What if our world was merely a simulation?

[Aero 360]

Scientists agree that there is a 20% chance of us living in a simulated reality. Maybe all of this is just a program running on a super computer ran by post-humans or an advanced alien civilization. I mean think about it, just think about how Earth is SO "coincidentally" well-fit for life, and how we got here which was completely luck.

I'm a video game fan, and I play games constantly. There's one quote that really makes me ponder. It's this: "Do you ever feel like you're not in charge of your own destiny, like...you're being controlled by an invisible hand?"

That makes me think... How do I know I'm not being controlled, and that all of this isn't some insane MMO played by advanced aliens who get entertainment out of all this, much like we get entertainment out of controlling a character in a game?

There could be a chance also that this is all one massive MMO, sure, it's far-fetched and sounds stupid, but I like thinking about it. I mean how does my character in a particular game know he's controlled? What if he thinks everything he does is on his free will, everything he says he just randomly thinks up, and when I log him off he's asleep or in a state of limbo? I mean someone could be making me type this, but the program is making me believe I'm actually typing this on my free will.

Another fun question is that if our creators in the "physical world", are they REALLY in the real world? Or yet another simulated reality? Will we get to the point of running a simulated reality, a universe such as the Sims series, but much more evolved? Yes, actually, we will, very soon we will have computers fast enough to run such a program, and we will be able to see our own little worlds, evolving, growing, and perhaps living long enough to make their own simulated reality. And then the process repeats.

Simulation-argument.com

Edited June 19, 2008 by Aero 360

[1.618]

What difference would it make if we were in a simulation? Things would still be the same.

[Sag!ttarius]

Maybe all of this is just a program running on a super computer ran by post-humans or an advanced alien civilization.

Thank your lucky star, it's not running on an XP/Vista box it would seem...

[Aero 360]

Thank your lucky star, it's not running on an XP/Vista box it would seem...

[widowerson]

I think if it all was just an "program" running its course it wouldn't be known to us

even if it were how would one go about proving it. Would "the creator" be "god"? if so the implication of destiny or fate still wouldn't be pre determined imo

i also am a gamer and think about this too

too much sometimes

my family thinks i am totally crazy, that in itself could be them living the illusion of reality. Perception is a crazy thing

[John from Lowell]

Yes, Perception is a crazy thing.

Could it be that our reality is not only a simulation but that there are many ways to see it because we all seem to have a different subjective view of it.

John

[Finsup22]

Kinda like The Matrix? So what your saying is there is no spoon?

You might enjoy reading Plato's, Allegory of the Cave, It's kinda like what your saying.

[Hocus]

i completley agree with you guys on this. i think its very possible indeed. for the gamers look at the new grand theft auto as a great example, a living breathing city with people going to work doing ,hobbies ,dating etc all that stuff we do in our day to day lives but its simulated. how do we know ours isnt. i doubt we would know anyway. if you look at like was said in a earlier post isnt life oh so perfect maybe a little too perfect? i think we are exactly how the matrix is there is a real world which may be in ruins or may not but what we are living now is a simulation. the big question how do you define reality? you cant.

[AngelOfMusic]

I have thought about our world being like the Sims a lot, but i'm not sure on my opinions about it really. What i can't see happening is that the Sims or Grand heft Auto or something like that is really a "real" life simulation ad people think on there, as the creators wouldn't know about it. And even if it just happened, without the creators knowing about it, what made it happen?

Angel x

[Rosewin]

So we are just part of an MMO and some 13 year-old-kid or 30-year-old guy in Alpha Centauri, the real one not the one in our simulation, is putting thoughts in my head and making me type?

What about this theory...that instead of existing on someone's hard drive that we are being controlled but not by something bigger than us but something smaller. Think of bacteria, or even smaller, DNA, controlling us, or neurochemicals controlling us. We are at their whim, they provide our thoughts, decide if we like someone or not, make us feel sleepy, etc...

If the game is like .hack then maybe we are the dungeon monsters and someone from outside the game has come in who we will call the aliens.

Or maybe the game is like Soul Reaver 2 where like Kain says that the fate of the world is replayed many times but like a coin it will always land heads or tails but both are not ideal situations but suppose one day the coin lands on its edge.

Or maybe it is like as Tomie said in one of the J-Horror movies. That we never truly no anyone, we never know ourselves, we are just the sum of our actions, but those actions are just past memories, and how can that define us?

I have transcripts to both of the Soul Reaver 2 and Tomie dialogue if anyone is interested. It is way more interesting than what I could describe.

But such concepts are nice to think of but if we are some MMORPG or an console RPG how many times has the server crashed or has the game been restarted respectively? Either way I demand an upgrade, the Sword of Terra, the Shield of Sol, and lots more shekels...and also that U-M is made into a combat zone so I can begin PKing peeps.

[Blue Box]

I've honestly thought about this especially after I've played The Sims for a while. It is entirely possible, it makes perfect sense to me at times too. I have the feeling though that if this is for real, that the thing that's in charge of me has to find me really boring and maybe thats why they have hacks in the game to "smite" me every so often. It's not the typical smite though it's not like the killing kind it's more of the make your life even more miserable then before and watch you squirm type deal. I admit I do this to my own sims although I do it in different way. LOL I've always joked about the possibility, and I often wonder if it's true. If so what can we do? Not really much of anything because the the thing that is in charge only sees us as a computer program and nothing with feelings or anything that is truly real.

Edited June 21, 2008 by Ambrosia~Ismene

[iSeeDeadPpl!]

I agree. life's much too complex

[WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT]

then Im grateful for the dry run...so Im sure to get it absolutly right next time!

[S2F]

If our existence was some MMO, then what happens when the other entities that play "us" log off? Is that when we sleep? Then why is it that most people only sleep at night? And why would 6 billion aliens play some MMO all day when they could be doing things for real? Maybe I missed the point of this thread, but there are too many questions unanswered by this theory.

[Arcanus.]

Scientists agree that there is a 20% chance of us living in a simulated reality. Maybe all of this is just a program running on a super computer ran by post-humans or an advanced alien civilization. I mean think about it, just think about how Earth is SO "coincidentally" well-fit for life, and how we got here which was completely luck.

Firstly, I would like to question the 20%. How did you get that? Why do scientists come to this conclusion? Do they have any facts?

Another fun question is that if our creators in the "physical world", are they REALLY in the real world? Or yet another simulated reality? Will we get to the point of running a simulated reality, a universe such as the Sims series, but much more evolved? Yes, actually, we will, very soon we will have computers fast enough to run such a program, and we will be able to see our own little worlds, evolving, growing, and perhaps living long enough to make their own simulated reality. And then the process repeats.

Actually, such program is almost reality - I don't quite remember the name of the program, it's one of the Sims' series, but it's another game with another name (it has lots of likenesses with The Sims series, other than you can evolve the whole universe) and it doesn't require that much 'computer resource'.

I've been thinking of this also, even a more evolved thinking... what if, the aliens that 'run' you, closes the program? Will time stop? Why, then, when you sleep, you woke up always right at six in the morning?

[Dragohunter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat

A similar question has been asked by skeptists in the Brain in a vat theory.

In the field of epistemology, Putnam is known for his "brain in a vat" thought experiment (a modernized version of Descartes' evil demon hypothesis). The argument is that one cannot coherently state that one is a disembodied "brain in a vat" placed there by some "mad scientist".

This follows from the causal theory of reference. Words always refer to the kinds of things they were coined to refer to, thus the kinds of things their user, or her ancestors, experienced. So, if some person, Mary, were a "brain in a vat", whose every experience is received through wiring and other gadgetry created by the "mad scientist", then Mary's idea of a "brain" would not refer to a "real" brain, since she and her linguistic community have never seen such a thing. Rather, she saw something that looked like a brain, but was actually an image fed to her through the wiring. Similarly, her idea of a "vat" would not refer to a "real" vat. So, if, as a "brain in a vat", she were to say "I'm a brain in a vat", she would actually be saying "I'm a brain-image in a vat-image", which is incoherent. On the other hand, if she is not a "brain in a vat", then saying that she is still incoherent, but now because she actually means the opposite. This is a form of epistemological externalism: knowledge or justification depends on factors outside the mind and is not solely determined internally.

Putnam has clarified that his real target in this argument was never skepticism, but metaphysical realism.[34] Since realism of this kind assumes the existence of a gap between how man conceives the world and the way the world really is, skeptical scenarios such as this one (or Descartes' Evil demon) present a formidable challenge. Putnam, by showing that such a scenario is impossible, attempts to show that this notion of a gap between man's concept of the world and the way it is in itself is absurd. Man cannot have a "God's eye" view of reality. He is limited to his conceptual schemes. Metaphysical realism is therefore false, according to Putnam.

[Chasexc]

This reminds of what i think was an episode from the Twilight Zone where we were in a program and someone was controlling us, all i remember though is the ending and it creeped me out

[Sypherius]

If our existence was some MMO, then what happens when the other entities that play "us" log off? Is that when we sleep? Then why is it that most people only sleep at night? And why would 6 billion aliens play some MMO all day when they could be doing things for real? Maybe I missed the point of this thread, but there are too many questions unanswered by this theory.

If you've ever read the trilogy The Circle, you'd have a clue. Time does not progress the way here it does there. In the 16 hours I am awake a day, someone could be playing me only 5 minutes. Confusingly, though, if you take a look at GTA, the way time there progresses maybe 60x faster than real-time, it wouldn't make sense in our world. It took that kid 5 minutes to play 16 hours of my life away? It took him, what, 68 and a half hours to play 12 minutes of my life the next day? But then, perhaps there's a way to adjust time here.

You just can't answer that question. It's a question of how creative the simulator allows the player to be and how it's programmed, neither of which we may ever be able to find out.

[TheLivingDead]

If this were true, then I feel sorry for the person controlling me. They have quite a boring and uneventful character, though they do reward me and my husband occassionally with nice trips around the country!

[BabelPlatz]

Oh Nick Bostrom you ka-ray-zay guy you!

I agree with those above me: From an instrumental or operational perspective, it woulndt really matter if this is a simulation or not.

In a sense it is;ready s as we all inhabit a virtual simulation of an "objective world" out there....maybe.....

Either way, doesnt matter....

If it was a simulation and it were turned off (us along with it) the question would be utterly moot.

[Oderint]

if this is a computer program, it's got loads of bugs and crappy coding.

can't wait for the next patch though, as long as it's not Earth version 21.12.2012

Edited July 16, 2008 by Prawus

[Blue Box]

if this is a computer program, it's got loads of bugs and crappy coding.

can't wait for the next patch though, as long as it's not Earth version 21.12.2012

Ehh....you just described EAxis (EA formally Maxis that ran the Sims projects) to a tee. Now, I'm really worried that this is all a game though it would explain alot that has went on in my life........it's just kinda creepy to think about.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Blue Box

[JustNormal]

Maybe we are dead, and the "ghosts" we speak of so often are actually alive? Ever think of that? JN

[Arcanus.]

Wait a minute. If we are only a MMO played by some teenager alien from another universe or another physical existence of being, why would we be talking this? Would "our controller" permit it?

[Oderint]

Maybe we are dead, and the "ghosts" we speak of so often are actually alive? Ever think of that? JN

Seen "The Others"?

But yeah, who knows, maybe WE are the real ghosts. stuck in time without knowing it's actually someone elses past.

Wait a minute. If we are only a MMO played by some teenager alien from another universe or another physical existence of being, why would we be talking this? Would "our controller" permit it?

They would probably have lots of fun reading what their creations talk about