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boundary between animals and us


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#61    stillcrazy

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 03:44 AM

QUOTE
Same with advancing in society , some may argue the humans ability to technologically advance is what separates us ... but how do we really know if other animals such as dolphins do not advance ? They are proven to be self aware and also have their own speech , perhaps dolphins pass down wisdom and logic to their young . We just cant know for sure can we ?


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Great comment. Dolphins, apes and humans are the only animals known to have sex for pleasure. The military/gvernment have spent years and a bunch of money on researching both animals, due to thier intelligence.  


#62    ambyglam

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 05:18 PM

QUOTE (bathory @ Mar 9 2004, 03:19 AM)

we don't have to deal with your bra-burning feminist crap:P

i dont recall ever burning a bra, infact i dont recall ever wearing one

loll

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#63    Chris_com28

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 07:57 PM

How much easier would it be without bras?  whistling2.gif

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#64    stillcrazy

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 10:06 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE (bathory @ Mar 9 2004, 03:19 AM)

we don't have to deal with your bra-burning feminist crap:P 


i dont recall ever burning a bra, infact i dont recall ever wearing one

QUOTE
How much easier would it be without bras? 


I'm not sure where this stuff came in but in a sense it does fit the thread.
Since I haven't seen an animal wear a cross your heart bra, I guess you could say it's a difference between us.




#65    Chris_com28

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Posted 09 March 2004 - 10:34 PM

Maybe it's why people turn to beastality. He he. Sorry I'm to used to the "liberal" attitudes on bolt.

I think it may be possible to detect if an animal prays or at least meditates. You can try to use a brain scan during vairious times of the day and detect what brain frequency it's in. I'm not sure but I think you could also detect if it's conscious during delta and maybe other signs that indicate meditation. I heard of htis device that could deliver pleasure to mice. You could use that with operant conditioning to strengthen the chance of them performing the desired behaviour. Though I see how this could turn out like the Pavlov or Skinner experiment as some of the equipment might not be portable.

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#66    Diebytheflyguy

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Posted 10 March 2004 - 09:40 PM

And... what are you saying the boundary between animals and us is?


#67    strichar

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 10:46 AM

I think that the boundary between animals and humans is something we can't quite describe. Abstract thought and theory for sure is a big factor but there is definitely something else too. I can feel it but, my vocabulary knowledge will not allow me to describe it to anyone.

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#68    Druidus

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Posted 18 March 2004 - 03:47 PM

Perhaps you are "high".   laugh.gif    How do you define abstract thought?  I've never ever felt a feeling of superiority over a member of another species or race so I have difficulty understanding what you've just said.  How about you describe your feeling as best you can with your limited vocabulary?

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#69    STIX

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 10:08 PM

you have to think about a humans thought process vs, lets say, a dog. If a person gets burned from something we remember the event the details leading up to the event, the pain, and the events preceeding the experience. A dog wouldnt make this connection, it would become an instinct to it to avoid the same experience because it knows it is bad, it doesnt necessarily know why it is bad. This is the same as teaching a dog tricks, sit for example; when we teach a dog to sit we must give it a reward or else it wont do the trick. Once it has learned to sit then everytime you say "sit" it will sit because it knows that it is good, but it doesnt remember why, therefore a treat is not required.


#70    Chris_com28

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Posted 19 March 2004 - 10:59 PM

That's true. I believe that some animals do have morals but they are different from ours and probably more externalised.

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#71    STIX

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Posted 20 March 2004 - 03:33 AM

yes, an animal sees the world differently than a human does. The one big difference that our intelligence allows is innovation, without innovation we would still be living in caves.


#72    Chris_com28

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Posted 20 March 2004 - 04:24 AM

That is true but I heard that we lived for milliond of years with the same simple hunting tools. It was only when we learned to use fire that we advanced more. I read that fire can be used in meditation maybe meditation was a part of it.
Anyway, some species or brids (I think) have been kown to use tools like stones and stuff to open things like eggs, so they're not completely different from us, they just think a little differentely.
I'm a bit drunk so some of this might not make any sense.

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#73    Seraphina

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Posted 20 March 2004 - 10:02 AM

QUOTE
That is true but I heard that we lived for milliond of years with the same simple hunting tools.


I don't think modern man has been around for "millions of years"...closer to few tens of thousands tongue.gif

QUOTE
It was only when we learned to use fire that we advanced more.


Actually, our advancement came with the evolution of wheat, some 10'000 years ago, that allowed our species to settle in one place as large groups. It was only when we formed this never before seen kind of social structure, that our rapid advance really took off. Fire probably didn't have much to do with it...not outside of cartoons anyway tongue.gif We warmed ourselves with animal skins and constructed shelters for a long time at this social level before we knew how to manipulate fire.

QUOTE
Anyway, some species or brids (I think) have been kown to use tools like stones and stuff to open things like eggs, so they're not completely different from us, they just think a little differentely.


The definition of mankind is "an animal that uses and makes tools to a set pattern"...while it's true that some other animals use tools...some of the greater apes and monkeys even show the primitive beginnings of tool making, we are to date the only animal that constructs tools from multiple components to a set and universal pattern...we're also the only animal that uses tools to make other tools.

There's a huge gulf between a bird using a rock to crack and egg, and a primative human binding a stone to a stick to make a dagger, and using the dagger to skin an animal, and using the animal skin to make clothing.

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#74    joc

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Posted 20 March 2004 - 02:32 PM

QUOTE
The definition of mankind is "an animal that uses and makes tools to a set pattern"...while it's true that some other animals use tools...some of the greater apes and monkeys even show the primitive beginnings of tool making, we are to date the only animal that constructs tools from multiple components to a set and universal pattern...we're also the only animal that uses tools to make other tools.

There's a huge gulf between a bird using a rock to crack and egg, and a primative human binding a stone to a stick to make a dagger, and using the dagger to skin an animal, and using the animal skin to make clothing.


Is therefore the boundary between Man and Animal the ability to maniulate his environment with tools to the extent that he does?  What is it then that allows Man this unique perspective into the material world?  While we have discussed to death in a similar thread the intelligence of other animals in comparison to the intelligence of man,  it seems that a 'higher level of intelligence', either Evolved or Created by design, lies at the heart of the 'boundary' question.

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#75    ambyglam

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Posted 20 March 2004 - 07:36 PM

i think the boundary is what we make it, some people see animals as nothing more than food, some people like animals a lot and some people choose to live with animals in their homes!

therefore these boundaries are set by the individuals, because animals who are cared for are different from wild animals so the boundaries are different there too!

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