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The Perfect Society


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#1    strichar

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 04:15 AM

Say you owned your own island. How would you like the society there to be. Or what was an example of your perfect society from history and why?

Mine would have been the Iroquois.
The original outdoorsmen, the Iroquois did it all: hunting, fishing, even playing full-contact Lacrosse without pads. On top of this, they were incredibly efficient fighters, and shrewd negotiators who constantly defied the odds against them.

Loosely speaking, Iroquois is the term for any member of the Five (later, Six) Nations composed of several Native American tribes speaking a language of the Iroquoian family: the Cayuga, Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Seneca, and Tuscarora (after 1722). At its greatest extent, the Five Nations occupied a vast territory around Lakes Ontario, Huron and Erie, in present-day New York state and Pennsylvania and southern Ontario and Quebec. Tradition credits the formation of the Iroquois Confederacy, forged between 1570 and 1600, to Dekanawidah, born a Huron, who is said to have persuaded Hiawatha, an influential Onondaga who had become the Mohawks' war chief, to abandon cannibalism and advance "peace, civil authority, righteousness, and the great law" as sanctions for confederation. Hiawatha's Ojibwa name meant "He Makes Rivers", but it might as well have been "Wears Big Shoes", because his leadership of the Iroquois became the stuff of legend -- so much so that he was immortalized in Longfellow's poem "The Song of Hiawatha".

Cemented mainly by their desire to stand together against invasion, the five tribes united in a common council composed of clan and village chiefs; each tribe had one vote, and unanimity was the rule. In this form, the Iroquois used a combination of military prowess and skilled diplomacy to conquer an empire. Until their solidarity finally cracked during the American Revolution, the Iroquois were even strong enough to deal with the European powers as equals.

For nearly two centuries before the American Revolution, the Iroquois stood athwart the path from the Eastern coast to the Great Lakes, keeping the route from permanent settlement by the French and containing the Dutch and the English. Throughout the 18th century the Six Nations remained consistent and bitter enemies of the French, who were allied with their traditional foes, the Algonquins and Hurons. The Iroquois' success in maintaining their autonomy from both the French and English was a remarkable achievement for an aboriginal people. But during the American War of Independence, a schism developed within the Iroquois Confederation. The Oneida and Tuscarora espoused the American cause, while the rest of the league, led by Chief Joseph Brant's Mohawks, fought for the British, decimating isolated American settlements. Eventually, the villages, fields, orchards and granaries, as well as the morale of the Iroquois, were destroyed in 1779 when Major-General John Sullivan led a retaliatory expedition of 4000 American regulars, and crushed their assembled warriors near present-day Elmira. Having finally acknowledged defeat in the Second Treaty of Fort Stanwix (1784), the Iroquois Confederacy effectively came to an end by ceding western Pennsylvania, New York and Kentucky to the United States. At the end of the Revolutionary War, there were less than 8000 Iroquois left. Even the 1940 U.S. census listed only 17,000 Iroquois in both the United States and Canada, but current figures approach 70,000 in about twenty settlements on eight reservations in New York, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Ontario and Quebec.

This to me is the perfect human society. What would be yours?

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#2    DC09

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 04:25 AM

No society.  tongue.gif
I find it all to be perfectly corruptable.  grin2.gif  


#3    strichar

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 04:30 AM

I agree actually, but that really goes against human nature. We are social beings. I'm just thinking that if I had a choice of society. I am an anarchist at heart though.

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"A man's dreams are an index to his greatness."

-- Cardinal Durand XVIII

The point is to discover that core of uniqueness that is in each of us, that is beyond all social roles and to make that the point from which we act, live, and think in the world.

#4    strichar

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Posted 02 March 2004 - 05:34 AM

Hmm...I'm starting to get a little...I can't think of the word right now. I mean why doesn't anyone post on my topics? I'm beginning to wonder why I joined. sad.gif Oh well, I guess all I can do is keep making more topics, and keep posting more.

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"A man's dreams are an index to his greatness."

-- Cardinal Durand XVIII

The point is to discover that core of uniqueness that is in each of us, that is beyond all social roles and to make that the point from which we act, live, and think in the world.

#5    STIX

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 06:52 AM

I have the perfect society devised, it is based on a belief system, it is as follows:

what you do in life reflects how difficult your next life would be. for instance if you invent something that saves millions of lives (like a vaccine) you will have a pretty cushy life ahead of you in your next life (say the son of a millionair), or if you invent something that destroys life (Atom bomb) you will have a horrible life ahead of you after you die (lets say a homeless child in poverty stricken country). this would have to be a concrete fact in order for people to believe it, so I would write my own bible depicting someone who died and returned only to remember their previos life, or something like that. anyway, people would have to be decent and act on virtue and honor in the decisions they make otherwise they would screw up their next life. Of course this would mean that democracy would be the system of choice and people would not corrupt it (bush, the sponsorship scandal in canada(these are examples of corruption within democracy)).



#6    stillcrazy

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 09:52 AM

Not to drop a fly in the ointment But the only perfect society is one without humans.  


#7    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:42 PM

here. another on UM.


#8    joc

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 01:58 PM

QUOTE
Mine would have been the Iroquois.


The Iroquois were also extremely savage in their dealings with captives!
It was a common practice for The Iroquois to torture their captives by cutting off parts of their body while they were still alive and cooking and eating the flesh whilst their captives looked on in agony.  

If I had 'society' my way...everyone would live Talon's way....in a Marxist existence while worshipping at the foot of the cross.  All would do for all as Marx
envisioned and everyone would forgive all as Jesus envisioned.

how does he do it?  The inate ability to bring either politics or religion or both into a thread which has nothing to do with either tongue.gif  

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#9    Spartan

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 02:29 PM

   The perfect society does exist,
But not for the corrupt,
but man can not live on bread alone  SO i guess the best world would be when Daddy gets home,,,,,God that is,lol thumbsup.gif  

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#10    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 04:38 PM

ive said this before, but a perfect society is impossible amoung sinful beings, peace  between nations is an illusion, and perfectness doesnt belong on this earth, rather in heaven only.


#11    Spartan

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 04:42 PM

  Maybe not now,but man does deserve perfectness,,in fact its a promise to some,haha alien.gif  ph34r.gif  alien.gif  

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#12    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 04:51 PM

QUOTE (Spartan @ Mar 3 2004, 03:42 PM)
Maybe not now, but man does deserve perfectness, in fact its a promise to some.

i wasnt disagreeing with you, mr spartan. i was saying that on earth perfectness is impossibel (with jesus being the exception), and in heaven its the expected.  


#13    Spartan

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 05:01 PM

  oh JC(Jesus Christ)
well then you know he once said that there are better people than him through our time,look it up(no offence)
2nd the only thing that pisses God the most is.....the corupt nature of man.
so we lose,lol thumbsup.gif


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#14    secondhand

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Posted 05 March 2004 - 01:06 PM

The perfect society is the one where I am king of all I survey, with jesters and everything. And if somebody doesn't agree they get burnt at the stake.


#15    man_in_mudboots

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Posted 05 March 2004 - 04:26 PM

  laugh.gif  





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