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Gay people & past lives...


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#16    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 08:14 PM

Ad hom comments removed. Lets stick to discussing the idea not personal comments about the person making them.

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#17    White Crane Feather

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:41 PM

View PostMarcus, on 17 July 2008 - 06:01 PM, said:

I just had this interesting thought and I always wondered why some people acted more opposite of their gender & why they're attracted to the same sex. I think gay people may have been their opposite genders in their past lives.. Meaning a gay guy was probably a female in his past life & the female was actually a male in her past life. For some odd reason when they reincarnated into the present, the female's soul was incarnated into the males & vice versa. Which is why maybe some guys are very feminine & the girls are tom boyish. Yeah they're a female, but their soul is actually of a males, which is why they carry traits and have an attraction for the same sex. Anyway it was just a thought and I'm curious about people's views on this subject...

Also no offense to anyone if I offended anyone with this topic in anyway..
Not the case. I was very frank with a gay man one time and I asked him why all the efeminate mannerisms? If gay men are still men then should sort of act like the rest of us. His answer was that like all men they pick up on pieces of their culture and identity and emulate their piers. The only "men" that act like women are true transgenderes. The rest do not act like any women that I know, so its completely unfair to say their traits are feminine. If they are only on a very superficial level. Gay is gay... It is not feminine. And many men do not "act" .."gay"... Thay simply are.

I wish people would stop trying to find a reason for homosexuality. It's pointless.

Edited by White Crane Feather, 12 October 2013 - 11:45 PM.

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#18    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:51 PM

keninsc, in case you missed my earlier comment

View PostDaughter of the Nine Moons, on 12 October 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

Ad hom comments removed. Lets stick to discussing the idea not personal comments about the person making them.


"You cannot pass," he said. … "I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."

#19    kmt_sesh

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:08 AM

It's an interesting topic, all right.

I have two very dear friends who are both gay men, yet they do not "act" in the stereotypical way that gay men are "supposed" to. I didn't know they were gay until they told me—although they both like to kid me that I don't have "gaydar" (which is true, I don't, unless it's really obvious in someone I meet, which is usually not the case). They both seem certain that in most cases, gay men who act extremely effeminately are doing so deliberately. Just as we straight people tend to do, gay folks will act in ways to attract the types of people to whom they are attracted. All I can say is, as a straight man I feel blessed to be free of social hangups on this issue and couldn't care less about one's sexual orientation—or I wouldn't have these two terrific guys as friends.

What I really wonder about are extremely young children who strongly believe they're the opposite sex. All of you have probably seen this on talk shows or eslewhere: young boys who think they're girls and demand to wear dresses, or young girls who do the opposite. I actually met a child like this once in my museum work. The child was only around five and looked like any adorable little towheaded boy, but the mom explained she was a girl. I apologized profusely but the mom brushed it off. This little girl insisted she was a boy and should therefore dress like a boy. One must wonder what causes this.

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#20    SSilhouette

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:54 PM

View PostMarcus, on 17 July 2008 - 06:01 PM, said:

I just had this interesting thought and I always wondered why some people acted more opposite of their gender & why they're attracted to the same sex. I think gay people may have been their opposite genders in their past lives.. Meaning a gay guy was probably a female in his past life & the female was actually a male in her past life. For some odd reason when they reincarnated into the present, the female's soul was incarnated into the males & vice versa. Which is why maybe some guys are very feminine & the girls are tom boyish. Yeah they're a female, but their soul is actually of a males, which is why they carry traits and have an attraction for the same sex. Anyway it was just a thought and I'm curious about people's views on this subject...

Also no offense to anyone if I offended anyone with this topic in anyway..

You have hit the nail on the head.  And this is precisely why most religions forbid homosexuality.  Without even being fully aware as to "the Law's" original intent, it is precisely because of the erasure of past lives in order to progress.  If a person focuses on an aspect of a past life they can become intractably stuck.  If you were a man in your last life and now find yourself a woman, it is precisely because learning submission in its various subtle forms is essential.  And same is true vice versa.  This is just one of the two main reasons homosexuality is a bad idea to mainstream.  The second follows:

The problem isn't the mechanics of gay sex and that it is obviously a misuse of the reproductive organs since two same genders cannot reproduce.  The problem is in blurring the matrix.  The matrix was established male/female; or it arose, or evolved, what have you, in such a concrete form with actual physiological differences between the two genders, their brains, their hormones and how those hormones affect the brain that the basic tribe function is like a default program.  Tampering with the default program and blurring the matrix means that lessons needed to be learned this time around may not be availible reliably.  This is a metaphysical catastrophe!  If you accept that we are here to learn and progress spiritually, not having the structure of the "classroom" availible is equal to trying to sharpen a blade on a pile of jello.

Gender bending [homosexuality] is extremely unwise therefore.  And on levels most people would never even begin to believe were the reason for that conclusion.

1. It can fixate people in past lives, rendering them stuck and

2. Worse, it can blur the entire matrix for all souls wanting to progress by the school of hard knocks.

Edited by SSilhouette, 24 October 2013 - 05:14 PM.


#21    SSilhouette

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:01 PM

View PostKatya, on 17 July 2008 - 10:17 PM, said:

Interesting theory o: But I sometimes act like a guy, and I'm a straight female, so maybe it also has to do with the hardwiring in their brains. Like why some people have feet fetishes - the wiring for sex and feet is connected somehow in their heads...

But it might be a possibility for some people x3

The "hardwiring" for any fetish is a learned molding of the brain AFTER birth.  It is done through classical conditioning [google it].  Pairing the first few orgasms with [insert environment/item/behavior/partner type here] pairing "pleasure" with "object/scenario/person type" = what people perceive as "an inborn sexual orientation".  It isn't inborn.  The animal industry has been artificially imposing abnormal sexual orientations on animals, that thereafter are habitual for them, for centuries now.  It's done mainly to collect semen to preserve zoo species endangered or in the meat industry.  The observations of behaviors that apply on any mammal, including humans, is that concretely, sexual orientation can be very easily imprinted just around the time of puberty.  I can train a dog, horse, bull or pig to become sexually aroused at the sight of a bulldozer, a postage stamp or the same gender if I so choose.  Been done for centuries.  After that, those animals will reflexively become aroused at those items.

Returning back to the last post I wrote, humans learn socially.  So the introduction of homosexuality as "normal" into the matrix is a very dangerous proposition.  It is the assurance that into the future the matrix and chance for progression will be blurred and hopelessly compromised.  Homosexuals will always exist by just random imprinting.  However, they should always be seen as an anomoly and not a normality.  Have compassion for the wayward but do not imitate them and emulate them.

It turns out that the dominant/aggressive features of male and submissive/passive features of female make the perfect balance to knock rough edges off a scaly soul.  I read with dismay that a person's gay male friends here are hard even to detect.  That's too bad.  It would be better if they stuck to what most gays do, having a dominant partner and submissive one, like in normal relationships.  Of course that means that one of them is hetero in the closet.  But that's still better than not being able to tell.  That "not being able to tell" is the end product of homogenizing the genders and then the matrix for learning simply *poof* disappears...

Edited by SSilhouette, 24 October 2013 - 05:11 PM.


#22    aimlesswalk

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:45 AM

No I don't agree with this at all and it comes across to me by explaining why some people are gay because of who they were in a past life as a way of justifying homosexuality when no justification is necessary and shouldn't particularly any pseudo spiritual explanations. I accept people are gay I don't presume it's because they were a different gender in a past life. Also I've never read anywhere that reincarnation is fixed to one gender.

Edited by aimlesswalk, 25 October 2013 - 11:47 AM.


#23    SSilhouette

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:37 PM

100s of millions of Hindus might disagree with you...


#24    aimlesswalk

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:45 PM

View PostSSilhouette, on 25 October 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

100s of millions of Hindus might disagree with you...

I'd rather go to Buddhism for an authority on reincarnation (and lots of other things as well).

Edited by aimlesswalk, 25 October 2013 - 09:46 PM.


#25    John from Lowell

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 12:37 PM

Hi,

I agree with the concept presented by the OP. That view is also essentially supported by the channeled Kryon material. When we switch genders from one incarnation to the next our psyche needs time to adjust its sexual inclinations.

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#26    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 01:00 PM

Effeminate gay men are that way because they are that way; I know some effeminate straight men too.  We all assume regular acting guys are straight, and can of course be wrong, but very rarely.  It seems to me there is some gay predominance among effeminate men, and so some connection, but it is by no means predictive.  One is a personality pattern, the other is of course simple sexual orientation.  Regular acting gay men nowadays do seem to outnumber effeminate acting gay men by a considerable margin; this may be a social or cultural business.

Transsexualism (being born in the wrong body) is something entirely different that to me at least testifies to the idea that gender identity and sexual orientation are not at all the same.

Our rebirth is set largely by our desires, so one assumes men will want to be reborn as men and women as women, with occasional exceptions.  That doesn't strike me as a complicated business.  One would expect that a gay person happy as they are would want a similar rebirth too.


#27    aimlesswalk

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 01:52 PM

If reincarnation is going to be brought into this then I think people willingly choose to reincarnate as homosexual to experience something equally as valid and no less important than heterosexuality and not because they were a different gender in a past life. Also not all homosexual men have effeminate traits which further undermines the notion that they were women in a past life. Surely if all homosexual men were females in a past life they would as well as being attracted to other men all retain female character traits. Also this idea says nothing at all about bi-sexuality or heterosexual men who like to act gay sometimes or think of themselves as being gay even though their probably not really and also want to be gay (like myself).

Edited by aimlesswalk, 26 October 2013 - 02:31 PM.


#28    SSilhouette

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:07 PM

A man trying to reproduce with another man's lower digestive tract is not an "equally valid" form of sexuality.  Many many many people disagree with that.  Billions disagree actually, worldwide.  It is an aberrent behavior.  Bulimia is an aberrent behavior.  Like homosexuality, the choice to practice it as an "eating orientation" hurts nobody but the practitioners.  Shall we mainstream that too in the interest of "personal liberty in aberrent body functions"?  Why not, specifically?

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 October 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

Effeminate gay men are that way because they are that way; I know some effeminate straight men too.  We all assume regular acting guys are straight, and can of course be wrong, but very rarely.  It seems to me there is some gay predominance among effeminate men, and so some connection, but it is by no means predictive.  One is a personality pattern, the other is of course simple sexual orientation.  Regular acting gay men nowadays do seem to outnumber effeminate acting gay men by a considerable margin; this may be a social or cultural business.

Transsexualism (being born in the wrong body) is something entirely different that to me at least testifies to the idea that gender identity and sexual orientation are not at all the same.

Our rebirth is set largely by our desires, so one assumes men will want to be reborn as men and women as women, with occasional exceptions.  That doesn't strike me as a complicated business.  One would expect that a gay person happy as they are would want a similar rebirth too.

All that you've said points to "gay" being a learned trait.  Take basic psychology and find out.  Saying people behave a certain way "because they are that way" completely dismisses the entire field of behavioral psychology as some sort of parlor game; not even worthy of a passing mention.  This might come as a surprise to those who dedicated 8-10 years of schooling to acquire a doctorate and then found repeated observable phenomenon over a 20-30 year career period.  Imagine their diagnosis of a patient, "you are that way because you are that way...that will be $3,000 please"....lol..

The point isn't whether one wants to be born to find happiness.  The point is that people are born to do work: the work of changing old, bad habits.  Of knocking rough spots off their person.  Sure, you should try to be happy as you do the spiritual work; just not flabby.  Choosing a life you were comfy with before means wasted time.  From my readings of near death experiences, when a person is told by the spirits they encounter to return to their body, it's always followed by the statement "because you have work to do still".  What's said then is not "because we want you to return to a life of sloth and play/indulgences you're familiar with".

Chopping off healthy organs and body parts to play act at the opposite gender is a frank, obvious and startling sign of deep mental illness and a refusal to cope with reality as it is.  No transsexual is ever successful changing genders.  They always wind up as a freak show, often twice as depressed as they were before because now not only do they have mental problems, but they often struggle with incontinence [they completely butcher the urinary tract and nerves in that area] and no sexual feelings anymore.  The hippocratic oath means no doctor shall do harm.  To amputate body parts preferential to deep regressive therapy is a gross misuse of a MD's license.  It is in fact malpractice defined.

Edited by SSilhouette, 27 October 2013 - 06:18 PM.


#29    kmt_sesh

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 02:16 AM

View PostSSilhouette, on 27 October 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

A man trying to reproduce with another man's lower digestive tract is not an "equally valid" form of sexuality.  Many many many people disagree with that.  Billions disagree actually, worldwide.  It is an aberrent behavior.  Bulimia is an aberrent behavior.  Like homosexuality, the choice to practice it as an "eating orientation" hurts nobody but the practitioners.  Shall we mainstream that too in the interest of "personal liberty in aberrent body functions"?  Why not, specifically?

And this is, evidently, where you show your true colors. One's personal judgement is irrelevant in the wider scope of things, but "billions" also don't really have an issue with homosexuality—for the simple reason that many folks have evolved beyond this mindset. The obvious understanding is that homosexuality is no more a "choice" than heterosexuality is. Homosexuality is not a disorder any more than one should think of heterosexuality as a disorder. No "choice" is involved. It seems pretty clear to me you don't truly know any gay people.

Nor do you fully seem to understand the psychological mechanics of sexuality in Homo sapiens. While sex evolved in higher animals for the sake of reproduction, sex has become much more than just a reproductive mandate for people. Sex is one of the most powerful means to express emotion.

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#30    SSilhouette

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 05:45 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 28 October 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

And this is, evidently, where you show your true colors. One's personal judgement is irrelevant in the wider scope of things, but "billions" also don't really have an issue with homosexuality—for the simple reason that many folks have evolved beyond this mindset. The obvious understanding is that homosexuality is no more a "choice" than heterosexuality is. Homosexuality is not a disorder any more than one should think of heterosexuality as a disorder. No "choice" is involved. It seems pretty clear to me you don't truly know any gay people.

Nor do you fully seem to understand the psychological mechanics of sexuality in Homo sapiens. While sex evolved in higher animals for the sake of reproduction, sex has become much more than just a reproductive mandate for people. Sex is one of the most powerful means to express emotion.

No, not personal judgment: Observation.  Simple observation.  I've watched dozens of animals be artificially oriented sexually on purpose.  Thereafter they reflexively become aroused at whatever item was paired with their first few orgasms.  Classical conditioning is one of the founding principles of psychology.  You may have heard of it.

Not to mention the dozens of journals I've read on training animals for artificial insemination practices.  The practice applies to any warm blooded mammal.  ie: it works on all species without exception.  Including homo sapiens.  So the roots of homosexuality are behavioral.  No species has evolved to try to practice making babies with the same gender as an evolutionary hardwired trait.  Sorry.  Science, hard science and not mere opinions are the source of my position and the position of rational people when it comes to homosexuality and other strange fetish orientations.  All can easily be explained by classical conditioning.  I had a stallion that used to become aroused at the sight of red halters.  Why?  Because when he was being trained AI, they used a red halter.  Pretty simple stuff.

Edited by SSilhouette, 28 October 2013 - 05:46 PM.





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