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2+2=4 equates a certainty of god


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#781    Sherapy

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:25 PM

jorel perhaps you can address the  tree in that garden that   god told  the kiddlys not to eat because   if they did they would die  because  god banned them from  eating from the  tree of good and evil..a tree that produces friut that if you eat it  cause one to  Know  like a god or gods........hmmmm

also perhaps you could touch on  how the 'serpent' was the cleverest animal that god had ever made as he spoke to eve about  how god was not really serious after all..... etc etc Gen. 3:1-6   hmmmm


i actaully concur with you i dont  take the bible to be anymore then a narrative a vehicle to convey  principles  of a specific tradition or set of rituals  ..i certainly do not dispute that ..

yet many chrsitians  do take  genesis to be literal, you do also i have  read you post that  the bible is the inerrant word of god as far as you are concerned,     son happens to  be one of those  christains  as well as WWF,  Ozi, and  Apostle,  etc etc.. are they ignorant  also jorel???? in fact the only one i know that doesn't take genesis literal   is PA ....




#782    churchanddestroy

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:25 PM

Jor-el on Aug 4 2008, 05:16 PM, said:

Yeah, maybe you are right and that was very arrogant of me, yet it doesn't excuse peoples inherent lazyness when it comes to studying the bible. So go right ahead and call me arrogant, but at least in future don't give us anymore hogwash about talking snakes...

You know Jor-el, its people like you who disgusted me enough to leave Christianity. You are an incredibly arrogant person, and the way you act, or, well, type, in no way shape or form reflects well on Christianity. If you were the only Christian I were to ever meet, I would never consider being a Christian for fear that I would turn into you. So maybe you should take your self-righteous indignant attitude and reflect long and hard on what you believe and how you don't act on those beliefs. Like I said in a previous post, for me, salvation is determined (at least in this world) on how true to yourself you are. Someone who is true to himself is "saved" if you follow me, and someone who is not true to himself is "damned". So I think you should think long and hard about how the way you act does not reflect the pure gentle message of Christ. So you have two options, to either drop the arrogance and pick up your cross like a good Christian, or change your belief system.

When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon.

#783    Sherapy

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:31 PM

churchanddestroy on Aug 4 2008, 03:12 PM, said:

Maybe I'm ignorant, and maybe I'm not, but at least I'm not arrogant. At least I understand my limitations, and at least I do not pretend to know the secrets of the Universe.

Edit: PS, how very Christian of you  rolleyes.gif


church  Jorel was out of line... simple as that...you were not  in eror lots of christian who come here beleive that  the snake talked and i mean literally or that  a loving god would sentence all of humankind to doom for  his errors...and lack of accountability....  

perhaps its jorel that  is relooking at his construct  and thats a good thing... thumbsup.gif

Edited by Tangerine Sheri, 04 August 2008 - 10:33 PM.




#784    Jor-el

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:33 PM

Dr. D on Aug 4 2008, 11:24 PM, said:

Kindergarten teachers have tales of dragons, witches, monsters and magicians . . . . they are called fairytales.  It is at that same level that snakes and donkeys speak by any normal human rationale.

My comment as to translation . . . . was correct and I doubt that you can refute it.

No amount of exegesis or imagination can convert an event defying all natural law into a believable context unless you are prone to such beliefs in the first place.  Many, like me, are not.  

The hostile attitude of Christians is exactly like yours.  If anyone considers such tales to be less than credible, they are debunkers . . . . maybe infidels?  Instead of defending the Bible, why not live by it and accept that other people have their opinions and the right to express them?


Oh I can accept people not believing, I even accept that many will consider it a fairytale as you put it, what I don't accept is that people feel they can say what they want and not recieve an adequate response in the same vein.

If we were anywhere else beside this forum, I would respect your wishes, but just as you feel empowered to speak your mind, so do I.

What I don't accept is criticism from those who don't even bother to at least study what they are criticizing. I recently had a debate with someone regarding evolution and that person was far more knowledgable than I on the subject, I conceded that, and we parted ways amicably, but I at leat tried to understand what he was saying to me.

I believe others owe the bible at least that meager respect, even if they don't accept it, as I didn't accept the stand on evolution.



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#785    Sherapy

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:40 PM

Jor-el on Aug 4 2008, 03:33 PM, said:

Oh I can accept people not believing, I even accept that many will consider it a fairytale as you put it, what I don't accept is that people feel they can say what they want and not recieve an adequate response in the same vein.

If we were anywhere else beside this forum, I would respect your wishes, but just as you feel empowered to speak your mind, so do I.

What I don't accept is criticism from those who don't even bother to at least study what they are criticizing. I recently had a debate with someone regarding evolution and that person was far more knowledgable than I on the subject, I conceded that, and we parted ways amicably, but I at leat tried to understand what he was saying to me.

I believe others owe the bible at least that meager respect, even if they don't accept it, as I didn't accept the stand on evolution.


i wonder if you did concede or if your ego is still bruised....copasetic  is a hard act to follow few could  hold their own with him, not just you....quit beating yourself up. jorel ...

Edited by Tangerine Sheri, 04 August 2008 - 10:45 PM.




#786    Jor-el

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:41 PM

Tangerine Sheri on Aug 4 2008, 11:25 PM, said:

jorel perhaps you can address the  tree in that garden that   god told  the kiddlys not to eat because   if they did they would die  because  god banned them from  eating from the  tree of good and evil..a tree that produces friut that if you eat it  cause one to  Know  like a god or gods........hmmmm

also perhaps you could touch on  how the 'serpent' was the cleverest animal that god had ever made as he spoke to eve about  how god was not really serious after all..... etc etc Gen. 3:1-6   hmmmm


i actaully concur with you i dont  take the bible to be anymore then a narrative a vehicle to convey  principles  of a specific tradition or set of rituals  ..i certainly do not dispute that ..

yet many chrsitians  do take  genesis to be literal, you do also i have  read you post that  the bible is the inerrant word of god as far as you are concerned,     son happens to  be one of those  christains  as well as WWF,  Ozi, and  Apostle,  etc etc.. are they ignorant  also jorel???? in fact the only one i know that doesn't take genesis literal   is PA ....


I can touch on all those subjects and many more but I don't see any good coming from it, I'm starting to believe this a useless exercise, where I'm speaking to people who don't even want to understand the bible. Yes there are many who take the literal stance in regards to this issue and others that don't, I can only respond for myself. God says what he does and does what he says.

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#787    Jor-el

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:46 PM

churchanddestroy on Aug 4 2008, 11:25 PM, said:

You know Jor-el, its people like you who disgusted me enough to leave Christianity. You are an incredibly arrogant person, and the way you act, or, well, type, in no way shape or form reflects well on Christianity. If you were the only Christian I were to ever meet, I would never consider being a Christian for fear that I would turn into you. So maybe you should take your self-righteous indignant attitude and reflect long and hard on what you believe and how you don't act on those beliefs. Like I said in a previous post, for me, salvation is determined (at least in this world) on how true to yourself you are. Someone who is true to himself is "saved" if you follow me, and someone who is not true to himself is "damned". So I think you should think long and hard about how the way you act does not reflect the pure gentle message of Christ. So you have two options, to either drop the arrogance and pick up your cross like a good Christian, or change your belief system.


Church get off your high horse.... if you are free to speak of christians like you do, it shouldn't bother you in the least to get some back... what were you expecting, me turning the other cheek?

If you don't like it you can always quit the forum, I did for awhile and it really did wonders for my complexion.

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#788    Dr. D

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:50 PM


Oh I can accept people not believing, I even accept that many will consider it a fairytale as you put it, what I don't accept is that people feel they can say what they want and not recieve an adequate response in the same vein.

Well, you need to get used to it because it's a natural part of normal life.  No belief is exempt from citicism simply because it is yours.

If we were anywhere else beside this forum, I would respect your wishes, but just as you feel empowered to speak your mind, so do I.

In itself this comments speaks volumes . . . . that we might speak of any other topic but those touching upon personal belief are held aloof and protected.  

What I don't accept is criticism from those who don't even bother to at least study what they are criticizing. I recently had a debate with someone regarding evolution and that person was far more knowledgable than I on the subject, I conceded that, and we parted ways amicably, but I at leat tried to understand what he was saying to me.

You could study Satanism for the rest of your life, but would you accept it.  Don't be so pompous as to believe that any countering opinion is formed from ignorance.  Few people from a normal walk of life have studied Scripture more than me and I have found it wanting.  I have found its mythology and perpetuated legends to be past my willingness to believe.  That is not ignorance . . . . it is choice.  And when I speak of my decision and its foundation, should I call you ignorant because you have not shared it?

I believe others owe the bible at least that meager respect, even if they don't accept it, as I didn't accept the stand on evolution.

I respect portions of the Bible . . . . those portions that have helped people live better lives  . . . .  but I reject the tales born of superstition and supported by faith.  Again, you make the assumption that I give the Bible no respect and again, you were wrong.


#789    Sherapy

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:52 PM

Jor-el on Aug 4 2008, 03:41 PM, said:

I can touch on all those subjects and many more but I don't see any good coming from it, I'm starting to believe this a useless exercise, where I'm speaking to people who don't even want to understand the bible. Yes there are many who take the literal stance in regards to this issue and others that don't, I can only respond for myself. God says what he does and does what he says.


Jorel come on its gonna be okay  you have a great opp to teach something  or raise awareness or encourage and inspire self learning  but you don't get to tell people how they should think, what they  should  think and call them ignorant for not  thinking like you....  they have to find thier own way......




#790    Sherapy

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:53 PM

Jor-el on Aug 4 2008, 03:46 PM, said:

Church get off your high horse.... if you are free to speak of christians like you do, it shouldn't bother you in the least to get some back... what were you expecting, me turning the other cheek?

If you don't like it you can always quit the forum, I did for awhile and it really did wonders for my complexion.


ouch.... crying.gif or you can find a way to create harmony with church, jorel....

Edited by Tangerine Sheri, 04 August 2008 - 10:55 PM.




#791    Jor-el

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 10:53 PM

Tangerine Sheri on Aug 4 2008, 11:31 PM, said:

church  Jorel was out of line... simple as that...you were not  in eror lots of christian who come here beleive that  the snake talked and i mean literally or that  a loving god would sentence all of humankind to doom for  his errors...and lack of accountability....  

perhaps its jorel that  is relooking at his construct  and thats a good thing... thumbsup.gif


Then again how many of those christians actually bother to study the bible as well, but they are "christians"... and no I'm not relooking at my construct, I'm just fed up as any person has got a right to be in when he sees people speaking of things they haven't got the foggiest notion of.

Just as copasetic is an expert in his field, so am I in mine... and just as he doesn't take kindly to ignorance, so do I not take kindly to willfull ignorance of those who speak of the bible in the terms I've seen lately.

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#792    Sherapy

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:02 PM

Jor-el on Aug 4 2008, 03:53 PM, said:

Then again how many of those christians actually bother to study the bible as well, but they are "christians"... and no I'm not relooking at my construct, I'm just fed up as any person has got a right to be in when he sees people speaking of things they haven't got the foggiest notion of.

Just as copasetic is an expert in his field, so am I in mine... and just as he doesn't take kindly to ignorance, so do I not take kindly to willfull ignorance of those who speak of the bible in the terms I've seen lately.


copasetic doesn't  advcocate picking  on others  , he happens to be my freind and he would  be  seeking to  help one learn in any way he could .. those  in intellegensia have a code of behaviior they   do  not  berate or belittle another and call themsleves an expert they seek to  bridge the gap  find a way to come  together in understanding perhaps you have misunderstood copasetic....




#793    Jor-el

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:08 PM

Tangerine Sheri on Aug 5 2008, 12:02 AM, said:

copasetic doesn't  advcocate picking  on others  , he happens to be my freind and he would  be  seeking to  help one learn in any way he could .. those  in intellegensia have a code of behaviior they   do  not  berate or belittle another and call themsleves an expert they seek to  bridge the gap  find a way to come  together in understanding perhaps you have misunderstood copasetic....


That is all well and good, but I don't find the same treatment when it is applied to speaking of the bible. There everything goes... and I think I've said enough on that subject.

If someone wants to criticise let them do it but at least know what you are criticizing, talking snakes... jeez...

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#794    Sherapy

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:20 PM

Jor-el on Aug 4 2008, 04:08 PM, said:

That is all well and good, but I don't find the same treatment when it is applied to speaking of the bible. There everything goes... and I think I've said enough on that subject.

If someone wants to criticise let them do it but at least know what you are criticizing, talking snakes... jeez...


jorel  the point is  its in the bible and its often  taken literal along with all kind of things...this is taught still today as we speak  someone is learning that snakes talk and that canes turn into serpents and trees produce fruit that gives secret knowledge.....and that there is  a Jesus even when academically/ historically we have   a paragraph about  this person if indeed their was such a person. or a diety that can't  be known but wrote a book well which book there  are lots of sacred books all claiming the same thing............we have people who beleive its gods word to discriminate  towards gays and women and we have those that beleive that  death is not really death but a transition to an eternal life in paradise....we have  those that beleive in spirit  prisons and purgatory  and hell and that there is only one god one path one truth..so I"d say you have your work cut out for you Jorel.....

Edited by Tangerine Sheri, 04 August 2008 - 11:21 PM.




#795    Jor-el

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 11:26 PM

Tangerine Sheri on Aug 5 2008, 12:20 AM, said:

jorel  the point is  its in the bible and its often  taken literal along with all kind of things...this is taught still today as we speak  someone is learning that snakes talk and that canes turn into serpents and trees produce fruit that gives secret knowledge.....and that there is  a Jesus even when academically/ historically we have   a paragraph about  this person if indeed their was such a person. or a diety that can't  be known but wrote a book well which book there  are lots of sacred books all claiming the same thing............we have people who beleive its gods word to discriminate  towards gays and women and we have those that beleive that  death is not really death but a transition to an eternal life in paradise....we have  those that beleive in spirit  prisons and purgatory  and hell and that there is only one god one path one truth..so I"d say you have your work cut out for you Jorel.....


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