Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

If evolution is true, why are we the only


  • Please log in to reply
283 replies to this topic

#271    wunarmdscissor

wunarmdscissor

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,761 posts
  • Joined:07 Nov 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sunny Glasgow

  • come on the hoops

Posted 17 March 2004 - 09:56 AM

'OK after 18 pages you still cant agree so give it up , I mean it gets borin after a while lol. Move on with your lives. w00t.gif  

Stand up for the Champions
'MON the tic an tiocfaidh ar-la


saorsa na h-alba

#272    Nethius

Nethius

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 669 posts
  • Joined:24 Jun 2003
  • Location:Nova Scotia

Posted 17 March 2004 - 12:37 PM

i dont think it's so much who is smarter... ever think that intelligence may be different between species?  meaning maybe its on a different scale.
or a differnt level of conscienceness

seriously, what could we accomplish if we had no arms, no legs, and lived under water?




#273    PsychicPenguin

PsychicPenguin

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,428 posts
  • Joined:25 Nov 2003
  • Location:Atlantis

Posted 17 March 2004 - 02:46 PM

strichar, sorry if you find my post offensive. I didn't want to attack you, or saying that this topic is bad... you shouldn't take my post too seriously, because I wasn't very serious either. It was just a sarcasm on how stupid humans are. The fact is.. you didn't get it, because I'm not smart enough to get my message accross, and you are not smart enough it interpret it correctly.

And Sera.. off course I was spaming this thread.. in fact it is what a lot of ppl are doing in this forum. Why? Because we are not intelligent wink2.gif

But to justify myself... (a typical action of an unintelligent being)

QUOTE
The question on this thread is not proving the existence of intelligence on earth Mr. PsychicPenguin. The point of this thread is to see if others here beleive that there are or have been other animals of equal or higher intelligence than Homo Sapiens Sapiens.


I think we've established that intelligence is a relative term. So if the point of this thread is too see if there have been any animals of equal or higher intelligence than us, then theoriticaly it can be done. But looking at the title of this thread "Why we are the only intelligent species?" then my answer is "it is a wrong question, there is no intelligent species." And my answer is perfectly valid (from an unintelligent being point of view) because I can set my treshold of intelligence using my own definition. So as somebody (i think it's joc) has pointed out before we have to define "what intelligence is" before going any further.

QUOTE
The only way you could possibly say that there is no such thing as an intelligent race on earth is if the word intelligent did not exist.


So now you defined intelligence as "capable of inventing words". So maybe we can say that any species with some form of comunication as intelligent. Therefore we have a whole lot of intelligence species.

Or if you define intelligence as "capable of inventing the concept of intelligence" then my "spam" is valid, because we humans haven't really define what intelligence is.

Again, going back to the title "If evolution is true, why are we the only intelligent species" ... then

QUOTE
seriously, what could we accomplish if we had no arms, no legs, and lived under water?


is invalid argument. Because the forces of evolution will eventualy gives dolphins arms and legs.... make me think (can i think?) about this thread

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=10828


#274    strichar

strichar

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 417 posts
  • Joined:27 Feb 2004
  • Location:Cincinatti

  • I am the only god of my world, and only god of my world. -Jesiah Tinalinde

Posted 18 March 2004 - 04:12 AM

QUOTE
So now you defined intelligence as "capable of inventing words". So maybe we can say that any species with some form of comunication as intelligent. Therefore we have a whole lot of intelligence species.

Or if you define intelligence as "capable of inventing the concept of intelligence" then my "spam" is valid, because we humans haven't really define what intelligence is.


The point I was trying to get across is that the word intelligent is a word that was made to describe our own mental abilities. Therefore as it was made to describe ourselves you can't say that we are not intelligent, that would be saying that we are inferioir to ourselves, and that sir is an oxy-moron. thumbsup.gif

I'm sorry if I took your post too seriously, I've been a little edgy lately.

QUOTE
Again, going back to the title "If evolution is true, why are we the only intelligent species" ... then



QUOTE
seriously, what could we accomplish if we had no arms, no legs, and lived under water?


is invalid argument. Because the forces of evolution will eventualy gives dolphins arms and legs.... make me think (can i think?) about this thread


I don't think that a species will evolve like that if does not need to. In fact, arms and legs would be a seriously problematic mutation for a dolphin, being that they are underwater creatures. A dolphin that was born with arms and legs would die very quickly.



Avatar Animation done by thBarman. Thanks Barman.

Posted Image
"A man's dreams are an index to his greatness."

-- Cardinal Durand XVIII

The point is to discover that core of uniqueness that is in each of us, that is beyond all social roles and to make that the point from which we act, live, and think in the world.

#275    PsychicPenguin

PsychicPenguin

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,428 posts
  • Joined:25 Nov 2003
  • Location:Atlantis

Posted 18 March 2004 - 07:58 AM

QUOTE
The point I was trying to get across is that the word intelligent is a word that was made to describe our own mental abilities. Therefore as it was made to describe ourselves you can't say that we are not intelligent, that would be saying that we are inferioir to ourselves, and that sir is an oxy-moron.


If intelligence is the word made to describe ourselves, then "why we are the only intelligent species" can be answered right away, because other species is different then us, therefore the word that was made to describe us cannot be used to describe them, it is the same as asking "why we are the only Homo sapiens species?"

So it is either:
1. Your definition of intelligence is invalid.
2. We humans has no real concept of what intelligence is (we're stupid).
3. This topic has a very easy answer (that I just posted above) but it took us several pages to figure it out (again, because we're stupid)
4. I completely misunderstood you (because you're not smart enough to say it clearly and I'm not smart enough to understand you.. again... we're stupid.

And off course, by saying something like oxy-moron, you just gave me a supporting evidence wink2.gif


#276    strichar

strichar

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 417 posts
  • Joined:27 Feb 2004
  • Location:Cincinatti

  • I am the only god of my world, and only god of my world. -Jesiah Tinalinde

Posted 18 March 2004 - 10:30 AM

Well all i'm going to sayis that i'm sure evryone realises the intent behind this thread, and it is not to define intelligence.  grin2.gif The name of this topic has never been my question, but a question that people would ask me all the time.

I guess to put all of this "define intelligence" business behind us, I am going to say that the ability for abstract thought and theory is how we are going to define intelligence.

Personally , I do think that Dolphins are very near if not of the same intelligence as Homo Sapiens Sapiens. As well as Neanderthals.  thumbsup.gif

Something else I have always thought of, "If you are smart enough to realise you are stupid, then you must not be as stupid as you think you are." tongue.gif  

Edited by strichar, 18 March 2004 - 01:30 PM.

Avatar Animation done by thBarman. Thanks Barman.

Posted Image
"A man's dreams are an index to his greatness."

-- Cardinal Durand XVIII

The point is to discover that core of uniqueness that is in each of us, that is beyond all social roles and to make that the point from which we act, live, and think in the world.

#277    PsychicPenguin

PsychicPenguin

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,428 posts
  • Joined:25 Nov 2003
  • Location:Atlantis

Posted 18 March 2004 - 06:28 PM

QUOTE
Something else I have always thought of, "If you are smart enough to realise you are stupid, then you must not be as stupid as you think you are."


hmm... so.. do you realise that you are stupid? or do you think that you are smart? wink2.gif tongue.gif laugh.gif


#278    Phenomenon

Phenomenon

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 706 posts
  • Joined:24 Aug 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Yorkshire

Posted 19 March 2004 - 10:54 AM

Congratulations to all of you, you have managed to destroy this thread.  thumbsup.gif  


#279    Diebytheflyguy

Diebytheflyguy

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 3,185 posts
  • Joined:21 Feb 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Internets

  • It seemed like a good idea at the time...

Posted 24 March 2004 - 11:04 PM

I have a question.

Does anyone consider REVENGE stupid? Cause if you do, this is where animals are smarter than humans. They do not hold onto grudges or emotional baggage, and therefore do not thrive on revenge. We humans waste time angry and planning for revenge while the animsl world shrugs it off.

Unless you consider revenge not stupid then I guess this does not apply?


#280    strichar

strichar

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 417 posts
  • Joined:27 Feb 2004
  • Location:Cincinatti

  • I am the only god of my world, and only god of my world. -Jesiah Tinalinde

Posted 25 March 2004 - 03:24 AM

That is a good point. I think since humans have the ability for long term memory, we don't forget hostilities easily. If an animal had long term memory equal to ours, then maybe they would seek revenge for hostilities.

Avatar Animation done by thBarman. Thanks Barman.

Posted Image
"A man's dreams are an index to his greatness."

-- Cardinal Durand XVIII

The point is to discover that core of uniqueness that is in each of us, that is beyond all social roles and to make that the point from which we act, live, and think in the world.

#281    Diebytheflyguy

Diebytheflyguy

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 3,185 posts
  • Joined:21 Feb 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Internets

  • It seemed like a good idea at the time...

Posted 25 March 2004 - 03:43 AM

Thats true BUT since animals act on instinct not morals wouldnt this mean that if they did want to exact revenge they would do it instantly whereas humans weigh the good side and the bad side of revenge, usually plan it and then act on whether or not they want to proceed with revenge.


#282    strichar

strichar

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 417 posts
  • Joined:27 Feb 2004
  • Location:Cincinatti

  • I am the only god of my world, and only god of my world. -Jesiah Tinalinde

Posted 25 March 2004 - 03:56 AM

Well, I think, again that if if animals had long term memory like us they may have a very similiar mindset as we do. They would do that once, if they got their butt kicked they would think about what they were doing the next time, and probably plot their revenge.

Avatar Animation done by thBarman. Thanks Barman.

Posted Image
"A man's dreams are an index to his greatness."

-- Cardinal Durand XVIII

The point is to discover that core of uniqueness that is in each of us, that is beyond all social roles and to make that the point from which we act, live, and think in the world.

#283    Diebytheflyguy

Diebytheflyguy

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 3,185 posts
  • Joined:21 Feb 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Internets

  • It seemed like a good idea at the time...

Posted 27 March 2004 - 08:09 PM

QUOTE (strichar @ Mar 24 2004, 11:56 PM)
Well, I think, again that if if animals had long term memory like us they may have a very similiar mindset as we do. They would do that once, if they got their butt kicked they would think about what they were doing the next time, and probably plot their revenge.

Elephants have long term memory... And even if you think that long term memory affects an animals reaction for revenge, it really dosent. Look at people who fight. They may start and argument and then go onto boxing eachothers faces in. And if you look at gangs they do not take a long time to say, get revenge on other rival gangs. Long term revenge is for unsure people who wish to fully plan and think about what they are doing. Its my opinion but I dont really think animals are able to think out and plan revenge to be take. This does not say its because they dont have long term memory to help them with long term revenge, BUT is saying that if revenge were to be taken by animals it would only be done immediatly. That is their instinct.

When is the last time you've seen animals rage war on other animals species for doing something to them just like the Afgans did to the U.S. That whole war was based on revenge from the WTC and pentagon attacks.

Animals are about survival. They dont have the need for wasted time on revenge.

Edited by Diebytheflyguy, 27 March 2004 - 08:23 PM.


#284    Nethius

Nethius

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 669 posts
  • Joined:24 Jun 2003
  • Location:Nova Scotia

Posted 27 March 2004 - 08:43 PM

QUOTE (Diebytheflyguy @ Mar 24 2004, 11:04 PM)
...They do not hold onto grudges or emotional baggage, and therefore do not thrive on revenge...

now this isnt really revenge, but it's something

QUOTE
Monkey justice

A new study the behaviour of Capuchin monkeys shows that the primates have a sense of justice and fair play, like some humans. Researchers trained the monkeys to exchange tokens for food, usually a cucumber. If the monkeys saw their neighbour receive not a cucumber but a tasty grape, they responded by throwing their cucumber or token out of their cage (often at the researcher), sometimes even refusing to exchange future tokens for mere cucumbers. The monkeys became even angrier if they saw another monkey receive a grape for nothing. Only the females responded in this way-the researchers reasoned that the male monkeys were more interested in sex, the females in food.
Source: Nature

Source

Edited by Nethius, 27 March 2004 - 08:44 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users