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Chem trails - the facts


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#31    badeskov

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 05:53 PM

glyndowers heir on Jun 3 2008, 10:27 AM, said:

Please to avoid further loss of face for yourself before the UM community step back, take a deep breath and look at the evidence again rather than posting silly scare stories such as this.


I wholeheartedly agree; especially in the face of it was you, Jet, that start the previous thread where all this was explained (as it has been in numerous threads). And you quickly bailed out of that thread, just to start a new thread on exactly the same nonsense (pardon my candor). blink.gif

Honestly, in the next chemtrail thread I would expect to see some serious arguments for what is believed instead of another youtube rampage - although I wouldn't hold my breath.

Cheers,
Badeskov

PS: Glyndower, great posts thumbsup.gif

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#32    Incorrigible1

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 07:21 PM

My father was a combat veteran of 31 missions aboard a B-17. He told me how they used to curse the contrails their formations left, as they were a pointing finger betraying their flight path to the Luftwaffe antiaircraft batteries below.

Edit: those planes dropped bombs, but didn't engage in chemical warfare................

Edited by Incorrigible1, 03 June 2008 - 07:22 PM.

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#33    mrbusdriver

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 07:26 PM

Incorrigible1 on Jun 3 2008, 01:21 PM, said:

My father was a combat veteran of 31 missions aboard a B-17. He told me how they used to curse the contrails their formations left, as they were a pointing finger betraying their flight path to the Luftwaffe antiaircraft batteries below.

Edit: those planes dropped bombs, but didn't engage in chemical warfare................


...and for the people on the ground, seeing a massive man-made cirrus formation coming at 200kts, knowing full well what they were carrying, and their intentions...



#34    Hazzard

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 07:37 PM

In summary, there is no evidence that these "chemtrails" are other than expected, normal contrails from jet aircraft that vary in their shapes, duration, and general presentation based on prevailing weather conditions.

That is not to say that there could not be an occasional, purposeful experimental release of, say, high altitude barium for standard wind tracking experiments. There could also be other related experiments that occur from time to time which release agents into the atmosphere.

Anecdotal stories of persons getting sick after contrails from obviously supersaturated tropospheric conditions lend no basis for belief that there are chemicals or biological agents being released.
This type of story provides as much credence to "chemtrails" as does the belief that drinking milk is causally linked to heroin addiction. (Almost all heroin addicts in the US drank milk as children.)

I contend that there is no visible or other physical evidence of high altitude spraying, and so I do not believe in chemtrails.

The moniker might just as well be applied to contrails, however, for both the visible and invisible (chemical) components of jet exhaust there are cause for at least some concern.




I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#35    glyndowers heir

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 09:35 PM

badeskov on Jun 3 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

I wholeheartedly agree; especially in the face of it was you, Jet, that start the previous thread where all this was explained (as it has been in numerous threads). And you quickly bailed out of that thread, just to start a new thread on exactly the same nonsense (pardon my candor). blink.gif

Honestly, in the next chemtrail thread I would expect to see some serious arguments for what is believed instead of another youtube rampage - although I wouldn't hold my breath.

Cheers,
Badeskov

PS: Glyndower, great posts thumbsup.gif


badeskov
Thank you for your kind comments, one tries ones best tongue.gif

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#36    badeskov

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 10:37 PM

glyndowers heir on Jun 3 2008, 02:35 PM, said:

badeskov
Thank you for your kind comments, one tries ones best tongue.gif


Anytime, credit should be given where credit is due original.gif

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#37    frenat

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 11:27 PM

Persistent contrails have existed and been known about since aircraft could fly high enough.
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/report...ca-wr-l-474.pdf


Reasons why contrails in general and persistant contrails specifically are more prevalent.

1. Jet traffic has doubled a few times since the 70's. It is projected to double again in just 10 years.

2. Jet engines today are more powerful than older models. This means they burn more fuel and consequently have much more water vapor in the exhaust.  More water means thicker and more persistent contrails.

3. Jets travel higher now (on average) partly due to increased traffic and partly due to increased power allowing higher flight. Higher flight means colder air which means more and thicker contrails. Read that study from 1942 for more explanation on this.

4. An increase in traffic increases the exhaust put into the atmosphere. This exhaust has a cumulative effect and results in conditions more conducive to contrail formation over the long run. I've read some studies about it and will try to find them, though not everything is available online.

5. Evidence that airlines have changed their engines can be found in the noise regulations that the FAA has put out. Around 2000, Stage 3 regs went into effect. This is a regulation governing the noise output of jet engines and required every airline to either replace their engines or install hush kits. These newer engines are not only quieter but are more fuel efficient meaning again, more water vapor. Incidentally, Stage 4 regs were due to take effect in January of this year requiring even more changes.  

Proof of persistent contrails from decades past

1981 NOAA photo of contrail at sunset (persistent spreading contrail from 81)
http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/noaacon1981.jpg

Many pictures of persistent contrails here taken from space on early shuttle missions. (starts an autmatic slide show after a few seconds)
http://www.astro.ku.dk/~holger/IDA/STSHH.html

A navigator's log from WWII. Note in particular mission #24 and this quote "The contrails were dense, persistent - really hard to even see our own squadron."
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1393/andy2.html

WWII pilot's diary Note mission #33 particularly where it says “Heavy  dense persistent contrails”
http://www.100thbg.com/mainpages/crews/crews3/jensen.htm

And of course this site specifically showing evidence of persisting contrails well before the 90's
http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-...ding-contrails/

It has some quotes from newspapers in the 40's, 50's, and 70's as well

The News, Frederick, MD, March 7, 1944

“Contrails frequently have a tendency to cause a complete overcast and cause rain. In Idaho I have seen contrails formed in a perfectly clear sky and four hours later a complete overcast resulted“


One of the earliest reference to contrails covering the sky is from the Mansfield News Journal, August 11, 1957, Page 29:

“Within the past few years, the weather bureau has begun to report the trails as actual cloud layers when there are sufficient trails to cover a portion of the sky.”


the Arcadia Tribune, April 29, 1970:

Aircraft contrails begin to streak the normally bright Arizona sky at dawn. Through the day, as air traffic peaks, these contrails gradually merge into and almost solid interlaced sheet of cirrus cloud - an artificial cirrus cloud that is frequently as much as 500 meters deep.

All those people are just lying though right?

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#38    bee

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 11:49 PM

hazzard on Jun 3 2008, 08:37 PM, said:

There could also be other related experiments that occur from time to time which release agents into the atmosphere.


Like this....??  

Link..>>>>Weatherman radar gets jammed by chemtrails-military testing





#39    DBunker

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 01:47 AM

Answer me this...why in the name of God would "they"spray the same air that they and their loved ones breath!!? Not even to mention the obvious that many have already pointed out...spraying at that altitude is pointless.

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#40    JET SAVAGE

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:01 PM

No evidence. Your opinion is valid?

hazzard on Jun 3 2008, 08:37 PM, said:

In summary, there is no evidence that these "chemtrails" are other than expected, normal contrails from jet aircraft that vary in their shapes, duration, and general presentation based on prevailing weather conditions.

That is not to say that there could not be an occasional, purposeful experimental release of, say, high altitude barium for standard wind tracking experiments. There could also be other related experiments that occur from time to time which release agents into the atmosphere.

Anecdotal stories of persons getting sick after contrails from obviously supersaturated tropospheric conditions lend no basis for belief that there are chemicals or biological agents being released.
This type of story provides as much credence to "chemtrails" as does the belief that drinking milk is causally linked to heroin addiction. (Almost all heroin addicts in the US drank milk as children.)

I contend that there is no visible or other physical evidence of high altitude spraying, and so I do not believe in chemtrails.

The moniker might just as well be applied to contrails, however, for both the visible and invisible (chemical) components of jet exhaust there are cause for at least some concern.



I really want UM to grow away from the obvious lies and uninformed reality painters. In plain englishs, where are your facts. let me donate a few against your viewpoint. we have to become serious about this that hovers above all cities, injested by our lungs and is part organic in it's compound natiure. The evidence is within a lengthy scientific video. That follows

Watch this video selection, In the chem trail section. Video# 2 Aerosol Crimes, gives more scientific facts. I MEAN SCIENTIFIC FACTS involving scenes that may shock you into a debunker storm of irrational assunmptions. But at least the debunkers can explain their views scientificlly, YES?

Maybe some comment on the video number two Aerosol Crimes.

http://www.mind-deprogramming.com/mdvj/mdvj.swf


http://www.mind-deprogramming.com/mdvj/mdvj.swf

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#41    JET SAVAGE

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:11 PM

I FOUND A MORE USER FRIENDLY LINK HERE. http://youtube.com/watch?v=bmYyvk9Lp-A

FORWARD IT TO 18 MINUTES  to view the fibres that are the chem trails.

Repeat after me, The Illuminati Brotherhoods are Cowards

#42    badeskov

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:12 PM

JET SAVAGE on Jun 8 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

No evidence. Your opinion is valid?




I really want UM to grow away from the obvious lies and uninformed reality painters. In plain englishs, where are your facts. let me donate a few against your viewpoint. we have to become serious about this that hovers above all cities, injested by our lungs and is part organic in it's compound natiure. The evidence is within a lengthy scientific video. That follows

Watch this video selection, In the chem trail section. Video# 2 Aerosol Crimes, gives more scientific facts. I MEAN SCIENTIFIC FACTS involving scenes that may shock you into a debunker storm of irrational assunmptions. But at least the debunkers can explain their views scientificlly, YES?


The facts have been explained to you numerous times, and the simple physics of vapour trail generation (and why they sometimes remain for long periods of time) is easily comprehendable. But you elegantly skipped posting any reply besides new utterly ridiculous youtube videos.  

Honestly, why don't you get a blog instead of posting here?! You clearly aren't looking for a critical discussion (you either don't want to as you want to keep your beliefs, however ridiculous, intact or you simply don't have the means to engage in a discussion by critically looking at the facts).

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#43    glyndowers heir

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:42 PM

badeskov on Jun 8 2008, 10:12 PM, said:

The facts have been explained to you numerous times, and the simple physics of vapour trail generation (and why they sometimes remain for long periods of time) is easily comprehendable. But you elegantly skipped posting any reply besides new utterly ridiculous youtube videos.  

Honestly, why don't you get a blog instead of posting here?! You clearly aren't looking for a critical discussion (you either don't want to as you want to keep your beliefs, however ridiculous, intact or you simply don't have the means to engage in a discussion by critically looking at the facts).

Cheers,
Badeskov



As you say badeskov, there are many people in this and other threads, who have attempted to reason with Jet but all that happens is that when the water gets too hot (IE when INFORMED people who have experience in this field get the best of him!) he abandons the thread or just trots out another load of old tripe from youtube and away we go again.

The reason he does this is that when reasonable people get fed up with his nonsense and stop responding to him, it reinforces his view that his opinions are correct. IE he thinks he has won the debate when the truth is as far from  this as you can get without warp drive!

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#44    badeskov

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 10:16 PM

glyndowers heir on Jun 8 2008, 02:42 PM, said:

As you say badeskov, there are many people in this and other threads, who have attempted to reason with Jet but all that happens is that when the water gets too hot (IE when INFORMED people who have experience in this field get the best of him!) he abandons the thread or just trots out another load of old tripe from youtube and away we go again.

The reason he does this is that when reasonable people get fed up with his nonsense and stop responding to him, it reinforces his view that his opinions are correct. IE he thinks he has won the debate when the truth is as far from  this as you can get without warp drive!


Yes, glyndower, so I have noticed. There seems to be a pattern to this behavior, as you so point out. A sudden influx of youtube videos (or the like), followed by a few intermittent posts carefully avoiding any discussion of actual facts and then absence, until the whole cycle starts over...baffling, to say the least.

Well, I am certainly not going to keep replying to such nonsense, although I will insert a post here and there wink2.gif

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#45    MID

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 10:32 PM

JET SAVAGE on Jun 8 2008, 04:01 PM, said:

I really want UM to grow away from the obvious lies and uninformed reality painters.




Which means...


You want UM to devolve and get rid of those who understand facts as opposed to conjecture, and who realize the difference between hypothesis and fact.
"Obvious lies" is a common CT device used to attempt to refute the litterate, rational, logical, and scientifically inclined populus who realize that this chemtrail nonsense is simply that...

You want UM to become a repository of CTs...someplace easy to come and post nonsense, someplace where you won't get an earful when you make conjectural statements about nonsense like chemtrails...

I get it.






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