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Obama LIED


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#31    AROCES

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:14 AM

Atheist God on Jun 24 2008, 12:00 AM, said:

6 years is more then enough time for a people to re-establish a government if they are committed to it.

There is a difference between promoting democracy and bombing a nation into dust and rebuilding it as you see fit.

They do have a functionin govt, the stability now is what's on the works for there are those who are determined to bring back Iraq to the stone age rule. And that is something Obama is saying does not matter and he will pull out, and that is something he would say he learned as the President so he can't pull out yet.  yes.gif

The Iraqis accepted the sacrifice it took to oust Saddam. You seem to be more piss than them????


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Obama is about image, the image of course being the US image on the world stage. The Iraq war has done nothing but tarnish the image of the US the world over, ending it would gain the praise of the international community.

You mean those Liberals of the world who always thinks when they open their mouth they are representing the entire world???
That community?
==

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The Iraq war was never about the Iraqi people it was about making money.

I'm sure they are hearing that, and so far they are not echoing you.

Edited by AROCES, 24 June 2008 - 12:25 AM.


#32    iSeeDeadPpl!

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:17 AM

how did he lie? looks like someones making a whole lot of noise about nothing, to try to compensate for the reputation the Republicans now have

Edited by Open your mind, 24 June 2008 - 12:19 AM.


#33    Atheist God

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 12:50 AM

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They do have a functionin govt, the stability now is what's on the works for there are those who are determined to bring back Iraq to the stone age rule.


They have a government alright but it hardly functions at all. Iraq is and was at the time not ready for revolution.

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And that is something Obama is saying does not matter and he will pull out, and that is something he would say he learned as the President so he can't pull out yet.


Nothing in Iraq will change if the US pulls out the nation is already in a state of anarchy. I say pull out now and the sooner the better it's bankrupting the US.

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The Iraqis accepted the sacrifice it took to oust Saddam. You seem to be more piss than them????


The US took out Saddam and installed a puppet government.

As for being pissed not really I don't care is they live or die it makes no difference to me. I am simply interested in the facts which is something you seem to not have.

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You mean those Liberals of the world who always thinks when they open their mouth they are representing the entire world???
That community?


No I mean everyone else not living within the fascist US state.

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I'm sure they are hearing that, and so far they are not echoing you.


There are a lot of Iraqi's that live by my house who still have family there and every one of them opposes the Iraq war and say it has done nothing but bring them pain and sorrow.

Every poll and study conducted in Iraq has shown an overwhelming majority of Iraqis oppose the US led invasion and occupation. So yeah the Iraqis do echo what I say, I have posted these polls and studies here numerous times. So now it's your turn either post a source for your claim or I will report you for trolling and needlessly starting pointless arguments just to get people riled up.

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#34    Homer

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 01:12 AM

AROCES on Jun 23 2008, 07:35 PM, said:

Why not pull out immediately then when he is determined to end the war regardless???

You're taking my 'regardless' out of context in your question. By regardless I mean regardless of whether we are labeled as winners or losers in the war, and not regardless of consequences. We can't pull out completely and immediately(Obama knows this) because of the consequences. But steps can be made to end the war regardless if we are seen as winners or losers.

This thread is about Obama and his lies/flip-flop, and we should steer it back in that direction

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#35    AROCES

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 01:20 AM

Atheist God on Jun 24 2008, 12:50 AM, said:

They have a government alright but it hardly functions at all. Iraq is and was at the time not ready for revolution.

Did you see that moment the Iraqis bravely lined up to vote and were so proud showing their blue thumb that they have voted for their own government DEFYING  the terrorist threat?
That was a revolution happening, I guess you missed that wonderful moment.

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Nothing in Iraq will change if the US pulls out the nation is already in a state of anarchy. I say pull out now and the sooner the better it's bankrupting the US.

You are speaking then on behalf of those who oppose a new Iraq. Nothing can change and nothing must change, or else we keep bombing the civilians.
  

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The US took out Saddam and installed a puppet government.

Last I heard the US govt is negotiating with the Iraqi govt. It's a none hostile and more friendly gov't, not really a puppet.

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As for being pissed not really I don't care is they live or die it makes no difference to me. I am simply interested in the facts which is something you seem to not have.

What facts??? You are going to throw in some polls, right?


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No I mean everyone else not living within the fascist US state.

Funny how so many wants to migrate to a Fascist state wink2.gif



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There are a lot of Iraqi's that live by my house who still have family there and every one of them opposes the Iraq war and say it has done nothing but bring them pain and sorrow.
Every poll and study conducted in Iraq has shown an overwhelming majority of Iraqis oppose the US led invasion and occupation. So yeah the Iraqis do echo what I say, I have posted these polls and studies here numerous times. So now it's your turn either post a source for your claim or I will report you for trolling and needlessly starting pointless arguments just to get people riled up.



Polls and studies echoes you, that makes it a FACT?
Many who said Kerry will win also got echoed by Polls and studies. rolleyes.gif

What can I post? I mean there are no reports that says the Iraqi govt is NOT asking us to leave now, they just not asking us to leave yet or any report that says there are no hundreds of thousand of Iraqis on the march demanding we leave, you don't report those things, right?
Maybe you can help and find me one in a lefty blog somewhere.

Edited by AROCES, 24 June 2008 - 01:52 AM.


#36    ninjadude

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 02:06 AM

Homer on Jun 23 2008, 10:49 AM, said:

and he has essentially no foreign policy experience,


This is simply untrue. Please read up on Obama before spewing typical propaganda.


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#37    Atheist God

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 03:47 AM

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Did you see that moment the Iraqis bravely lined up to vote and were so proud showing their blue thumb that they have voted for their own government DEFYING the terrorist threat?
That was a revolution happening, I guess you missed that wonderful moment.


So you base your opinions on a few video clips shown on TV?

I also highly suggest you look up what a revolution is because it is most certainly not a foreign power coming in and rebuilding a nation in it's image.

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You are speaking then on behalf of those who oppose a new Iraq. Nothing can change and nothing must change, or else we keep bombing the civilians.


Actually I am all for a 'new' Iraq however this being said I am also a realist and realize that Iraq due to ethnic and religious differences will never be like the USA. Iraq is a battle that can simply not be won by outsiders.

I am speaking on no ones behalf but my own.

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Last I heard the US govt is negotiating with the Iraqi govt. It's a none hostile and more friendly gov't, not really a puppet.


Negotiating what exactly?

The government may not appear to be volatile but all the wrong people are in power and as soon as you turn your backs Iraq will become a part of Iran since most of the elected officials share the same views as the Iranian Ayatollahs.

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What facts??? You are going to throw in some polls, right?


It doesn't matter what I post I have posted polls, opinion, studies and reports. No matter what I post you will say it's BS as always because you have your shine box out for John McCain and the current administration.

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Funny how so many wants to migrate to a Fascist state


Funny how those who have been born and raised in a fascist state move up north to Canada.


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Polls and studies echoes you, that makes it a FACT?
Many who said Kerry will win also got echoed by Polls and studies.


He should have won... Another debate all together

As I have said above I have posted numerous items to support what I say, while you post nothing except an uninformed and utterly useless opinion.

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What can I post? I mean there are no reports that says the Iraqi govt is NOT asking us to leave now, they just not asking us to leave yet or any report that says there are no hundreds of thousand of Iraqis on the march demanding we leave, you don't report those things, right?
Maybe you can help and find me one in a lefty blog somewhere.


Post links to anything that supports what you say otherwise you make yourself look like a fool.

If all the reports say the opposite of what you think then your probably wrong simple as that. As for blogs I have never used a blog as a source here.

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#38    AROCES

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 04:11 AM

Atheist God on Jun 24 2008, 04:47 AM, said:

So you base your opinions on a few video clips shown on TV?

Well, I really did not expect a video of everyone who voted that day.

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I also highly suggest you look up what a revolution is because it is most certainly not a foreign power coming in and rebuilding a nation in it's image.

Sometimes suppressed people needs help that they are scared to ask for.
AGAIN, the Iraqis are not angry, only the terrorist and some like yourself.



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Actually I am all for a 'new' Iraq however this being said I am also a realist and realize that Iraq due to ethnic and religious differences will never be like the USA. Iraq is a battle that can simply not be won by outsiders.

An Iraq that is not hositle to the region and it's neighbor is the objective, not a USA like country.
Once democracy has been tasted by a country, it usually stays in some form or another.


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The government may not appear to be volatile but all the wrong people are in power and as soon as you turn your backs Iraq will become a part of Iran since most of the elected officials share the same views as the Iranian Ayatollahs.

Let's see, we are establishing a good relation with Iraq and that relation could bring at least a diplomatic relation with Iran.


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Funny how those who have been born and raised in a fascist state move up north to Canada.

Yes, I heard about all the government entitlements there. thumbsup.gif





#39    Borat

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 04:46 AM

I hope McCain wins your election . The ties are loosening with the US and the rest of the world after the bush years , some in europe believe that a win for Obama would put a halt to that . Perhaps it will . But a McCain win.. that will put you back to more of the same, same old bush policies , same old excuses for war . Would europe put up with another installment of that ? On the surface for awhile maybe , but they are tired of your unilateral self serving corrupt maverick ways. Perhaps it is a time to break free , rather a mcCain where you know he is bound to continue in the crappy ways of US foreign policy than a pseudo might or might not char like obama . Least we can get the mechanisms in place sooner to make other ties with nations that are beneficial to our economic well being.. like russia, rather than some old boys network that ties us to some rogue pariah state like the US that feed us credit crunches and debt . So, i am all for your right wing politicians , knock yourself out.. get more of  those weird crazy christians in the white house again too, it all helps .


#40    Atheist God

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 05:25 AM

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Well, I really did not expect a video of everyone who voted that day.


Instead of relying on video I rely on data. Independent sources outside of major news outlets reporting from Iraq is the best way to go since they show it how it is w/o trying to push political ideology on those paying attention.

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Sometimes suppressed people needs help that they are scared to ask for.
AGAIN, the Iraqis are not angry, only the terrorist and some like yourself.


Iraqis yes for the most part did not want Saddam in power. However if they really felt the way you say they did then they would have overthrown him in a violent coup as is usually the case.

Every person from Iraq I have talked to is super pissed at the US for invading. Sorry their opinions hold more water then yours since it directly effects them and not you.

Also one more thing here the 'who are you to speak for the Iraqi's argument' which you often use is now null and void and has been for a while since in the above quote you did exactly what you gave everyone else heat for.

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An Iraq that is not hositle to the region and it's neighbor is the objective, not a USA like country.
Once democracy has been tasted by a country, it usually stays in some form or another.


Iraq wasn't hostile for over a decade, if it's neighbors have problems they have armies and know how to use them for example Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey among others.

Democracy doesn't always hold in nations for example Russia which while it appears to be democratic really isn't, it started that way and guys like Putin are well on their way to re-establishing the USSR.

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Let's see, we are establishing a good relation with Iraq and that relation could bring at least a diplomatic relation with Iran.


Iran is more then willing on it's own to establish diplomatic relations, the only reason why it hasn't happened is due to bad foreign policy on the part of the US.

The people of Iraq will hate you for generations to come, I have not met one person from Iraq who has anything good to say about the current situation.

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Yes, I heard about all the government entitlements there. thumbsup.gif


That's right our government gives immigrants money when they come here so they can establish themselves as productive citizens. The government gives people money when they have kids, go to school, start a business etc....

After experiencing both Canada and the US I would have to say that not only do we have everything you do but better and our nation is as strong as ever economically despite global slowdown and high fuel prices.

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#41    Guardsman Bass

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 06:13 AM

Obama's supposedly a major pragmatist, so I wouldn't worry about him suddenly pulling out troops once he's in office; most likely, his military advisors will set him straight. Any pro-Iraq war people here really ought to be more worried about what a Democratic congress might do if Obama is President; most likely, they'll try to send bill after bill calling for a time-table to be set in exchange for further funding. That's not necessarily an unreasonable thing, as long as said time-table isn't public, but it could quickly become an embarrassment for Obama.

"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours." -Sir Charles Napier

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#42    InHuman

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 06:16 AM

Sir, will you eat that cake?

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Yes, I will, no hesitation.


--==1 Week Later==--

Sir, will you still eat that cake?

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Yes, but I might think about it first, and gotta check the sugar and calories on the cake



LIES!

Edited by InHuman, 24 June 2008 - 06:17 AM.

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#43    Borat

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 06:37 AM

I hope they let him spend and spend . US can ill afford these military bases and deployments across the world , it is only a matter of time before their economy implodes with that and the other financial burdens it has. It is a good thing ultimately . Few could deny that the US has become a malevolent force for world instability and conflict , and if it brings on a new tectonic shift in global wealth , then that would be suitable to asia africa europe & s america , nobody wants to give the US a free ride anymore .


#44    Borat

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 07:17 AM

But with the US having 8 years of an extreme pseudo-nazi right wing government coupled with wacko religious slapheads influencing us foreign policy , it is kind of at a precipice in it's foreign relations . I personally do not trust the americans to get out of their apathy/ ignorance, call it what you will to do anything other than inflict some underhanded war bent scheming profit driven corporate back _handing junta on the rest of the world for at least several generations yet to come if ever , so im all for them going over the edge right now .


#45    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 10:16 AM

Borat on Jun 24 2008, 08:17 AM, said:

But with the US having 8 years of an extreme pseudo-nazi right wing government .... .

Ah, is that Godwin's Law I see before me?

Going back a bit, didn't you say

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Least we can get the mechanisms in place sooner to make other ties with nations that are beneficial to our economic well being.. like russia, rather than some old boys network that ties us to some rogue pariah state like the US that feed us credit crunches and debt .
?
Um... is Putin a paragon of democracy?

huh.gif

Edited by 747400, 24 June 2008 - 10:17 AM.

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.





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