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Chem trails - the facts


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#91    frenat

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 10:57 PM

Airdale on Jun 28 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

i never said anything nefarious was happening? nor did i say they were spraying anything, just said to watch the skies above you and make your own decision...how much do you get payed to defend this? your very consistent frenat.
you see i never said anything was being done............just posed a few thoughts,it was you who decided that i was listening to someone or something? why is that? do you always assume peoples positions ?

and to the other chap i didnt say that anything WAS dangerous if this was a larger scale weather mod? all i said is that it could BE a larger scale weather mod.............which it COULD .......where does that say its "bad"? and 747 i didnt say anything sinister was happening did i? no i dont believe i did

wow what a fervor you all exhibit when attacking others post when it comes to certain things....you all have assumed much and taken many liberties with what i have posted not uncommon of paid de-bunkers or govt drones? perhaps some of you are in this category? or maybe not just a thought i had.

Any proof that I am "payed" (sic) to post?  No?  Then kindly keep your untruthful accuations to yourself.  As I have said before, I post on this subject because of a love of aviation.  The fact that some choose to believe in "chemtrails" when they are completely unsupported by fact bothers me as I and I'm sure many others do not like o see ignorance being spread about a subject they love.  I and others have posted nothing but facts to correct ignorance.  That you have take offense so easily is quite telling.

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#92    Airdale

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 11:12 PM

frenat on Jun 28 2008, 05:57 PM, said:

Any proof that I am "payed" (sic) to post?  No?  Then kindly keep your untruthful accuations to yourself.  As I have said before, I post on this subject because of a love of aviation.  The fact that some choose to believe in "chemtrails" when they are completely unsupported by fact bothers me as I and I'm sure many others do not like o see ignorance being spread about a subject they love.  I and others have posted nothing but facts to correct ignorance.  That you have take offense so easily is quite telling.

why i havent taken any offense at all?
again you assume .accusations? i stated clearly in my last lines that it was just a "thought" i had? you can be as arrogant ,and know it all, as you'd like. It really has no bearing on my life. See how fervorus ,and incensed ,you have become? I was simply stating a few things that i had thought ,or noticed, and you began with YOUR accusations, and assumptions! How about you try and keep them to YOURSELF for a change? I have read many of your post in this web forum, you seem to always play the same cards.

And im quite sure that you do work for the government .I have no doubt of this, you have stated so yourself right on this very webforum. anyone can find the post and see it for themselves. your love of aviation is directly tied to your job is it not? yes i thought so, quit expending so much angry energy, it isnt very becoming of you and it frankly seems to make one wonder why it is you are so ferverent in your counter attacks on posters to this forum

Edited by Airdale, 28 June 2008 - 11:14 PM.


#93    frenat

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 11:21 PM

Airdale on Jun 28 2008, 08:12 PM, said:

why i havent taken any offense at all?
again you assumeaccusations i stated clearly in my last lines that it was just a "thought" i had you can be as arrogant and know it all as youd like it really has no bearing on my life. see how fervorus and incensed you have become? i was simply stating a few things that i had thought or noticed and you began with YOUR accusations and assumptions ,how about you try and keep them to YOURSELF for a change? i have read many of your post in this web forum you seem to always play the same cards.

And im quite sure that you do work for the government .i have no doubt of this you have stated so yourself righ on this very webforum. anyone can find the post and see it for themselves. your love of aviation is directly tied to your job is it not? yes i thought so quit expending so much angry energy it isnt very becoming of you and it frankly seems to make one wonder why it is you are so ferverent in your counter attacks on posters to this forum

You definitely appear to have taken offense.  That you think you have worked us into a fervor is part of it.  I of course could be wrong and if so, I apologize.  I am quite calm and finding your posts actually rather humorous.  The "card" you are playing is the most humorous of all.  The one where those that disagree with you must be paid to do so.  Usually a last defense of the desperate.

Did I say I did not work for the government?  No.  But I am not paid by them to post here or anywhere else.  Again, I post here on this subject simply because of a love of aviation.  The only "angry" words I have typed (and hardly angry at all really, projection on your part maybe?) were against your insulting accusation that I must be paid to post here.  An accusation you have made with absolutely no evidence.  The rest has been calmly answering questions or posting factual information in an attempt (a fruitless attempt is seems) to fight ignorance.  

Again, your posts are rather humorous.  If that is your intent then keep it up.

Edited by frenat, 28 June 2008 - 11:23 PM.

-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
-Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
-If I wanted to pay for commercials I couldn't skip I'd sign up for Hulu Plus.
-There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.
If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly. - Danth's Law

#94    Airdale

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 11:35 PM

frenat on Jun 28 2008, 06:21 PM, said:

You definitely appear to have taken offense.  That you think you have worked us into a fervor is part of it.  I of course could be wrong and if so, I apologize.  I am quite calm and finding your posts actually rather humorous.  The "card" you are playing is the most humorous of all.  The one where those that disagree with you must be paid to do so.  Usually a last defense of the desperate.

Did I say I did not work for the government?  No.  But I am not paid by them to post here or anywhere else.  Again, I post here on this subject simply because of a love of aviation.  The only "angry" words I have typed (and hardly angry at all really, projection on your part maybe?) were against your insulting accusation that I must be paid to post here.  An accusation you have made with absolutely no evidence.  The rest has been calmly answering questions or posting factual information in an attempt (a fruitless attempt is seems) to fight ignorance.  

Again, your posts are rather humorous.  If that is your intent then keep it up.

disagree with me? i havent implored anyone to agree with me? not in the least bit.one can still be calm in a ferverent attack much like you have shown. Yet look how you cling to the thread like a hungry walleye talk about humorous. waiting for each post, to exude your prowess upon those whom you do not agree with.

Wow what an insulting accusation ....one would generally laugh this accusation off and move on.....why is it so "insulting to a man of your military stature? Yes we all know you work for the government frenat ,your an airforce man . that has been discussed here at this forum has it not?

Again ignorance? you have yet to demonstrate where it was that i was saying anything nefarious, or dangerous was occurring? all i said is that it COULD be related to larger scale weather modification experiments? And then i only said it "COULD" not that it was? so then my stating that is is possible that something is being done is ignorant? wow talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

your the one who is so humorous and i thank you for the great laugh

Aim High Buddy Aim High



#95    frenat

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Posted 28 June 2008 - 11:54 PM

Airdale on Jun 28 2008, 08:35 PM, said:

disagree with me? i havent implored anyone to agree with me? not in the least bit.one can still be calm in a ferverent attack much like you have shown. Yet look how you cling to the thread like a hungry walleye talk about humorous. waiting for each post, to exude your prowess upon those whom you do not agree with.

Wow what an insulting accusation ....one would generally laugh this accusation off and move on.....why is it so "insulting to a man of your military stature? Yes we all know you work for the government frenat ,your an airforce man . that has been discussed here at this forum has it not?

Again ignorance? you have yet to demonstrate where it was that i was saying anything nefarious, or dangerous was occurring? all i said is that it COULD be related to larger scale weather modification experiments? And then i only said it "COULD" not that it was? so then my stating that is is possible that something is being done is ignorant? wow talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

your the one who is so humorous and i thank you for the great laugh

Aim High Buddy Aim High

Cling to the thread?  How?  I happen to be on the computer, get an email that there is a post and go to look at it.  Amazing how technology works!  

Why should you have to implore anyone to agree with you to have those that don't?

Yes, it is insulting to be accused of being paid to post something.  It implies that what I am posting I do not have a great interest in already and further implies that what I am posting is not factual.

And again you bring up my job.  I have not denied that I work for the Air Force so why are you making such a big deal out of it?  What I do deny is that my employment with the Air Force has anything to do with my posting here.  That you have mentioned it repeatedly seems to indicate that you think it does.  Seems rather insecure of you.

Anyone that believes in "chemtrails" is in my opinion ignorant.  Perhaps you could point out where I called you ignorant?  Or that you believe in "chemtrails"?  Or when I ever said you stated something nefarious or dangerous was occuring?  Why should I demonstrate you said something when I never accused you of saying it in the first place?  I will admit that my first post to you had some words that were slightly controversial but they were not directed towards you.  It was a copy/paste from another post made on another forum intended to get the quotes from the website in there.  I have now edited it to be closer to the original intent.

-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
-Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
-If I wanted to pay for commercials I couldn't skip I'd sign up for Hulu Plus.
-There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.
If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly. - Danth's Law

#96    Airdale

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 12:29 AM

Hilarious




#97    frenat

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 01:53 AM

Airdale on Jun 28 2008, 09:29 PM, said:

Hilarious

Yes, it is hilarious that you were arguing with me about things I never said.  That is, if you're not going to answer these questions

Quote

Perhaps you could point out where I called you ignorant? Or that you believe in "chemtrails"? Or when I ever said you stated something nefarious or dangerous was occuring? Why should I demonstrate you said something when I never accused you of saying it in the first place?

I hope we're past that now.

Regarding your previous statements about weather control,

Quote

there have been weather modification experiments being conducted in this and many other countries since the late 1950's cloud seeding is regularly practiced as well as hail abatement and drought reduction these are all real sciences practiced daily....who is to say there is NO experimentation in these areas on a larger scale?

Yes, there is some weather modification (debates rage on about the efficiency of cloud seeding and the like, it doesn't always work but that is a topic for another time)  and there "could" be weather modification on a larger scale going on but there is no evidence for it ocurring, especially on such a large scale.  Also of note is that most of the trails people point to and say "chemtrail" are clearly coming from commercial traffic.  These trails persist (the major reason "chemtrail" believers say they aren't normal contrails in opposition of over 70 years of science) in the very conditions (altitude, humidity, temperature, etc.) one would expect them to.  They are backed up by the aforementioned 70+ years of science and study and are well understood.  There is really no evidence that the trails we see in the sky are anything other than normal contrails.

-Reality is not determined by your lack of comprehension.
-Never let facts stand in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
-If I wanted to pay for commercials I couldn't skip I'd sign up for Hulu Plus.
-There are no bad ideas, just great ideas that go horribly wrong.
If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly. - Danth's Law

#98    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 07:16 AM

Airdale on Jun 28 2008, 11:48 PM, said:

i never said anything nefarious was happening? nor did i say they were spraying anything, just said to watch the skies above you and make your own decision...how much do you get payed to defend this? your very consistent frenat.
you see i never said anything was being done............just posed a few thoughts,it was you who decided that i was listening to someone or something? why is that? do you always assume peoples positions ?

and to the other chap i didnt say that anything WAS dangerous if this was a larger scale weather mod? all i said is that it could BE a larger scale weather mod.............which it COULD .......where does that say its "bad"? and 747 i didnt say anything sinister was happening did i? no i dont believe i did

wow what a fervor you all exhibit when attacking others post when it comes to certain things....you all have assumed much and taken many liberties with what i have posted not uncommon of paid de-bunkers or govt drones? perhaps some of you are in this category? or maybe not just a thought i had.

If you don't mind me saying, you seem to be remarkably defensive for one who claims that don't have a conspiracy theory to promote.
Accusing people of being "ferverent" and angry and such like. "paid de-bunkers or govt drones"? That from someone who doesn't have a conspiracy to push?

Airdale on Jun 29 2008, 12:12 AM, said:

why i havent taken any offense at all?
again you assume .accusations? i stated clearly in my last lines that it was just a "thought" i had? you can be as arrogant ,and know it all, as you'd like. It really has no bearing on my life. See how fervorus ,and incensed ,you have become? I was simply stating a few things that i had thought ,or noticed, and you began with YOUR accusations, and assumptions! How about you try and keep them to YOURSELF for a change? I have read many of your post in this web forum, you seem to always play the same cards.

And im quite sure that you do work for the government .I have no doubt of this, you have stated so yourself right on this very webforum. anyone can find the post and see it for themselves. your love of aviation is directly tied to your job is it not? yes i thought so, quit expending so much angry energy, it isnt very becoming of you and it frankly seems to make one wonder why it is you are so ferverent in your counter attacks on posters to this forum

I think it's you that seems remarkably ferverous, if you don't mind my saying.

?



Edited by 747400, 29 June 2008 - 07:19 AM.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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:cat:


#99    Newsworthy

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 03:54 PM

Waspie_Dwarf on Jun 10 2008, 02:56 AM, said:

You didn't look very hard did you? The answer is yes.

Below are two photographs taken in London during the Battle of Britain in 1940 (I think you will find that is a bit before 1980).

Oh look, LOTS of long white lines in the sky.

linked-image linked-image


WOW great pics WD,did you just Google St Pauls+contrails?





#100    MID

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:02 PM

Airdale on Jun 28 2008, 03:08 PM, said:

As for the pictures that many have brought forth as theyre "proof" to the contrary you have all seemed to skip one fact that concerns these WW2 photos. these were all PISTON powered regular engined Bombers none of these are or were JET aircraft. there are many reasons that these would produce more voluminous amounts of contrails mainly the fuel air mixture being burned for starters and the fuel type for seconds


The more voluminous contrails are a function of the number of aircraft involved in producing them.  Dozens of them certainly , all in the same area at the same time.

Piston aircraft produce propeller tip contrails which are a phenomena produced by lowered pressure and temperature at the propeller tips, not by exhaust.
What you're seeing is a collection of these...(B-17 tip contrails)

linked-image

As to whether they are more voluminous that jet exhaust contrails, this photo might propose a reasonable argument against that idea (747 exhaust contrails).

linked-image


#101    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:47 PM

Those are some very awesome pictures.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


:cat:


#102    MID

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 06:07 PM

747400 on Jun 29 2008, 01:47 PM, said:

Those are some very awesome pictures.




Yea, they're great, huh?

Classic illustrations of two types of high altitude connies.
That's your name sake at the bottom.  I like the rainbow effect in the connie there, and you rarely see a contrail formed from that vantage point...close to and above the airplane at the flight levels...


They are pretty massive clouds!







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