1
Israeli Barrier
Should they?
Started by Gazz , Feb 29 2004 04:35 PM
Started by Gazz , Feb 29 2004 04:35 PM
36 replies to this topic
#16
Talon
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Posted 07 March 2004 - 05:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| Imagine if the wall that separated East/West Germany was still up maybe Russia would still be comunist |
1. The wall was brought down after they became a Democracy 2. They weren't communist they were Bolshiveik, then Stalinist, then neo-Stalinist, why does everyone make that mistake
Anyway, Spartan, I finally agree with you
, the situation won't be helped with a wall, it could be helped by Isreal pulling out its tropps, aid in the building of a democratic Palistine and come to peace with it, hell for all we know if they did that then in 50 years time they two could be best of friends look at France and Germany for example, they had a 1000 year old grudge, found 3 massive wars against each other in the last 150 years, but as soon as Germany was forced to become a democracy they get on better than any other European nations.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato
#17
Spartan
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Posted 07 March 2004 - 05:05 PM
| QUOTE (Talon S. @ Mar 7 2004, 04:00 PM) |
| 1. The wall was brought down after they became a Democracy 2. They weren't communist they were Bolshiveik, then Stalinist, then neo-Stalinist, why does everyone make that mistake |
Sorry, just wanted to simplefy for others,
thanks though
yes you are right about your further comments
peace
Live to die, die to live.
#18
Erikl
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Posted 08 March 2004 - 11:42 AM
| QUOTE |
| the situation won't be helped with a wall, it could be helped by Israel pulling out its tropps, aid in the building of a democratic Palistine and come to peace with it |
Talon, we already tried that... remember the Oslo accords?
Almost all the Palestinians were under PLO jurisdiction, and still they used all the money we and the EU and the US gave them to arm themselves and prepair for the second Intifada that Arafat started in 2000.
If we pull our troops out now, in the middle of this armed round, it will only make the terrorist groups stronger - even now when Israel is just considering pulling all the Israelis out of Gaza strip, Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the Fatah (PLO's terrorists, under the leadership of Arafat) are using it to say "hey, look, our way got the Israelis out of Gaza - you should support us rather than supporting peacfull negotiations".
Israel gave money to the PA (PLO) to resettle the refugees out of the refugee camps, but it all went to terrorism and Arafat's wife's dresses, instead of helping the refugees.
There could not be a democratic Palestine under PLO's leadership. It's like expecting a democratic Iraq under Baathist regime. Their ideoligies are almost the same.
And one more thing regarding the fence - Israel built a fence aroud the Gaza strip back in the 90s. In this Intifada, there was not a single suicide bomber that exploded inside Israel which came out of Gaza - the fence stopped them.
Edited by Erikl, 08 March 2004 - 11:43 AM.
"We live in a world where when Christians kill Muslims, it's a crusade; When Jews kill Muslims, it's a massacre; When Muslims kill Muslims, it's the weather channel. Nobody cares"
#19
joc
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Posted 08 March 2004 - 01:20 PM
| QUOTE | ||
No one is calling you a moron... at least not in this thread , the word oxymoron means that the item in question is contradictary i.e. she's saying "democratic palistine" is contradictory as the Palistinian's couldn't, for whatever bigoted and racist reason she holds true, form one. |
That was meant to be another joke....ha, ha, ha. Of course I am aware of what an
oxymoron is.
But thanks for taking the time anyway. 
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold
#20
SayWhat???
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Posted 08 March 2004 - 06:44 PM
I don't think a wall should be up, but I do understand the Israeli's frustrations. I watched a show last week with TL Friedman and some suggested that the wall could in the end create a one state solution. It's complicated for sure. Some say their can never be peace, the Bible says so...but IMHO it would be true suicide for sure to just give up and not do anything about it. Time will tell I guess. Too bad they all can't get along and both sides respect the others right to exist. The moderates who feel this way need to raise their voices over the extremist factions from both sides.......maybe then something good can come from it. I hope so. It looks like an awful bloody way to live.
#21
Diebytheflyguy
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It seemed like a good idea at the time...
Posted 08 March 2004 - 08:55 PM
Bush should have no say in this. He should concentrate on his own war...
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Why dosent Palestine build the damn wall. And what will be the point; To keep suicide bombers out, but open up the air for missles? Building a wall won't solve anything... All they really have to do is duck tape the middle of the disputed area. Isreal stays on one side while Palestine stays on the other. There... problem solved.
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Why dosent Palestine build the damn wall. And what will be the point; To keep suicide bombers out, but open up the air for missles? Building a wall won't solve anything... All they really have to do is duck tape the middle of the disputed area. Isreal stays on one side while Palestine stays on the other. There... problem solved.
#22
KayEl
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Posted 08 March 2004 - 10:00 PM
| QUOTE |
| the word oxymoron means that the item in question is contradictary i.e. she's saying "democratic palistine" is contradictory as the Palistinian's couldn't, for whatever bigoted and racist reason she holds true, form one. |
Just telling truth. Once again, PC strikes. You can't criticize "non-white" people because they are all being "oppressed" and thus we are force to accept their own brand of intolerance and racism.
And BTW, I am a HE!
Although being a woman shouldn't be too bad if you can handle the periods!
#23
Talon
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Posted 08 March 2004 - 11:22 PM
Okay first I want to add a disclaimer for the modes: The first poart of my post is not an attempt to take the topic off post (since I am now aware that its a banning offense and don't wish a repeat of resent) it is simply an attempt to clear up some matters in past Posts. The second part of my post will deal with topic at hand and so will take this post back into subject context.
Part 1: Clearing up
Part 1: Clearing up
| QUOTE |
| Just telling truth. Once again, PC strikes. You can't criticize "non-white" people because they are all being "oppressed" and thus we are force to accept their own brand of intolerance and racism. And BTW, I am a HE! Although being a woman shouldn't be too bad if you can handle the periods! |
First off it is obvious you don't know me, as if you did you would know I am a devoute anti-PC, I refer to my actions in the Woman cuts open baby threat as an example of this.
As for crtiticising "non-white" racists, this is fine and I do it all the time. As for branding an entire race under one brush, I do not believe that is fair.| QUOTE |
| I don't think a wall should be up, but I do understand the Israeli's frustrations. I watched a show last week with TL Friedman and some suggested that the wall could in the end create a one state solution. It's complicated for sure. Some say their can never be peace, the Bible says so...but IMHO it would be true suicide for sure to just give up and not do anything about it. Time will tell I guess. Too bad they all can't get along and both sides respect the others right to exist. The moderates who feel this way need to raise their voices over the extremist factions from both sides.......maybe then something good can come from it. I hope so. It looks like an awful bloody way to live. |
But as you yourself have argued Palastine has never been an established country and therefore has never had an attempt at government. As for the modern regime, that is in no way mean that all Palistine's have this view and a forced change in leaders to a democratic government may work.
Part 2: Back on Topic
Since nobody's really gonna change anyone's beleif, and since both sides of the arguement have been listed and since we'd best not turn this into a several long flamefest, and since we can't change the actions of either country lets just say;
"Build the wall and let history be the judge."
And leave it at that
Edited by Talon S., 08 March 2004 - 11:24 PM.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato
#24
joc
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Posted 09 March 2004 - 01:02 AM
| QUOTE |
| Too bad they all can't get along and both sides respect the others right to exist. The moderates who feel this way need to raise their voices over the extremist factions from both sides.......maybe then something good can come from it. |
The whole idea of being a moderate is to stay away from either extreme. If a moderate were to raise their voice to be heard against the fray, then they would cease to be moderate and thereby be forced to take a stand against something, which of course no moderate is willing to do. That is why they are moderates!
It seems awfully risky behavior to me to attempt to keep your enemies out with a wall. 'Tis far better to make peace with them. But that is not going to happen.
They will build the wall. No one can stop them. Will it solve anything? That is the question. At some point it would not surprise me if the dome of the rock is destroyed and the Israelies begin rebuilding their 'temple'. But that is another thread and I think Talon is right. There really isn't much more to be said in this
thread without the risk of having it closed and 'cards' dealt out.
once i believed that starlight could guide me home
now i know that light is old and stars are cold
#25
KayEl
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Posted 09 March 2004 - 02:08 AM
| QUOTE |
| As for branding an entire race under one brush, I do not believe that is fair. |
Well, tell it to the Palestinians.
#26
Dowdy
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"The one thing we have learnt from history is that we learn nothing from history." Albert Einstein
Posted 10 March 2004 - 06:41 AM
that wall is useless. Palestinians will get some sucide bombers and blow it up...
THE PAOMNNEHAL PWEOR OF THE HMUAN MNID Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg. Can you? ;)
#27
Mekorig
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Posted 10 March 2004 - 11:05 AM
One posible solution: Disolve the palestinian state and Israel, put the zone under UN administration...
I´m an evil pinko UN slave liberal commie
I don't think any of these "The Vague Society of Nebulous Meanies are going to take over the world and light up a planet" theories worry too much about practical considerations like that. It's all about rousing ill-informed, paranoiac fear, not making sense.
--Jaylemurph
I don't think any of these "The Vague Society of Nebulous Meanies are going to take over the world and light up a planet" theories worry too much about practical considerations like that. It's all about rousing ill-informed, paranoiac fear, not making sense.
--Jaylemurph
#28
wunarmdscissor
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come on the hoops
Posted 10 March 2004 - 02:25 PM
| QUOTE |
| One posible solution: Disolve the palestinian state and Israel, put the zone under UN administration... |
I see where your coming from and in an ideal world it would perhaps be a solution.
It wouldnt work the two seperate nations of palestine an israel would just turn on the UN. Mind you it might unite them for something?.......
It would just be replacing one with the other.
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#29
Seraphina
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Posted 10 March 2004 - 02:35 PM
Didn't all this trouble start because of outside powers meddling in the first place?
Apparantly, over on Exchristian.Net, they say that I'm "probably the smartest person" on UM....that is so cool...
#30
wunarmdscissor
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come on the hoops
Posted 10 March 2004 - 02:40 PM
| QUOTE |
| Didn't all this trouble start because of outside powers meddling in the first place? |
Its goes so far back into history its hard to see where it all started .
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