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2+2=4 equates a certainty of god


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#706    MARAB0D

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 10:22 AM

MEATLOAF on Aug 2 2008, 10:14 PM, said:

Have you heard an EVP before, my friend?  If I know where to find a purely spiritual being that is willing to speak, then I can go in my physical form and record the said spirits voice and thus have evidence of its existence for all the world to hear.


I've heard of EVP, but I have never heard of any revelations delivered by them. Mostly they seem to be crickets, frogs, grasshoppers - or even electric cables, underground waters etc. Keep Abraham as an example - he did not need a tape recorder, he was just talking to God directly.


#707    MARAB0D

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 10:33 AM

An Urban Legend on Aug 2 2008, 10:14 PM, said:

Oh really?! Like what? Personal experience? Everyone who has had a personal experience's belief is true then......

There is evidence of things which only exist in spirit? Fine, those things can have as much "evidence" as you want that they exist in spirit, as long as they don't have any evidence in reality I can still say things like this: what can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.


It is like that, but still not exactly like that, as we really have capacity to receive knowledge or evidences by irrational means. For example Mozart was "receiving" his symphonies at once, in a matter of seconds - so he was not really composing them, but his time was used to record them; often he was not even using any musical instruments, just ink and paper.

Science knows similar examples as well - Archimedes' law, Newtonian law of gravity, Periodic Law and even Relativity. Einstein was admitting that Relativity was "given" to him, and he spend his time not developing it, but interpreting mathematically. It happened to me to read his lectures given in Princeton university, and it is pretty clear that his Math has a descriptive nature. Mendeleyev saw Periodic Table in his dream, Newton received the apple falling on his head, and Archimedes was simply taking a bath... Actually, one of the research methods which now starts to become popular is Intuitive Science, where a sort of meditation is used to acquire the concepts, which later only getting confirmed by experiment. These all cases can be seen as "going in Spirit".


#708    MEATLOAF

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 10:48 AM

marabod on Aug 2 2008, 08:22 PM, said:

I've heard of EVP, but I have never heard of any revelations delivered by them. Mostly they seem to be crickets, frogs, grasshoppers - or even electric cables, underground waters etc. Keep Abraham as an example - he did not need a tape recorder, he was just talking to God directly.


Because the spirits involved with EVPs are usually those of humans (and dead ones at that), they will most likely not give you any revelations.   According to my beliefs, however, God is very much alive, and, because he is all-powerful, can pick and chose who hears him and what they hear from him.

Edited by MEATLOAF, 02 August 2008 - 07:37 PM.


#709    MARAB0D

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 11:08 AM

MEATLOAF on Aug 2 2008, 10:48 PM, said:

Because the spirits involved with EVPs are usually those of humans, (and dead ones at that) they will most likely not give you any revelations.   According to my beliefs, however, God is very much alive, and, because he is all-powerful, can pick and chose who hears him and what they hear from him.


That is what I was saying - God is Allmighty, Allah Akbar that is... Why would God need some loose spirit or a tape-recorder to send a message? There are other ways to knock to our head... Those EVPs I heard contained no clear words at all, only some murmuring, gibberish. One can spend months trying to guess whats it all about - and when God gives us personal message, it is always more than clear.


#710    Dr. D

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 06:18 PM

WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT on Aug 2 2008, 03:50 AM, said:

Ok... I get the rules of the game.... must have been, must be, and must forever be......


we needed air to breath...we need air to breath...we will need air to breath

hows this???


Did "we" always exist?  If we colonize other planets in future centuries, will we always need air to breath?

And funny that you should mention that . . . . Genesis 1 does not say that God created air . . . . hmmm . . . .


#711    WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 07:39 PM

marabod on Aug 2 2008, 12:07 AM, said:

OMG - what happened to the other 9? Haven't you by chance come across that villain Hercules who took my skin away?

No,..but if I find him I;ll check for ya!!!  Have to find my heads...   have to find my heads... have to find my heads...
Whic way did they go????   hmmm....   lol    

you crack me up!!


#712    MEATLOAF

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 07:43 PM

Expatriate on Aug 3 2008, 04:18 AM, said:

Did "we" always exist?  If we colonize other planets in future centuries, will we always need air to breath?

And funny that you should mention that . . . . Genesis 1 does not say that God created air . . . . hmmm . . . .


This is exactly why absolutes should be regarded as single events of varying lengths instead of infinite and constant things.  The current existence of the human need for air is an event (a single absolute or a collection of absolutes) in itself that once started and may one day end.


#713    WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 07:44 PM

Expatriate on Aug 2 2008, 02:18 PM, said:

Did "we" always exist?  If we colonize other planets in future centuries, will we always need air to breath?

And funny that you should mention that . . . . Genesis 1 does not say that God created air . . . . hmmm . . . .

The air and a human needing it has always been...its a constant....

It was a need, it is a need and will be a need.


#714    WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 07:45 PM

MEATLOAF on Aug 2 2008, 03:43 PM, said:

This is exactly why absolutes should be regarded as single events of varying lengths instead of infinite and constant things.  The current existence of the human need for air is an event (a single absolute or a collection of absolutes) in itself that once started and may one day end.

2 great minds thinking alike at the same time.... hmmm  original.gif  original.gif  original.gif


#715    Dr. D

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Posted 02 August 2008 - 07:55 PM

WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT on Aug 2 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

The air and a human needing it has always been...its a constant....

It was a need, it is a need and will be a need.


Humans have "always been?"  Maybe almost always in Genesis (I'm being kind and giving you a pass on the first five days) but the Triceritops and Stegosaurus have a different version.

There is already active research in how to change the respiratory system to accept substitute gases in the event of colonizing other planets.  Therefore, will it always be a need?


#716    MEATLOAF

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 02:19 AM

Expatriate on Aug 3 2008, 04:55 AM, said:

Humans have "always been?"  Maybe almost always in Genesis (I'm being kind and giving you a pass on the first five days) but the Triceritops and Stegosaurus have a different version.

There is already active research in how to change the respiratory system to accept substitute gases in the event of colonizing other planets.  Therefore, will it always be a need?


The current existence of humans is an event as is the current existence of the need of humans to breath air.  Each are absolutes that once began and will most likely end one day.


#717    Dr. D

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 02:27 AM

MEATLOAF on Aug 3 2008, 03:19 AM, said:

The current existence of humans is an event as is the current existence of the need of humans to breath air.  Each are absolutes that once began and will most likely end one day.


If events are absolutes, then how can Christianity be an absolute truth when it is based upon a written history of events that are unprovable, have no evidences or physical references?

Either events are absolute truths and the New Tesatment isn't or the New Testament is an absolute truth and events are not.


#718    MEATLOAF

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 03:01 AM

Dr. D on Aug 3 2008, 11:27 AM, said:

If events are absolutes, then how can Christianity be an absolute truth when it is based upon a written history of events that are unprovable, have no evidences or physical references?

Either events are absolute truths and the New Tesatment isn't or the New Testament is an absolute truth and events are not.


This is why humans must usually rely on relative truths and faith for such things.  I can't tell you what drinks you have had today, and you yourself will most likely not be able to know what beverages you have had today in a week's time.  However, if I were observing you and recording what beverages you had, then, as long as I preserve my data and keep it with me, I can tell you what they were anytime you wish until the day that you die.  If I die first, then I can pass the data to someone else and they can tell you instead.  

Let's say that a club of people interested in what you have had to drink today develops.  Allow me to go on and say that this club is in existence at least two-thousand years after I recorded the data of your drinks.  In that two thousand years, this club has been persecuted and the objects that you used to drink were destroyed along with as much evidence for your existence and your drinks as possible by the persecutors.  Luckily for the club, the data has survived and is largely complete.  However,  the club no longer has any evidence whatsover that you had the drinks described in the data or that you existed other than the data itself.  In other words, just because it takes faith to believe in something from two-thousand years ago doesn't mean that it didn't exist.  

For me, I believe (or accept the relative truth) that the statement that Jesus is the only way is closest to an absolute truth that has been ongoing since God first created it.  The existence of this method of entry to heaven in itself is an absolute according to my relative truth.

Edited by MEATLOAF, 03 August 2008 - 03:05 AM.


#719    MARAB0D

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 03:34 AM

Dr. D on Aug 3 2008, 02:27 PM, said:

If events are absolutes, then how can Christianity be an absolute truth when it is based upon a written history of events that are unprovable, have no evidences or physical references?

Either events are absolute truths and the New Tesatment isn't or the New Testament is an absolute truth and events are not.


The roots of Christianity may be untrue, but Christianity exists objectively, its beliefs can be clearly formulated and its followers counted - means Christianity itself is an absolute truth and its existance is a scientific fact. I am not touching the contents, just the matrix itself. This is actually a proof that any subjective belief can be shared and made objective to a degree, as the subject of Christianity is an obvious part of the Objective world - even the Muslims admit that Christianity exists, so far only Mormons are expressing the doubts.


#720    Agent. Mulder

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Posted 03 August 2008 - 06:00 PM

MEATLOAF on Aug 2 2008, 11:14 AM, said:

Have you heard an EVP before, my friend?  If I know where to find a purely spiritual being that is willing to speak, then I can go in my physical form and record the said spirits voice and thus have evidence of its existence for all the world to hear.


its not really evidence at all. its more interpretation, and what you Think was heard on the recorder. funny how they only use Low quality ones as well to pick up the 'voices'.
its just like in a song, you dont know what theyre saying in it, but then someone says "oh, i think theyre saying ________ at that part". then the next time you listen to it "ooh, yeah. i hear theyre saying that now".
and then you find out its something Completely different.

the truth is out there....




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