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I want A debunker to try to Debunk this


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#31    Enigma wrapped in a puzzle

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:26 PM

Siara on Jun 20 2008, 12:21 PM, said:

Exactly.  As someone who welds steel on a daily basis I can tell you that the temperature at which steel loses its strength is WAY below the melting point.



How far below?  Lets see how much you know about it.  They have steel engineers interviewed in the video who talk all about it.  


So lets test your knowledge.

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#32    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:32 PM

You're determined to get people to watch your hour and a half long video, aren't you? tongue.gif

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#33    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 03:36 PM

Enigma wrapped in a puzzle on Jun 20 2008, 04:23 PM, said:

This video does not even discuss the flight patterns or the terrorists.  It talks almost exclusively about the how the demo was used and a very strong idea on how it was put into place.   It also talks to several engineers and even the interview with the trade center architect/engineer.  It also has eye witness account from people who work in the offices and the basement workers.   There is alot more and I highly recommend watching it.

ye gods, an hour and a half and it doesn't even discuss what some, perhaps, might consider a fairly important aspect? Instead it sounds like it just talks about the same old things that people have been arguing about on the various 9/11 threads here, for what seems like forever, then.  Well, thanks for the précis , anyway.

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#34    jaylemurph

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 04:51 PM

Quote

Exactly. As someone who welds steel on a daily basis I can tell you that the temperature at which steel loses its strength is WAY below the melting point.


Ye gads, woman, what are you trying to do?! Inject actual working knowledge into a 9/11 thread? What on Earth are you trying to accomplish?

Everybody knows the /only/ way to prove things is referring to a poorly-made documentary on Youtube that cites people with no discernible credentials. Direct, personal knowledge means nothing. I bet you really work for the Secret Bad US Shadow Government that was behind 9/11. You're a disinformant, right?!!!?!

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Edit: Excuse me. I see Enigma beat me to the punch.

Edited by jaylemurph, 20 June 2008 - 04:51 PM.

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#35    Cradle of Fish

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 04:59 PM

Enigma wrapped in a puzzle on Jun 20 2008, 04:12 PM, said:

Cradlefish your point is that they are not capable of pulling this off because Bush is incompetent.   Well my answer is that if 30% of the population feel that 9/11 was an inside job with more and more people every day adding to that 30%.   Then I would say they didn't pull it off.


And 45% of the US thinks that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, who are you really going to trust. If so many people believe something that is so contrary to reality, that doesn't mean they're right, it means they're uninformed.

Edited by Cradle of Fish, 20 June 2008 - 05:02 PM.

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#36    Enigma wrapped in a puzzle

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 05:08 PM

Cradle of Fish on Jun 20 2008, 05:59 PM, said:

And 45% of the US thinks that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, who are you really going to trust. If so many people believe something that is so contrary to reality, that doesn't mean they're right, it means they're uninformed.



The 45% your referring to are religious people who were raised this way.  The 30% I am talking are people who find faults in what is being pushed on us.

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#37    truthist

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 06:10 PM

Enigma wrapped in a puzzle on Jun 20 2008, 08:08 PM, said:

The 45% your referring to are religious people who were raised this way.  The 30% I am talking are people who find faults in what is being pushed on us.

That's pretty optimistic. In every movement, there's the 1% that thinks and the rest that just follows. Most of that 30% is just regurgitating the faults (and "faults") that a handful of people pointed out. Having a lot of sheep in your herd just means that the idea you're pushing is attractive.

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#38    Enigma wrapped in a puzzle

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 06:22 PM

truthist on Jun 20 2008, 07:10 PM, said:

That's pretty optimistic. In every movement, there's the 1% that thinks and the rest that just follows. Most of that 30% is just regurgitating the faults (and "faults") that a handful of people pointed out. Having a lot of sheep in your herd just means that the idea you're pushing is attractive.



The door swings both ways, so whats your point?

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#39    Cradle of Fish

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 06:37 PM

Enigma wrapped in a puzzle on Jun 20 2008, 06:08 PM, said:

The 45% your referring to are religious people who were raised this way.  The 30% I am talking are people who find faults in what is being pushed on us.


Yet they don't find even more obvious faults in the conspiracy theory they embrace.

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#40    flyingswan

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 06:48 PM

Enigma wrapped in a puzzle on Jun 20 2008, 04:26 PM, said:

How far below?  Lets see how much you know about it.  They have steel engineers interviewed in the video who talk all about it.  


So lets test your knowledge.

As Siara seems to be away, perhaps I could draw your attention to this, which certainly backs up what Siara said:
"Strength loss for steel is generally accepted to begin at about 300ºC and increases rapidly after 400ºC, by 550ºC steel retains about 60% of its room temperature yield strength. This is usually considered to be the failure temperature for structural steel."
http://www.azobuild.com/details.asp?ArticleID=3621

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#41    el midgetron

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 07:04 PM


The Government called the fact that there were "drills" taking place that were simular to the 911 attacks a "bizarre coincident". On 7/7, UK crisis management specialist Peter Powers said the terrorist attacks "almost precisely" matched the drills they were having. I don't understand how people can know that when the bombs went off in london, there was a government drill involving bombs on the exact same trains and bus, without questioning what they have been told.

Thomas Kean, the chairman of the 9/11 Commission explained the commission's failure to follow the money trail of the 9/11 hijackers by saying it was "of little practical significance". Tony Blair said an investigation into the 7/7 bombings would be a "ludicrous diversion". And yet, some people still have no questions even though in some cases no answers have even been sought.


Cradle of Fish on Jun 20 2008, 07:12 AM, said:

I'll debunk it without even watching it.

To believe that you also have to believe:

1) George W. Bush and his administration, who have mismanaged two wars, one horribly, while neglecting the other, and was partially responsible for the aftermath of Katrina, could have organised something like this and not have one single hint escape. You also have to believe that one of the most corrupt administrations ever, with all it's scandals and crooks could have kept the secret for at least seven years, without some disillusioned crook trying to get the story out. And if you don't believe that, you have to believe in some mythical secret society that has absolutely no evidence for it's existance. And I'm sorry, but paranoid rantings trying to link the seal on the American dollar bill to rich and private(nothing wrong with wanting privacy) businessmen.

2) You have to believe that the US is more of a threat to your life than the global and violent Islamic radical movement, responsible for the Madrid and London bombings, embassy bombings in africa, Pan Am flight 103, murdering Theo van Gogh and attempting to murder Salman Rushdie, not to mention random acts of violence around the world, and within their own country.

You have every right to believe whatever you want, no matter how contradictory it is to reality, but don't expect anyone to be convinced.


1) To believe this you have to believe all of europe can be liberated in less time than peace can be brought to a country smaller than texas. It only looks like the war has been mismanaged, never mind the man behind the curtian. Never mind the neco-con think tank Project for a New American Century clearly siad they wanted an expanded millitary presence in the ME and even named Saddams regime as a target before 9/11. Never mind the two countrys that were likened to the Nazi regime flank the new country they liken to the nazi regime on both sides. I guess its another "bizarre coincident" that if he "have" to attack Iran, that we just happen to have them surrounded. We are not fighting for anything over there, its an occupation and the continuing violence is the justification.

2) You have a better chance of being struck by lightning than you do of being killed in a terrorist attack and yet its has brought what was once considered the greatest country in the world to its knees. Its rather embaressing.

No one is claiming there aren't terrorist, no one is claiming all attacks have been inside jobs. Just because there are bears in the woods doesn't mean everything with fur and four paws is a bear. However, I frankly do think the government is more of a threat to my life than these "terrorists". Government is a dangerous servant and a fearful master and to meny people are willing to accept whatever they have been told without question. Its not our job to to be yes-men to the people we elect, its our job to make sure they do their job and are accountible to the the people. The majority of Americans have questions about the attacks of 9/11 and we deserve answers.

Cradle of Fish on Jun 20 2008, 05:59 PM, said:

And 45% of the US thinks that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, who are you really going to trust. If so many people believe something that is so contrary to reality, that doesn't mean they're right, it means they're uninformed.


In other words, you decide whats "reality" and everyone else must conform to your perception? When Newton first explained that white light was not "pure" but rather it consisted of a spectrum of colors people thought he was a nut. So even if everyone believes something which is contrary to "reality" it still means they are uninformed. So, how do you know you have it all figured out and that your version of reality is factual? The folks in your camp on this issue don't even have questions by which they could confirm of dis-prove their reality, its just been handed to them and accepted no questions asked.

Clovis on Jun 20 2008, 11:45 AM, said:

Reread MID's first post and look closely at his first and last comments in that post. It is unlikely anyone would want to carry out a discussion with him, not me that is for sure.


It is a pointless exercise. In my last discussion with him, his argument consisted of defending someone by contradicting that persons own version of the incident, claiming people deserve it when the government does bad things and that adopted people have no claim to family titles like "father" or "son". It was actually kind of creepy.



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#42    Cradle of Fish

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 07:48 PM

Quote

In other words, you decide whats "reality" and everyone else must conform to your perception? When Newton first explained that white light was not "pure" but rather it consisted of a spectrum of colors people thought he was a nut. So even if everyone believes something which is contrary to "reality" it still means they are uninformed. So, how do you know you have it all figured out and that your version of reality is factual? The folks in your camp on this issue don't even have questions by which they could confirm of dis-prove their reality, its just been handed to them and accepted no questions asked.


That's right, compare yourself to Newton. It's all a game for you, I know it, if you truly believed that your government murdered 3000 people just to start a war in Iraq(which they were probably going to do anyway, whether 9/11 happened or not), why are you on the internet where they can find you, wouldn't it be wise to be hiding and stockpiling weapons and like minded people to protect yourself from this monster?

As for reality, nope, I don't decide what's reality. It's out there, the Earth is 4.54 billion years old or so, and while I agree with freedom of thought and everyone's right to believe what they want, people who believe that the Earth is ten thousand years old are wrong, there's no nice way to say it, they are wrong, and either uninformed or willfully ignorant.

What reality is was decided before I was born and it will go on after I die, and I know for a fact that I cannot influence it in any way. The reality is, a bunch of washed up celebrities, uninformed and docile civilians, and fringe scientists and engineers are most likely wrong, and people who actually know what they're talking about are right. I think some people are so willing to believe that their government is evil and out to get them they will believe the most ridiculous things imaginable, and suspend every ounce of reason and critical thought in their body to do so.

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#43    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 08:03 PM

Just a thought that's occurred to me from time to time: now, supposing that the conspiracy theory is true for a moment. Who was it done by? The Bush adminsitration? or the NWO and/or the Illuminati or any of the other various secret world government theories?  I just wonder if someone might be able to clarify that point for me?

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#44    S2F

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 08:22 PM

Does anyone really think its plausible that the US government had anything to do with 9/11, considering the fact that ANY evidence that could draw the link between them could potentially topple the government? The Bushies and what not may be stupid, but they're not THAT stupid. If it was shown that the US was behind 9/11 there would be a coup, of that you can be sure. I just don't see the gamble being worth the risk. They could have used other reasons to justify invading Iraq without something so potentially dangerous to themselves.

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#45    Rosewin

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Posted 20 June 2008 - 08:29 PM

Obviousman on Jun 20 2008, 09:37 AM, said:

They had CPLs, and then did sim training at other locations. Do you know what you know what you are claiming? How many sim hours do you have? How many instructional hours do you have? I would say zero for each, because the questions you ask indicate an unfamiliarity with aviation.




Are you an expert in CD? I doubt it. These people, however, are:

http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC%...209-8-06%20.pdf


Well the person who mentioned the flight school issue was going to flight school. The government stated clearly they learned how to fly from small flight schools so it remains doubtful those small flight schools teach others to fly Boeing 757s and 767s or even have the flight simulators to do so even if they wanted to.

As far as experts in CDs those on Zeitgeist were also credentialed were they not? So when you have two sets of 'experts' one who claims it was a CD and others who back up the governments explanation that it was not...who has a bigger reason to lie? I will believe the first set and consider the latter just government payed spokesmen.

Edited by Clovis, 20 June 2008 - 08:32 PM.





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