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Obama LIED


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#46    Akadra

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 10:35 AM

Everyone lies at least once a day, in fact, most of the scientists believe we all lie 9 times a day. Now, a politician lies or gives a quick answer to a question wich he later regrets, and the whole world is rocked. ''OH TEH NOEZ! A politician lies! Let's go... blacken his reputation in the papers!'' Wait... Obama is black. Sorry.


#47    AROCES

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 03:36 PM

Atheist God on Jun 24 2008, 06:25 AM, said:

Instead of relying on video I rely on data. Independent sources outside of major news outlets reporting from Iraq is the best way to go since they show it how it is w/o trying to push political ideology on those paying attention.

Actually, those outside of major news outlets have little accountability of what they report. Why do you think it can only be flound on blogs and special interest organizations?


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Iraqis yes for the most part did not want Saddam in power. However if they really felt the way you say they did then they would have overthrown him in a violent coup as is usually the case.
Every person from Iraq I have talked to is super pissed at the US for invading. Sorry their opinions hold more water then yours since it directly effects them and not you.

Those who would have were found in mass graves, remember?

See, you have to tell those who you talk to that telling it to you won't help much. Did you at least advise them what to do???

[

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Iraq wasn't hostile for over a decade, if it's neighbors have problems they have armies and know how to use them for example Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey among others.

Then why didn't the UN withdraw the sancytions, embargoes, weapon inspectors, no fly zones and UN resolution????


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Democracy doesn't always hold in nations for example Russia which while it appears to be democratic really isn't, it started that way and guys like Putin are well on their way to re-establishing the USSR.

Like I said, once a country tasted democracy it stays there one way or another, does not have to be a copy of the Unites States.
There are voices in the USSR that is saying what you are saying about Putin, and Putin is denying the charges. See, how democracy works somehow?


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Iran is more then willing on it's own to establish diplomatic relations, the only reason why it hasn't happened is due to bad foreign policy on the part of the US.

Bad foreign policy is a matter of opinion.


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The people of Iraq will hate you for generations to come, I have not met one person from Iraq who has anything good to say about the current situation.

Sure, they hate us so much now that their govt have not ask us to leave.


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That's right our government gives immigrants money when they come here so they can establish themselves as productive citizens. The government gives people money when they have kids, go to school, start a business etc....

And where does the govt get the money to give away?

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After experiencing both Canada and the US I would have to say that not only do we have everything you do but better and our nation is as strong as ever economically despite global slowdown and high fuel prices.

Good for you folks. Maybe the United States be just like Canada and not worry about the rest of the world, just give money to everyone who needs it. Now, who do you think will dominate the world and take over once the United States be just like Canada? The USSR? China?  India? Iran?



#48    AROCES

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 04:03 PM

Borat on Jun 24 2008, 05:46 AM, said:

Least we can get the mechanisms in place sooner to make other ties with nations that are beneficial to our economic well being.. like russia,

You mean how Eastern Europe benefited and became very progressive with Russia before?



#49    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 04:11 PM

AROCES on Jun 24 2008, 05:03 PM, said:

You mean how Eastern Europe benefited and became very progressive with Russia before?

yes, the USSR. Improving the lives of everyone it touches.

unsure.gif



If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#50    Homer

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 04:17 PM

ninjadude on Jun 23 2008, 10:06 PM, said:

This is simply untrue. Please read up on Obama before spewing typical propaganda.

Like a lot of people, I have read up on Obama. He does lack foreign policy experience, and his recent flip-flops on foreign policy issues have confirmed that. As I previously stated, I will give him a pass on those flip-flops because he is an intelligent person going through a learning curve. If he enlists the right people on his team, I think he'll do a great job.

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#51    Stardrive

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 04:38 PM

747400 on Jun 24 2008, 12:11 PM, said:

yes, the USSR. Improving the lives of everyone it touches.

unsure.gif

Right 7's ! And they were always there to help out thier fellow man in times of need.  laugh.gif

Obama lied...  HA! what hyperbole. People will often change thier position on issues as new information comes to light. McCain is no different.


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#52    Incorrigible1

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 04:40 PM

Stardrive on Jun 24 2008, 11:38 AM, said:

Right 7's ! And they were always there to help out thier fellow man in times of need.  laugh.gif

Obama lied...  HA! what hyperbole. People will often change thier position on issues as new information comes to light. McCain is no different.

Yet McCain was criticized on this forum for "pandering to the right" when he endorsed increased domestic oil production in response to the changing situation. You're right, McCain is no different.

If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose its freedom; and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that too. -- W. Somerset Maugham
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#53    Atheist God

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 06:52 PM

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Actually, those outside of major news outlets have little accountability of what they report. Why do you think it can only be flound on blogs and special interest organizations?


What makes major news outlets have any more accountability then the non-major independent ones? Nothing the corporate media makes it's own rules and report what they please not what they should be.

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Those who would have were found in mass graves, remember?


Irrelevant.

Those mass graves were from before the first Gulf War.

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See, you have to tell those who you talk to that telling it to you won't help much. Did you at least advise them what to do???


I'm not an adviser just an observer.

Talking to people and gathering their views helps further paint the picture.

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Then why didn't the UN withdraw the sancytions, embargoes, weapon inspectors, no fly zones and UN resolution????


Just to play it safe.

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Like I said, once a country tasted democracy it stays there one way or another, does not have to be a copy of the Unites States.
There are voices in the USSR that is saying what you are saying about Putin, and Putin is denying the charges. See, how democracy works somehow?


The USSR doesn't exist...

Having rigged elections, slaughtering your people and threatening them to vote for your guy is not democratic. Putin is a former KGB agent, a professional actor, liar, thief.

Russia's government has returned yet again to it's totalitarian roots oppressing it's people and controlling it's media.

Fact here is your wrong whether you think so or not there is no debate here.

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Bad foreign policy is a matter of opinion.


Bad foreign policy can be seen by viewing economics, politics and global opinion.

Bad foreign policy towards the middle east resulted with both WTC attacks, Saddam Hussein, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc.

It is easy to see the end result of bad foreign policy when most of the world hates your country or have a negative view at the very least.

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Sure, they hate us so much now that their govt have not ask us to leave.


The Iraqi government now is useless..

However the Iraqi government on a few occasions has asked the US to leave... only of course shutting up when threatened , protests in the streets, polls, studies and reports all show that Iraqi's or at least an overwhelming majority do not want foreign occupiers.

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And where does the govt get the money to give away?


The government doesn't give it 'away' as you claim.

The money is viewed more or less as an investment, we invest in our immigrants so they can become productive and give back just like a business.

The money mainly comes from tax dollars, tax dollars which I don't mind paying at all.

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Good for you folks. Maybe the United States be just like Canada and not worry about the rest of the world, just give money to everyone who needs it. Now, who do you think will dominate the world and take over once the United States be just like Canada? The USSR? China? India? Iran?


First of all we just don't give money away, I highly suggest you do a little research kid.

No single nation will accomplish world domination. The next logical step is and has to be a global government to quell wars and economic inequality.





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#54    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 07:33 PM

QUOTE (AROCES)
Good for you folks. Maybe the United States be just like Canada and not worry about the rest of the world, just give money to everyone who needs it.


Did you see that story about how the Canadian forces in Afghanistan have just launched an offensive against the Taliban?  Or doesn't that count, in some way?  

... and how many countries in the world hate, or fear, Canada?  Compared with the number that hate, and fear, America? It does seem to me that sometimes, there seems to be a certain element of the US population that wants to be hated, and derides anyone else who doesn't take the shoot first and don't really worry about asking any questions approach, which is the most efficient way of generating yet further hate. I'm sure a psychologist would find it very interesting.

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#55    AROCES

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 08:27 PM

Atheist God on Jun 24 2008, 07:52 PM, said:

What makes major news outlets have any more accountability then the non-major independent ones? Nothing the corporate media makes it's own rules and report what they please not what they should be.

That is why one is major and the other is non major.

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Those mass graves were from before the first Gulf War.

So? That makes it less of a mass graves?


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The USSR doesn't exist...

Because... go on....


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Having rigged elections, slaughtering your people and threatening them to vote for your guy is not democratic. Putin is a former KGB agent, a professional actor, liar, thief.

We actually hear this things now from Russia? Just like whenever the Democrats loose an election here?
Democracy then is present in Russia! thumbsup.gif


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Bad foreign policy can be seen by viewing economics, politics and global opinion.

Bad foreign policy can be seen by economic and political results that take time to be seen.
Global opinion is all but crap, how the heck can you say it is global opinion? That is just a lefty talking point, simple brainwashing to make it seem like their voice is the world.


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Bad foreign policy towards the middle east resulted with both WTC attacks, Saddam Hussein, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc.

Then that woud have been Clinton's policy.
What have you suggested anyway? Just leave the Middle East alone and just hope for the best?

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It is easy to see the end result of bad foreign policy when most of the world hates your country or have a negative view at the very least.

Most of the worlds Liberals, communist, socialist, Islamo fascist and terrorist hates the United States. So?



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The Iraqi government now is useless..
However the Iraqi government on a few occasions has asked the US to leave... only of course shutting up when threatened , protests in the streets, polls, studies and reports all show that Iraqi's or at least an overwhelming majority do not want foreign occupiers.

Now that is an insult to the Iraqis who have sacrificed  alit to have a new Iraq. But they are more hopeful than you side critics really.

QUOTE
The money mainly comes from tax dollars, tax dollars which I don't mind paying at all.

would you pay 70% in Taxes to assure the immigrants will be productive?

QUOTE
No single nation will accomplish world domination. The next logical step is and has to be a global government to quell wars and economic inequality.

Wrong! there will always be someone who would dominate, it's just human nature. Now who would you prefer?

Your logical step of economic equality is UTOPIAN, a Marxist ideology that has instead pulled everyone down.
You folks just will never learn.


#56    Stardrive

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 09:06 PM

Incorrigible1 on Jun 24 2008, 12:40 PM, said:

Yet McCain was criticized on this forum for "pandering to the right" when he endorsed increased domestic oil production in response to the changing situation. You're right, McCain is no different.

That’s a good example as any. Before it’s all over, they will have both been run through the proverbial sausage grinder.

I haven’t committed to either as of yet. Both candidates have good and bad qualities; they’re only human after all.

I saw where he endorsed the lifting of “off limits” drilling. I missed that debate. I do find it amusing how people throw the word “pandering” around like they really know what it means in it’s intended context.

It seems I read somewhere that McCain is proposing a contest with a 300 Million dollar prize for anyone who develops some kind of advanced battery. Can’t remember where I saw it, have you heard anything about this?


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#57    questionmark

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 09:08 PM

Stardrive on Jun 25 2008, 12:06 AM, said:

That’s a good example as any. Before it’s all over, they will have both been run through the proverbial sausage grinder.

I haven’t committed to either as of yet. Both candidates have good and bad qualities; they’re only human after all.

I saw where he endorsed the lifting of “off limits” drilling. I missed that debate. I do find it amusing how people throw the word “pandering” around like they really know what it means in it’s intended context.

It seems I read somewhere that McCain is proposing a contest with a 300 Million dollar prize for anyone who develops some kind of advanced battery. Can’t remember where I saw it, have you heard anything about this?


we have a thread re McCain and the Greens on this forum...

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#58    Atheist God

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 10:12 PM

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That is why one is major and the other is non major.


Explain?

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So? That makes it less of a mass graves?


No but it's certainly not a debating point to justify this war.

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Because... go on....


Because it broke up.

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We actually hear this things now from Russia? Just like whenever the Democrats loose an election here?
Democracy then is present in Russia! thumbsup.gif


Actually this type of information has been coming from Russia for years. There is no democracy in Russia just a theocratic dictatorship.

Quote

Bad foreign policy can be seen by economic and political results that take time to be seen.
Global opinion is all but crap, how the heck can you say it is global opinion? That is just a lefty talking point, simple brainwashing to make it seem like their voice is the world.


From a guy who ridicules others for suggesting certain conspiracy theories could be you certainly buy into some.

Hypocrite.

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Then that woud have been Clinton's policy.
What have you suggested anyway? Just leave the Middle East alone and just hope for the best?


Yeah that is what I suggest, let them hash out their own problems. It would be chaos at first but would eventually calm down just like Europe did.

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Most of the worlds Liberals, communist, socialist, Islamo fascist and terrorist hates the United States. So?


How about most of the worlds human beings hate the US.

I find it funny how you view others with different views as less then human.

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Now that is an insult to the Iraqis who have sacrificed alit to have a new Iraq. But they are more hopeful than you side critics really.


Not the Iraqi's I've talked to.

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would you pay 70% in Taxes to assure the immigrants will be productive?


No because I don't have to.

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Wrong! there will always be someone who would dominate, it's just human nature. Now who would you prefer?


Certainly not the current rulers of the world that's for sure.

A global government cannot be ruled by one man alone and won't be.

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Your logical step of economic equality is UTOPIAN, a Marxist ideology that has instead pulled everyone down.
You folks just will never learn.


Where did I say Utopian? Where have I said I approve where the world is headed? I didn't

The idea of a Utopian society has been around longer then the ideas Marx put fourth.

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#59    Lt_Ripley

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 10:25 PM

kinda like the lies bush said ?

about they do go to FISA courts when not one time had they ?  you mean like that ?

or that he was against nation building in his 2000 campaign  but that's what we are doing in Iraq ?


bush knew he had no wmds before 2003. they knew in 2001. and stated as much. so bush lied .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1X-I-38lrU

bush lies here stating they get subpeonas for tapping when they never did, not one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfbRcedmqvY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6N64BXyVl4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xam7M6ahwvE

here bush lies about seeing the first plane hit twc - but no one had . it wasn't until the next day and only one camera caught it. a french video crew shooting about the NYPD.
This wasn't a mistake on bushs part because he makes this same statement twice on seperate occasions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm73wOuPL60


hey lets skip to mccrazy mccain and his lies !! or would you rather call them flip flops ?

McCain added that the “nature of the society in Iraq” and the “religious aspects” of the country make it inevitable that the United States “eventually withdraws.”

But if you suggest five years of failed policies is long enough, you’re a cut-and-run coward who embraces defeat, loves al Qaeda, and hates our troops.

I have a very hard time understanding how it is this guy earned a reputation for “consistency.” The only thing consistent about McCain’s policy towards Iraq is that it changes every few months.

Of course, that fits into a pattern with the senator. Long-time readers know what this means: it’s time to update the list of John McCain Biggest Flip-Flops.

* McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.

* McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.

* In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he now opposes the measure.

* McCain has been both open and closed to a redeploy-to-perimeter strategy in Iraq.

* McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”

* McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”

* McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.

* McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.

* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.

* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.

* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June, he abandoned his own legislation.

* McCain used to think that Grover Norquist was a crook and a corrupt shill for dictators. Then McCain got serious about running for president and began to reconcile with Norquist.

* McCain took a firm line in opposition to torture, and then caved to White House demands.

* McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.

* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.

* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

* McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.


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#60    AROCES

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Posted 24 June 2008 - 10:54 PM

Atheist God on Jun 24 2008, 10:12 PM, said:

Explain?

I don't think it would matter.

Quote

No but it's certainly not a debating point to justify this war.

Weapon of mass destruction
Mass grave yard
See how both have the word MASS? what do you think that concerns to?

Quote

Yeah that is what I suggest, let them hash out their own problems. It would be chaos at first but would eventually calm down just like Europe did.

Then we should have left Saddam take the entire Middle East, right?
And if he holds the entire world hostage with OIL we just ride bicycles and use horses, right?

Quote

How about most of the worlds human beings hate the US.

Well, then immigration here would  have slowed down. Unless you see those migrating here not human beings???  huh.gif








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