do not exist.  I don't think they are in the realm of impossibility, it would just take some serious proof before I'd buy it.  I'm a guarded skepticist, I guess...

But, on the other hand, jellyfoot sounds completely delicious.

But, seriously, good post.


#32    DfizzleShizzle

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:45 PM

Moro Bumbleroot on May 6 2008, 08:16 PM, said:

Well, I have tried the psiball, as well as the psi/pinwheel Heart. I managed to feel something with the psiball!
But, I managed to realize that it was my mind telling me that I was. As for the psi/pinwheel, I managed to
get it to move from the heat off of my hands. But, when I put it under a clear glass bowl NOTHING.



But Moro...Can you provide any proof that it is not just a trick of the mind? I myself have done things like that to test it many times....One thing I do, is I'll "shell" my psi ball by coating it with a layer of psi outside the ball itself to keep it from disspating..I then set the ball somewhere, and come back, lets say an hour later...I come back, hey, what do you know! I can still feel it! If it was bio-feedback, you'd still have to trick you're mind in order to get the feelings, you're mind wouldn't be able to make u feel the sensations in a matter of milleseconds...

"A believer is a songless bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wings." -Robert G. Ingersoll

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins

#33    DfizzleShizzle

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:48 PM

Nucular on May 7 2008, 11:33 AM, said:

Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle.

I hate to perpetuate this 'us and them' posturing thing that's endemic on this board, but on this occasion, I'm indulging myself.

Believer: I can do real magic!
Sceptic:  Really?  Can you prove it, or do you have an agenda?
Believer: No, you prove it.
Sceptic:  ...

I find it hard to figure out what you guys expect from sceptics trying some of these things out.

Because clearly you won't take "Why would I spend hours of my own valuable time staring slack-jawed at my own hands to try to do something I don't think will work in a million years?" as an answer.

But you also won't take "I have done, it didn't work" as an answer either, since that just draws the painfully predictable answer:


and


He tried it.  It didn't work.  So you try to make him try more, showing dogmatic inability to accept a negative outcome of the activity you requested.

Bizarre.

Personally, I spent most of my teens staring at spoons, matchboxes, my hands, the backs of people's heads, ceilings, etc. etc. to try to 'master' an 'ability' I was sure existed.  Sometimes, I convinced myself it 'worked'.  Later, when I bought a thinking cap and wore it for the first time, I figured out how I was tricking myself.  But since that was 'before', presumably all those hours were wasted, in your minds.  Maybe if I tried again, harder, believing more, saying the right words, focusing my chi more, spending more of my day doing it...

The bottom line is, these are your beliefs.  If you want others to share them, you have to give a reason, not patronisingly tell them to go and find their own.  If you want to bring your claim to a board like this and have it discussed, expect the basic questions.


Heartagram, it speaks volumes that you call it an excuse.  The sceptic is appropriately shifting the burden of proof back to the one making the claims.  The one making the claims then echoes the same phraseology, this time as an excuse.  See how it works?



You skeptics wnat us to follow the scientific method...Part of that method, is to retry you're test over and over again..Repition...To prove you're results weren't a one time thing...Listen to you're own preachings... thumbsup.gif

"A believer is a songless bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wings." -Robert G. Ingersoll

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins

#34    Moonie2012

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:48 PM

Heartagram3200 on May 7 2008, 01:45 PM, said:

But Moro...Can you provide any proof that it is not just a trick of the mind? I myself have done things like that to test it many times....One thing I do, is I'll "shell" my psi ball by coating it with a layer of psi outside the ball itself to keep it from disspating..I then set the ball somewhere, and come back, lets say an hour later...I come back, hey, what do you know! I can still feel it! If it was bio-feedback, you'd still have to trick you're mind in order to get the feelings, you're mind wouldn't be able to make u feel the sensations in a matter of milleseconds...


Why do you refuse to understand about proof and who needs to provide it? It's been laid out pretty well in the last few posts.

IT IS UP TO THE CLAIMANT TO PROVIDE PROOF - NOT THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IT.

Edited by Moonie2012, 07 May 2008 - 06:50 PM.


#35    DfizzleShizzle

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:52 PM

But....While we try and find proof, you could try to accomplish the said feats yourself...You all ask the believers to take time out of their day to prove this stuff...But yet you guys can't do it either...

"A believer is a songless bird in a cage, a freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wings." -Robert G. Ingersoll

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins

#36    Moonie2012

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:56 PM

Heartagram3200 on May 7 2008, 01:52 PM, said:

But....While we try and find proof, you could try to accomplish the said feats yourself...You all ask the believers to take time out of their day to prove this stuff...But yet you guys can't do it either...


Our claim is that it doesn't exist. Some of us have even tried. As expected, IT DIDN'T WORK BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST.

YOUR TURN.


#37    WiCkEdWENDIGO

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:56 PM

look im not dis agreeing with any of you but the fact is why are you looking for proof on a fourm?? noone can prove it unless its in real life

i made u a cookie but i eated it

#38    Nucular

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:58 PM

Heartagram3200 on May 7 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

You skeptics wnat us to follow the scientific method...Part of that method, is to retry you're test over and over again..Repition...To prove you're results weren't a one time thing...Listen to you're own preachings... thumbsup.gif

Oh, Heartagram, I think even you realised how wrong that was while you typed it didn't you?

Replication as part of the scientific method is about the consistent repeatability of results, not keeping on having a crack at something until you get the result you're looking for. rolleyes.gif


#39    WiCkEdWENDIGO

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:00 PM

Nucular on May 7 2008, 01:58 PM, said:

Oh, Heartagram, I think even you realised how wrong that was while you typed it didn't you?

Replication as part of the scientific method is about the consistent repeatability of results, not keeping on having a crack at something until you get the result you're looking for. rolleyes.gif

ok.. the only resons skeptics are skeptical is they dont like what they hear so you try to dis prove it and psycic powers are science in fact its ery popular study

i made u a cookie but i eated it

#40    Moonie2012

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:02 PM

It's like you can't even have a rational argument with these people.

I don't know why I bother - arguing against the existence of nonsense powers with the very people who theoretically should be able to prove them, yet WON'T - and they want ME to prove the nonsense exists?

It's like repeatedly bashing your head against a rock and expecting the rock to turn into a pillow eventually.

Edited by Moonie2012, 07 May 2008 - 07:10 PM.


#41    WiCkEdWENDIGO

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:04 PM

Moonie2012 on May 7 2008, 02:02 PM, said:

It's like you can't even have a rational argument with these people.

what people? lol that not discrmitory lol

i made u a cookie but i eated it

#42    Nucular

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:06 PM

WEREGIRL666 on May 7 2008, 08:00 PM, said:

ok.. the only resons skeptics are skeptical is they dont like what they hear so you try to dis prove it

What?  I'd love there to be magic and fairies and pixies and stuff.  In fact it was quite a blow to realise there isn't.

Quote

and psycic powers are science

How so?

Quote

in fact its ery popular study

I have honestly no translation for that.


#43    WiCkEdWENDIGO

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:09 PM

Nucular on May 7 2008, 02:06 PM, said:

What?  I'd love there to be magic and fairies and pixies and stuff.  In fact it was quite a blow to realise there isn't.


How so?


I have honestly no translation for that.

ment to say its a very popular study
im minoring in the powers of the mind it is actually intresting poeple have these powers that everyone has but in certain people they are intensifyed. iots all in the mind focus can make anything happen just like "prayer"..im in this calss now haha Loyola U

Edited by WEREGIRL666, 07 May 2008 - 07:10 PM.

i made u a cookie but i eated it

#44    Dr. D

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:15 PM

KBA on May 5 2008, 08:09 PM, said:

It seems like a lot of people act surprised or upset when they talk about their "powers" here and are met with skepticism from multiple members of U-M. I frankly have to wonder why people would be surprised at such a thing.

Firstly, we need to understand the way the world works.

The world is full of all different types of people who believe all different types of things and feel all different types of emotions, and so on. Now, there's definitely no shortage of people in the world who would agree that the human mind is capable of doing magical and unexplainable things. However, in the modern era of science and reason, there are an increasing number of people who want evidence before they will believe what you're saying.

Nobody inherently deserves trust.

When someone makes a claim that they have a psychic power, it collides with the reality that most of us have been living in and experiencing. In such a reality, it is impossible for the brain to produce magical effects, such as twirling objects, burning things, or accurately guessing what random peoples' favorite color is. It would be the same if I came up to you and told you that your foot is made of jelly. You wouldn't believe it, because you have always understood that your foot is made of blood, bone, muscle, skin, etc.
And you shouldn't believe it! Your foot is not made of jelly! It's good to be skeptical toward things like that, because you have so much evidence saying what your foot is truly made of, and only one quick claim that your foot is made of jelly. It's only reasonable to stick with the scientific explanation.

Now, imagine the brain is our "foot". Many, many people come here and claim that the brain has the ability to perform magic feats. They say: "your brain can do it too!". When you hear something like this, how is it really any different than them telling you your brain is made of jelly? They are stating that the human brain can perform tasks that it has never been shown to be able to perform, and without an apparent means to perform said feat.

So which way do you expect people to sway? In the direction of the person making one quick claim? Or in the direction of hundreds of years of scientific research and evidence? It makes no sense to believe random claims on an internet forum. It ignores the simple principle that the most evident theory is likely the closest to the truth. This is why people ask for a video, or some sort of proof when you do make these claims.

After all, how many people have come on here and said they could do magical things with their minds? Hundreds? Thousands?

How many of those people likely had video recording equipment? Half of them? All of them?

And how many people have offered a video to prove it? Not a single one.

Imagine that I strolled over to this forum claiming with great confidence to have brown hair. I wanted people to believe that I had brown hair... yet nobody would believe me unless I posted proof. What would I do, then? I'd take a quick picture or video to show that I did, in fact, have brown hair. It's a simple process, and it gives credibility to the claim I'm making. Why is this so hard when it comes to psychic powers?

Well, as us skeptics see it, it's because the powers you claim to have do not exist.

You can change our opinion if you really can do it, you just have to be reasonable about it.


Perhaps it's a question of common reason.  While evidences for the paranormal are anemic, the exposure of frauds are abundant.  Apart from that, we have seen some with their "powers" to channel through dead shamans and masters get rich with a snake-medicine audacity.  Fortunately for some, there are always just enough believers to keep their "powers" alive and thriving.


#45    Moonie2012

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:16 PM

WEREGIRL666 on May 7 2008, 02:09 PM, said:

ment to say its a very popular study
im minoring in the powers of the mind it is actually intresting poeple have these powers that everyone has but in certain people they are intensifyed. iots all in the mind focus can make anything happen just like "prayer"..im in this calss now haha Loyola U


There are so many things wrong about this statement - yet to point them out would probably earn me a forum warning.





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