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Obama LIED


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#16    Homer

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 03:49 PM

sear on Jun 23 2008, 10:28 AM, said:

Obama flip-flops:

- negotiating with terrorist States
- an undivided Jerusalem
- NAFTA
- public presidential campaign financing

Most of Obama’s flip-flops are foreign policy related, and he has essentially no foreign policy experience, so it is to be expected that his views will change as he becomes more and more involved with his foreign policy team. I will give him a pass for his learning curve.

What bothers me the most is his recent campaign financing flip-flop. This has nothing to do with experience, and although it probably has no effect on how well he can be Commander in Chief, it does say something about his character. No longer can he be considered as this non-political crusader or revolutionary set to change the way Washington works, when he himself has just demonstrated that he is ‘politics as usual’ just like the rest of them.


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#17    Homer

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 03:53 PM

AROCES on Jun 23 2008, 11:47 AM, said:

If Obama becomes President what are the chances we will hear him say, As much as I want to get out of Iraq right away I can't just pull our troops out that soon because of the the things I know now and didn't know then.

That's a good point(sort of...), except that Obama doesn't plan on getting troops out right away. Like Billary before him, he plans on talking with Joint Chiefs/Sec. of Defense/Security Advisors to come up with a plan to end the war.

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#18    AROCES

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 03:53 PM

Homer on Jun 23 2008, 04:49 PM, said:

Most of Obama’s flip-flops are foreign policy related, and he has essentially no foreign policy experience, so it is to be expected that his views will change as he becomes more and more involved with his foreign policy team. I will give him a pass for his learning curve.

What bothers me the most is his recent campaign financing flip-flop. This has nothing to do with experience, and although it probably has no effect on how well he can be Commander in Chief, it does say something about his character. No longer can he be considered as this non-political crusader or revolutionary set to change the way Washington works, when he himself has just demonstrated that he is ‘politics as usual’ just like the rest of them.

Political parties are like a fraternity somehow, either you play along or you be an Island.

Edited by AROCES, 23 June 2008 - 03:57 PM.


#19    Dr. D

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 03:53 PM

bathory on Jun 23 2008, 03:05 PM, said:

because only people who are incapable of reading any of the pre-war transcripts of Bush's speeches and documents regarding White House Policy would argue that Bush's reasons changed, ignoring the fact that all the reasons were put forward from the very beginning....

I don't normally have a problem with a politician who's stance evolves, though its kind of sketchy when it happens during election season tongue.gif


I remember that Bush's evolving included a promise to bring OBL to justice and then he "evolved" into saying that he just "doesn't think much about Bin Laden anymore."

I needn't go into his hours of rhetoric about the absolute existence of WMDs and how that situation "evolved."

And, of course, we have seen him evolve into his refusals to give evidence to his actions and decisions by using executive privilege to hide documents from members of Congress.

Yes, Bush has done a lot of "evolving."


#20    SJB

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 04:13 PM

They all lie...That's what Politicians do.  They say what you want to hear!


#21    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 04:24 PM

AROCES on Jun 23 2008, 04:47 PM, said:

If Obama becomes President what are the chances we will hear him say, As much as I want to get out of Iraq right away I can't just pull our troops out that soon because of the the things I know now and didn't know then.

Would you approve if he did do that, or would you say he was backtracking on what he'd said previously, and was therefore a hypocrite?  It seems that as far as some are concerned, he's unlikely to be able to win anyway: if he does adapt his policies according to information he receives, or things he learns after talking with the experts, he's accused of flip-flopping; if he doesn't, he's giving in to terrorists, and so on.

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#22    questionmark

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 04:47 PM

747400 on Jun 23 2008, 07:24 PM, said:

Would you approve if he did do that, or would you say he was backtracking on what he'd said previously, and was therefore a hypocrite?  It seems that as far as some are concerned, he's unlikely to be able to win anyway: if he does adapt his policies according to information he receives, or things he learns after talking with the experts, he's accused of flip-flopping; if he doesn't, he's giving in to terrorists, and so on.



... attitude that will continue after he is elected, and at the same time those who criticize Dubya are called unpatriotic...

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#23    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 05:06 PM

AROCES on Jun 23 2008, 03:47 PM, said:

If Obama becomes President what are the chances we will hear him say, As much as I want to get out of Iraq right away I can't just pull our troops out that soon because of the the things I know now and didn't know then.


Yea you're right. Bush has got us into one hell of a pickle that is gonna be very difficult to get out of.


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#24    AROCES

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 05:55 PM

747400 on Jun 23 2008, 05:24 PM, said:

Would you approve if he did do that, or would you say he was backtracking on what he'd said previously, and was therefore a hypocrite?  It seems that as far as some are concerned, he's unlikely to be able to win anyway: if he does adapt his policies according to information he receives, or things he learns after talking with the experts, he's accused of flip-flopping; if he doesn't, he's giving in to terrorists, and so on.

Yes, I'll be for that, would I say he was back tracking? Nope, for I am quite certain that is what will happen, he is saying things now to pamper the extremem left. Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat did it on the last election and no difference this time.
The extreme left still thinks to pull out of Iraq is the smart move, but those who have to make decisions that will impact not only the country but the world will not do just to keep a promise.

Edited by AROCES, 23 June 2008 - 05:56 PM.


#25    AROCES

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 05:59 PM

Homer on Jun 23 2008, 04:53 PM, said:

That's a good point(sort of...), except that Obama doesn't plan on getting troops out right away. Like Billary before him, he plans on talking with Joint Chiefs/Sec. of Defense/Security Advisors to come up with a plan to end the war.

YUP, same thing that Bush has been doing since day one.
Any President can end it really, just a matter of when and how, right?


#26    Finsup22

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 06:06 PM

Im shocked, a politician lied to us.  I say we grab our pitchforks and torches and hit D.C. angry mob style.


#27    Homer

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 08:10 PM

AROCES on Jun 23 2008, 01:59 PM, said:

YUP, same thing that Bush has been doing since day one.

Bush still wants to ‘win’ the war and promote ‘democracy’. McCain also stated he wants to win. Obama said he wants to end it, but to meet with his staff and the other previously mentioned ‘experts’ to determine how.

AROCES on Jun 23 2008, 01:59 PM, said:

Any President can end it really, just a matter of when and how, right?

I believe so, but Bush/McCain are determined to end it with a win. Since there’s no guaranteed win and no clear idea of what a win is, there’s no guarantee that it will end. Although Obama will not pull out immediately, he is determined to end the war regardless, so there is a large difference of philosophy between the two.

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#28    questionmark

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 08:33 PM

Homer on Jun 23 2008, 11:10 PM, said:

Since there’s no guaranteed win and no clear idea of what a win is, there’s no guarantee that it will end.



sure they have.... when all oil is controlled by Halliburton they won... very simple...

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#29    AROCES

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Posted 23 June 2008 - 11:35 PM

Homer on Jun 23 2008, 09:10 PM, said:

Bush still wants to ‘win’ the war and promote ‘democracy’. McCain also stated he wants to win. Obama said he wants to end it, but to meet with his staff and the other previously mentioned ‘experts’ to determine how.

Yes, Bush believes the remedy for the Middle East is not appeasement, talk or ceasefire but instead promoting democracy. The Iraqis are open and willing to make it work, give them a chance.
If Obama wants to end it and not promote democracy or leave it stable then what is there to talk about other than how to pull out that will be safe for the troops, That should be not such a task, right?


Quote

I believe so, but Bush/McCain are determined to end it with a win. Since there’s no guaranteed win and no clear idea of what a win is, there’s no guarantee that it will end. Although Obama will not pull out immediately, he is determined to end the war regardless, so there is a large difference of philosophy between the two.

Why not pull out immediately then when he is determined to end the war regardless???



#30    Atheist God

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:00 AM

Quote

Yes, Bush believes the remedy for the Middle East is not appeasement, talk or ceasefire but instead promoting democracy. The Iraqis are open and willing to make it work, give them a chance.


6 years is more then enough time for a people to re-establish a government if they are committed to it.

There is a difference between promoting democracy and bombing a nation into dust and rebuilding it as you see fit.

Quote

If Obama wants to end it and not promote democracy or leave it stable then what is there to talk about other than how to pull out that will be safe for the troops, That should be not such a task, right?


Obama is about image, the image of course being the US image on the world stage. The Iraq war has done nothing but tarnish the image of the US the world over, ending it would gain the praise of the international community.

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The Iraq war was never about the Iraqi people it was about making money.

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